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      07-29-2014, 03:27 PM   #1
tke344
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25W HID for Angel Eyes?

I know there's quite a few threads already about putting HIDs into the angel eyes. Most of the concerns had to do with poor quality bulbs yellowing the rings and the excessive lumens blinding other drivers at night. I was researching 25w HID Kits and found that they should put out around 1700-2000 lumens depending on color temp, compared to ~3000 for a 35w kit.

I was thinking about buying this kit but the only thing holding me up is coding the errors out.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JH6LYWQ?...=UTF8&psc=1&s=

I just ordered a bluetooth obd2 adapter for use with the BMWhat app, I think the newest version can code bulb checks but I'm not sure if it can turn off the fade in and dimming. Even if I get errors I should be able to get an idea of what they'll look like at night. If the results are good I'd probably replace the bulbs with Morimoto's that have proper UV filtering just to be safe.

Has anyone tried this before with 25w ballasts? I'd love to hear some experiences.
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      07-31-2014, 01:22 AM   #2
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I don't believe the issue is 'cheap bulbs' but heat. Heat essentially is burning the rings.
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      07-31-2014, 06:54 AM   #3
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Played around with the BMWhat App last night, I was able to turn off soft illumination of the angel eyes and the bulb checks. Some of the translation isn't perfect but it appears I was also able to turn off angel eye dimming with the headlights. (I believe it was listed as brightness with standing lights?) Either way, visually it seems to have worked. I believe the same option allowed you to turn them off completely when the headlights are on.

I'm going to go ahead and order the kit I linked in the first post, for 1/3 the price of a high end plug and play LED setup I believe its worth a try. I don't expect heat to be too much of a concern at 25w. The big thread on the topic shows quite a few people running 35w ballasts without issue. My main concern was excessive glare at night. If all goes well I'll put in Morimoto bulbs, I'll feel much more comfortable with those in the long term.
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      07-31-2014, 12:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tke344 View Post
Played around with the BMWhat App last night, I was able to turn off soft illumination of the angel eyes and the bulb checks. Some of the translation isn't perfect but it appears I was also able to turn off angel eye dimming with the headlights. (I believe it was listed as brightness with standing lights?) Either way, visually it seems to have worked. I believe the same option allowed you to turn them off completely when the headlights are on.

I'm going to go ahead and order the kit I linked in the first post, for 1/3 the price of a high end plug and play LED setup I believe its worth a try. I don't expect heat to be too much of a concern at 25w. The big thread on the topic shows quite a few people running 35w ballasts without issue. My main concern was excessive glare at night. If all goes well I'll put in Morimoto bulbs, I'll feel much more comfortable with those in the long term.
the problem with HID bulbs is that they emit too much UV light, and that is what causes the burning of the inside of the headlight. I would contact the vedor of the bulb and have them provide you a spectral distribution graph of the light output. This will show you if it produces UV light, IR light, or any other wavelengths. Otherwise you dont know what will happen long term.

Halogen bulbs and LED's do not emit UV light so that is why they are safer
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      07-31-2014, 01:06 PM   #5
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the problem with HID bulbs is that they emit too much UV light, and that is what causes the burning of the inside of the headlight. I would contact the vedor of the bulb and have them provide you a spectral distribution graph of the light output. This will show you if it produces UV light, IR light, or any other wavelengths. Otherwise you dont know what will happen long term.

Halogen bulbs and LED's do not emit UV light so that is why they are safer
+1
and their color is not as clean ( greenish,yellowish )
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      07-31-2014, 02:24 PM   #6
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The bulbs from that kit will only be used for testing, assuming everything works as expected I do plan on replacing them for quality UV filtered bulbs. For 40$ its worth upgrading to the Morimoto bulbs, but overall it's not about the money. I thought it would be a fun little project to see how the 25w ballasts turn out. All the threads I ever read were from people using 35w ballasts and 3000 lumens in the angel eyes is distracting to other drivers (at night at least). ~1800-2000 should be perfect, seems to be just above the number that the newest LED PnP replacements are offering

I'm not sure I agree that the color of HID is "not as clean" as LED. Comparing identical kelvin temps from quality HID bulbs to LED should yield no discernable difference. I had a junk HID kit in a car 10 years ago when they first became popular in the aftermarket, supposed 5000k - those were greenish. Not so much of an issue anymore.

I do believe LED is the superior technology but for the guys who don't mind a bit of hacking, you can get pretty good results from HID. I would be interested in LED fog light replacements, lots of room for a big heatsink back there..
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      08-03-2014, 05:14 PM   #7
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Managed to get the install done this afternoon. Actually much easier to get the HID bulbs installed because of their small base, no giant heatsinks to contend with. I did run into a little trouble, they worked fine at all times except for when the engine was running and the headlight were on, nothing but a faint flicker. I wasn't getting a bulb out error because I coded them off, I think it had to do with a voltage drop. I had coded dimming off but seems that it didn't quite work. I was about ready to just install a relay harness but I tried a capacitor style error canceler and surprisingly it worked.

I'm very happy with the brightness, much more visible during the day than my "40w" LEDs. Definitely going to swap the bulbs for a lower kelvin temp though, their 6000k at 25w has too much blue for my taste. I think because the bulbs are running at lower wattage the color actually comes through more, I know the opposite is true when going to a 55w ballast, it washes out the color. I'll try and grab some pictures of the final result.
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      08-04-2014, 03:27 AM   #8
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Thanks for doing this, can you share some pics? How visible is it in direct sunlight?
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      08-04-2014, 08:43 AM   #9
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Thanks for doing this, can you share some pics? How visible is it in direct sunlight?
The rings are still uneven, inners being brighter obviously. Looking directly at the lights I'd say the inners are brighter than the e92 LCI halos and the outers are a bit less. Also depends on the angle of course but overall they're very noticeable. Like I said, I had 40w LEDs previously and these look to be putting out more than twice the light, probably closer to 3x. The 35w kits must be blinding.

I'll snap some pictures during lunch.

At night they were really impressive. Admittedly they probably are a little distracting, the inner ring is still defined, not a blob like some people described the 35w HID kits, but it could be mistaken for a high beam simply because its in the "inner" portion of the headlight where most standard high beams are in reflector housings. I would probably just code them to turn off with the headlights but for some reason that seems to also disable them as welcome lights, I'd rather not give that up. They did look less blue at night but I still went ahead and ordered 5000k Morimoto bulbs for a more OEM look. Plus they make my low beams and HID fogs (both 4300k) appear very yellow. I might swap those out later for 5000k fogs and Osram CBI's for the projectors for a uniform look. Besides the color temp I'm very happy with the results.
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      08-04-2014, 10:29 AM   #10
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Like I said, bit too much blue... This is direct sunlight
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      08-04-2014, 01:10 PM   #11
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Couple more pictures.. taken ~1:30pm on a very bright sunny day. They're not great but do give you an idea
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      08-04-2014, 01:27 PM   #12
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Thanks, its not bad, or about as good as it will look with the design of angel eyes we have on our cars. This looks like a viable option for those of us unwilling to upgrade to OSS.
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      08-04-2014, 02:17 PM   #13
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Yeah, I honestly think it's about as good as it'll get.. pumping any more light through those rings would just be a waste, seems to me the rings just get more and more uneven as lumens go up.
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      08-07-2014, 05:11 PM   #14
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we would caution against installing HID angel eyes, its the most effective way to burn out your angel eyes and headlights as well , $1500 and up

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      08-07-2014, 09:51 PM   #15
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When you say "burn out" .. Halogen is known to emit more radiant heat, particularly when comparing 35w H8 halogen bulbs to 25w HID bulbs. If you were referring to UV radiation causing the discoloration, a quality UV shielded bulb should alleviate any concern. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure what's left that is going to destroy my headlights.

I agree LED is the superior technology, and I will switch back once the plug and play LEDs have caught up (its getting close no doubt).
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      08-08-2014, 04:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tke344 View Post
When you say "burn out" .. Halogen is known to emit more radiant heat, particularly when comparing 35w H8 halogen bulbs to 25w HID bulbs. If you were referring to UV radiation causing the discoloration, a quality UV shielded bulb should alleviate any concern. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure what's left that is going to destroy my headlights.

I agree LED is the superior technology, and I will switch back once the plug and play LEDs have caught up (its getting close no doubt).
its already close enough in fact by now, as we mentioned earlier, the quickest and most efficient way to have multiple issues is to just install HID angel eyes, it radiates too much heat for a reason.... (angel eyes shot, OEM wiring shot, the list goes on...)
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      08-09-2014, 11:09 AM   #17
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we would caution against installing HID angel eyes, its the most effective way to burn out your angel eyes and headlights as well , $1500 and up

Classic! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this same non-sense and picture posted by this same LED vendor.
Definitely some fear tactics being put out there, since HID is a real viable option and threatens their business.
Truth is:
1. HID bulbs put out less, not more heat (IR wavelength light), as compared to factory halogens.
2. HID bulbs put out more visible wavelength light (therefore brighter, which is necessary due to the white color)
3. HID bulbs can put out more ultra-violet light, which can damage lights. This can be mitigated by not using cheap HID bulbs without UV filtering. I recommend using Morimoto, though cost is high.
There’s just simply no way that HIDs can produce more heat, while both visible and UV light are higher and the total output has to match the 35 watts going IN, which is the same as the stock halogens!
Note: I’m running 35 watt HIDs for 6 months with zero yellowing or ANY issues. I’m certain you will be fine with 25 watt set-up if you replace your bulbs as you mentioned.
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      08-09-2014, 04:07 PM   #18
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Classic! I canít tell you how many times Iíve seen this same non-sense and picture posted by this same LED vendor.
Definitely some fear tactics being put out there, since HID is a real viable option and threatens their business.
Truth is:
1. HID bulbs put out less, not more heat (IR wavelength light), as compared to factory halogens.
2. HID bulbs put out more visible wavelength light (therefore brighter, which is necessary due to the white color)
3. HID bulbs can put out more ultra-violet light, which can damage lights. This can be mitigated by not using cheap HID bulbs without UV filtering. I recommend using Morimoto, though cost is high.
Thereís just simply no way that HIDs can produce more heat, while both visible and UV light are higher and the total output has to match the 35 watts going IN, which is the same as the stock halogens!
Note: Iím running 35 watt HIDs for 6 months with zero yellowing or ANY issues. Iím certain you will be fine with 25 watt set-up if you replace your bulbs as you mentioned.

My Morimoto bulbs should be here Monday.. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "burnt" rings are from mis-aligned halogens, if they're not in straight which is pretty easy to do given how little room you have then the heat will be closer to the plastic.. I've seen it happen in a regular reflector headlight housing, the bulb wasn't locked in and it melted the opening.

I'll post some pictures when I get the 5000k bulbs in, the 6000k looks cheap IMO.
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      08-09-2014, 06:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maymay07 View Post
Classic! I canít tell you how many times Iíve seen this same non-sense and picture posted by this same LED vendor.
Definitely some fear tactics being put out there, since HID is a real viable option and threatens their business.
Truth is:
1. HID bulbs put out less, not more heat (IR wavelength light), as compared to factory halogens.
2. HID bulbs put out more visible wavelength light (therefore brighter, which is necessary due to the white color)
3. HID bulbs can put out more ultra-violet light, which can damage lights. This can be mitigated by not using cheap HID bulbs without UV filtering. I recommend using Morimoto, though cost is high.
Thereís just simply no way that HIDs can produce more heat, while both visible and UV light are higher and the total output has to match the 35 watts going IN, which is the same as the stock halogens!
Note: Iím running 35 watt HIDs for 6 months with zero yellowing or ANY issues. Iím certain you will be fine with 25 watt set-up if you replace your bulbs as you mentioned.
truth hurts, doesnt it? pictures say about a thousand words if not more, if HID angel eyes were so great quality as you claim, we would probably already be manufacturing it years ago.
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      08-10-2014, 11:21 PM   #20
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truth hurts, doesnt it? pictures say about a thousand words if not more, if HID angel eyes were so great quality as you claim, we would probably already be manufacturing it years ago.
With all due respect, your opinion is just that an opinion, you didn't provide any argument against what the Op is going to try. So why does a high quality UV tinted hid bulb pose more of a threat to damage the headlight than the stock halogen bulb? Do you have any facts? Or are you just disparaging what the Op is doing because it could become a threat to your business? Can you source the image and provide a synopsis of what happened there?
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      08-12-2014, 10:57 AM   #21
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Awesome, I'm glad to see you guys are not getting scared off and trying new things based on real data!
I'm also very ineterested to see the pics with new bulbs, it seems like they may be a bit brighter as well as whiter in color.

One question on your HID install (or for anyone doing HID AEs) - Did you drill holes in your light housing covers to route the HID wiring to the bulbs?

That is the intent of the kit I used, but I found that in my case (E90), the wires can be passed through the soft rubber of the cover seal, and so I just cut off the rubber grommets from the wiring and routed them that way. It's one less place to potentially leak moisture and the cover fits snug around the wires.

Attached is pic of the passenger side cover with 4 wires passing through (2 wires power to HID lamp, 2 wires signal to drive the relay). It was pretty hard to install the cover but can be done. The drivers side is very easy since it only has 2 wires to the bulb.
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      08-12-2014, 11:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Awesome, I'm glad to see you guys are not getting scared off and trying new things based on real data!
I'm also very ineterested to see the pics with new bulbs, it seems like they may be a bit brighter as well as whiter in color.

One question on your HID install (or for anyone doing HID AEs) - Did you drill holes in your light housing covers to route the HID wiring to the bulbs?

That is the intent of the kit I used, but I found that in my case (E90), the wires can be passed through the soft rubber of the cover seal, and so I just cut off the rubber grommets from the wiring and routed them that way. It's one less place to potentially leak moisture and the cover fits snug around the wires.

Attached is pic of the passenger side cover with 4 wires passing through (2 wires power to HID lamp, 2 wires signal to drive the relay). It was pretty hard to install the cover but can be done. The drivers side is very easy since it only has 2 wires to the bulb.
Just looking at that pic i would be worried about water getting in there. The seal on those is pretty small from the pic it doesnt look like it would seal up correctly. As a test you might want to put a few drops of water over it and see what happens. Last thing you want is to be driving in a rain storm and get a lot of water in there.
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