E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede running very lean



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-24-2013, 08:41 PM   #1
tcw
Captain
13
Rep
728
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Arrow Procede running very lean

So I recently went from JB4 to Procede. I am full bolt-on so I am running the Stage 3 Aggressive 9-23 map. I am running very lean (~20:1) on WOT runs with maxed fuel trims. I have progressively upped the global OL setting which helped (originally maxed AFR) but still have very lean AFR's. Can anyone tell me why and how I can resolve this? These are on map 1.

Settings window (I changed the OL on each of the datalogs):


OL100:



OL:85
__________________
2008 335I E92, AW, VFF700, 18" Forgestar F14, M3 front/side, M-tech rear, AMS IC, H&R Touring Cup Kit suspension, HID AE, ER Charge Pipe & Synapse BOV, CIC Retrofit, Quafie, DSS, Defiv Lockdown, SPEC 2+/Steel SMFW, Walbro 450

Last edited by tcw; 01-24-2013 at 08:47 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 01:45 AM   #2
JMARS
Not Baned
Brazil
21
Rep
1,287
Posts

 
Drives: Single-T WTCC e90
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boca Raton, FL

iTrader: (5)

Send logs to Shiv and he should be able to help you determine what's going on.
__________________
Motiv-900 HTA3794R Tial 1.03 A/R | Motiv PI | Motiv/Fuel-IT! Stg3+ LPFP | Motiv Cobb AEM EMS | DSS Carbon Drive Shaft | Spec SuperTwin-disc
**** Front Mount | **** Charge Pipe | **** Oil Cooler | JRZ Coilover | ECS Performance Rear Trailing Arm | UUC Tans Mount | Full M3 Suspension | Brembo 6-Piston/Brembo 4-Piston | AR Line Lock | 5 Point Welded in Cage | BMW Performance Steering Wheel/SSK/Boot/E-Brake
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 02:00 AM   #3
jippii ensio
Major
13
Rep
1,229
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

iTrader: (0)

Are you running 100% E85 or something?
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 08:41 AM   #4
Ilma
Colonel
29
Rep
2,576
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hometown

iTrader: (0)

That seems unusual to be running out of fuel and maxing trims at only 14 psi of boost.

You should log fuel trims for bank 2 as well as bank 1 to see if they are both maxing out.

This will help rule out a faulty injector in bank 1 causing this issue.


You can also try increasing the cell values for open loop fueling in the user adjustable table.

Here is what I changed mine too:
.
.
.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Sticky is an idiot
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 08:57 AM   #5
jippii ensio
Major
13
Rep
1,229
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

iTrader: (0)

+1 for looking at both of the banks. If only one is running lean, you could have accidentally swapped the o2 sensors in your DPs. Or as Ilma said, you could have a bad injector.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 09:19 AM   #6
themyst
Major General
themyst's Avatar
South Korea
86
Rep
6,602
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335i LCI
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (8)

Send a message via AIM to themyst
Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
+1 for looking at both of the banks. If only one is running lean, you could have accidentally swapped the o2 sensors in your DPs. Or as Ilma said, you could have a bad injector.
If he swapped front o2 sensors his car would be undrivable. If he swapped rear o2 sensors it would throw an SES light along with a code for swapped sensors, but would not affect trims the way the OP is seeing. He also did not appear to have these issues with his old JB4, which rules out hardware.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 10:02 AM   #7
tcw
Captain
13
Rep
728
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMARS View Post
Send logs to Shiv and he should be able to help you determine what's going on.
I sent datalogs in this past Saturday, haven't heard back yet. I will try calling today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Are you running 100% E85 or something?
I am running 93 octane gas, no E85 local to me unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma View Post
That seems unusual to be running out of fuel and maxing trims at only 14 psi of boost.

You should log fuel trims for bank 2 as well as bank 1 to see if they are both maxing out.

This will help rule out a faulty injector in bank 1 causing this issue.


You can also try increasing the cell values for open loop fueling in the user adjustable table.

Here is what I changed mine too:
.
.
.
I am logging both banks, they are just overlaying one another (you can see the blue and black line to the left before they both max out). The car ran fine before installing the procede (I was JB4 then JB4/meth, but no meth now). I also don't want to change the map yet as I feel that there must be something causing this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
+1 for looking at both of the banks. If only one is running lean, you could have accidentally swapped the o2 sensors in your DPs. Or as Ilma said, you could have a bad injector.
Both are logged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
If he swapped front o2 sensors his car would be undrivable. If he swapped rear o2 sensors it would throw an SES light along with a code for swapped sensors, but would not affect trims the way the OP is seeing. He also did not appear to have these issues with his old JB4, which rules out hardware.
Right, the downpipes have been installed over a year with no issues.
__________________
2008 335I E92, AW, VFF700, 18" Forgestar F14, M3 front/side, M-tech rear, AMS IC, H&R Touring Cup Kit suspension, HID AE, ER Charge Pipe & Synapse BOV, CIC Retrofit, Quafie, DSS, Defiv Lockdown, SPEC 2+/Steel SMFW, Walbro 450
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 10:10 AM   #8
Joshboody
Lieutenant Colonel
25
Rep
1,708
Posts

 
Drives: pickemuptruck
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ

iTrader: (7)

Looks like both trims/AFR were logged and matching well. This seems to be a fuel pump issue. I don't remember the logging options in procede for fuel pressure, but you can use BT tool to see if you are short of target.

I believe HPFP would be more likely to throw a code... LPFP can easily be short of target without throwing a code. So if you wanted to "try" something, LPFP would be my guess.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 10:20 AM   #9
themyst
Major General
themyst's Avatar
South Korea
86
Rep
6,602
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335i LCI
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (8)

Send a message via AIM to themyst
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshboody View Post
Looks like both trims/AFR were logged and matching well. This seems to be a fuel pump issue. I don't remember the logging options in procede for fuel pressure, but you can use BT tool to see if you are short of target.

I believe HPFP would be more likely to throw a code... LPFP can easily be short of target without throwing a code. So if you wanted to "try" something, LPFP would be my guess.
He can log fuel pressure to confirm. If voltage is between 4.0 and 4.3 its operating normally.

Like he said he did not have any issues with the JB4. this is tune related.
__________________
E90 LCI N54 6AT
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 10:43 AM   #10
Jeller
Lieutenant
United_States
5
Rep
497
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335i E90 ZSP
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Buffalo NY

iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Jeller
Debug Byte 4 (LPFP voltage output) You can check on this one too, see if its dropping below 2V.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 11:13 AM   #11
tcw
Captain
13
Rep
728
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshboody View Post
Looks like both trims/AFR were logged and matching well. This seems to be a fuel pump issue. I don't remember the logging options in procede for fuel pressure, but you can use BT tool to see if you are short of target.

I believe HPFP would be more likely to throw a code... LPFP can easily be short of target without throwing a code. So if you wanted to "try" something, LPFP would be my guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
He can log fuel pressure to confirm. If voltage is between 4.0 and 4.3 its operating normally.

Like he said he did not have any issues with the JB4. this is tune related.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeller View Post
Debug Byte 4 (LPFP voltage output) You can check on this one too, see if its dropping below 2V.

Thanks for the input guys, I will try this when I leave school today. Called (voicemail) and emailed vishnu again so hopefully they will have some good information too.
__________________
2008 335I E92, AW, VFF700, 18" Forgestar F14, M3 front/side, M-tech rear, AMS IC, H&R Touring Cup Kit suspension, HID AE, ER Charge Pipe & Synapse BOV, CIC Retrofit, Quafie, DSS, Defiv Lockdown, SPEC 2+/Steel SMFW, Walbro 450
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 11:15 AM   #12
diddlkiss
Second Lieutenant
China
3
Rep
247
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 335i E90 Lci N54
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tsingtao

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma View Post
That seems unusual to be running out of fuel and maxing trims at only 14 psi of boost.

You should log fuel trims for bank 2 as well as bank 1 to see if they are both maxing out.

This will help rule out a faulty injector in bank 1 causing this issue.


You can also try increasing the cell values for open loop fueling in the user adjustable table.

Here is what I changed mine too:
.
.
.
when I run your map,I got 10738 and 10722 codes,its looke like a hpfp,but my hpfp is the new pump,the parts codes is 13517616170,
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 01:23 PM   #13
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
244
Rep
18,382
Posts


 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (32)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcw View Post
Thanks for the input guys, I will try this when I leave school today. Called (voicemail) and emailed vishnu again so hopefully they will have some good information too.
If you called today you called to early. They are based out of California.

Call them after 11 AM PST. Best way to contact Vishnu is by phone. They are flooded with too many emails.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 06:20 PM   #14
tcw
Captain
13
Rep
728
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Talked to Vishnu today. They told me Shiv thinks it is either the injectors or stock DME flash and to see how it does after I get the reflash and install the VFF700 kit next weekend. FWIW I had the injector recall before and they checked the injectors and replaced one bank. So we will see how it does after I install the VFF700 with the DME flash.

Although I think something is amiss somewhere with max fuel trims on pump gas at this low boost, but we will see. I also was not able to log that LPFP voltage as it snowed and I had to leave my car at my school parking deck. I'll report back the LPFP diagnosis hopefully tomorrow.

On a more positive note, my Kosei K1's and Hoosiers arrived today. Should have some drag times March 23rd when the track opens and some dyno numbers sooner.
__________________
2008 335I E92, AW, VFF700, 18" Forgestar F14, M3 front/side, M-tech rear, AMS IC, H&R Touring Cup Kit suspension, HID AE, ER Charge Pipe & Synapse BOV, CIC Retrofit, Quafie, DSS, Defiv Lockdown, SPEC 2+/Steel SMFW, Walbro 450
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 06:30 AM   #15
marconi118
Captain
10
Rep
968
Posts

 
Drives: 06/07 e93 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: europe

iTrader: (0)

i am in the same boat, maxing out fuel trims from 11pss with procede agressive

both lpfp and hpfp pressures are fine
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 08:43 AM   #16
Jeller
Lieutenant
United_States
5
Rep
497
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335i E90 ZSP
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Buffalo NY

iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Jeller
Do you have the same issues if you run the previous auto tuning maps?

And have you gotten or thought about the procedeflash?
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 09:23 AM   #17
BigBoosting
First Lieutenant
5
Rep
356
Posts

 
Drives: 09' M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Savannah

iTrader: (2)

Dont simply assume the Procede flash will solve your problems. I thought the same and when the flash came back I had new problems that Vishnu refused to acknowledge.

Wouldn't return my phone calls or emails. Its been 2 months and I'm still waiting on my "Guaranteed he will get to you this time" reply from Shiv himself.

If you don't live near them I would stay away from the flash option. It is impossible to get any help otherwise, even when they make a mistake.

My car is now totaled (thanks to a dump truck losing its cargo on the interstate) so my muffed DME is in the junkyard where it now belongs.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 02:52 PM   #18
cn555ic
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
cn555ic's Avatar
United_States
246
Rep
18,287
Posts


 
Drives: Bimmerscoding.com
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (5)

Send a message via Yahoo to cn555ic
Bro. Why not just go back to jb4 and see if it still leans out that bad.
__________________
917-939-4980 CODING E and F Series New York Area

Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 06:57 PM   #19
tcw
Captain
13
Rep
728
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cn555ic View Post
Bro. Why not just go back to jb4 and see if it still leans out that bad.
Putting on a VFF700 kit next weekend.

Well I did another datalog with 3 different fuel pressure parameters logged. Also my old logs had debug type 4 already logged as well so that is included as well.





My OL fuel map:
__________________
2008 335I E92, AW, VFF700, 18" Forgestar F14, M3 front/side, M-tech rear, AMS IC, H&R Touring Cup Kit suspension, HID AE, ER Charge Pipe & Synapse BOV, CIC Retrofit, Quafie, DSS, Defiv Lockdown, SPEC 2+/Steel SMFW, Walbro 450
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 08:15 PM   #20
sickem
Freude am fahren
sickem's Avatar
25
Rep
1,948
Posts

 
Drives: in the fast lane
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: People's Republic of New Jersey

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
^^Now that is a literal definition of screenshot! LOL. I have a similar issue...maxing out fuel trims at 14 psi on pump gas, also throwing 29E0/1 fuel mixture codes, which I presume are related. But my car throws these codes even on stock tune. Called VAC to see if they can help me, but they havent called me back..,pretty disappointed, actually.
__________________
Cobb E40 PROtune by Jake@PTF/RR catless DPs/aFe DCI/ETS 5" FMIC/ER CP/Forge DVs/Alpina B3 TCU flash/BMW Perf. Exhaust./BMW Performance Style 313s/M-Tech Rear
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 11:04 PM   #21
jpsimon
Team Zissou
jpsimon's Avatar
United_States
164
Rep
9,017
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 STi
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT

iTrader: (6)

TCW, shoot me your email address i'll send you what works great on my car. Couldn't hurt to try. the 4-23 aggressive map has never faulted me.
__________________
2015 STi / 335xi (solid)
www.datazap.me - fast, free, interactive data log viewing

Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 08:42 AM   #22
diddlkiss
Second Lieutenant
China
3
Rep
247
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 335i E90 Lci N54
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tsingtao

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
TCW, shoot me your email address i'll send you what works great on my car. Couldn't hurt to try. the 4-23 aggressive map has never faulted me.
I want your maps also.

thanks so much!!
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:45 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST