E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > N54 (335is) MT Gear Grind - Cold Weather?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-29-2013, 10:36 AM   #23
ajeffrey
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2011 335is sapphire black
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco, Ca

Posts: 38
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335is  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
Really? Really?
I've owned numerous MT cars and this is the first one in which I've ever experienced such a problem.

My 1987 911 still shifts like silk every time....
__________________

2011 335is Sapphire Black/Black
6sp MT 269-style 19" rims
Convenience/Cold Weather/Premium/HK Sound/iPod
ajeffrey is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 12:05 PM   #24
335BBS
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2009 335 coupe.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Posts: 3,607
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajeffrey View Post
I've owned numerous MT cars and this is the first one in which I've ever experienced such a problem.

My 1987 911 still shifts like silk every time....
They don't care because DCT is so popular?? Interesting. They have slow synchros in 1-2 shift. I bet they can fix it. I'd NEVER buy another one. That will show them.
335BBS is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 01:24 PM   #25
bbarker
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2012 335is
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern VA

Posts: 45
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
They don't care because DCT is so popular?? Interesting. They have slow synchros in 1-2 shift. I bet they can fix it. I'd NEVER buy another one. That will show them.
The dealership here in Virginia told me it's very difficult to test drive/find a brand new MT on the lot. DCT/Autos are so popular in the US that BMW ships over very few (if any) MT vehicles to sit on the new lots.

I guess Americans like the autos!
bbarker is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 02:33 PM   #26
335BBS
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2009 335 coupe.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Posts: 3,607
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbeemer View Post
The dealership here in Virginia told me it's very difficult to test drive/find a brand new MT on the lot. DCT/Autos are so popular in the US that BMW ships over very few (if any) MT vehicles to sit on the new lots.

I guess Americans like the autos!
I think you are correct. I was being sarcastic. I find it a little hard to believe that the transmission manufacturers would decide to screw up manual tannys now that DCT is more popular. Zero logic. fyi BMW doesnt make them.
335BBS is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 02:37 PM   #27
smallseafishie
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: AW 07 e92 335i + AW 11 X5 35d
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta GA

Posts: 1,699
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2007 E92 335i  [0.00]
My e30 and e92 both grind into second on the first shift when freezing cold. I just double clutch on my very first shift into second.
smallseafishie is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 02:44 PM   #28
Envuks
Captain
 
Envuks's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 e92 335xi
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MA

Posts: 718
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKizzle
6MT 335is with 20K miles here.

1 to 2 shifts are sometimes a bit notchy, but have not experienced any grinding. There have been a few times during cold starts that it actually feels so tight to get into 1st gear, that I just engage 2nd move it slightly and shift back to 1st. The notchy shifts are common on my E36 M3 as well, but I feel that the short shifter in the 335is exaggerates the shift effort required a bit.
I have the same experience as listed here. Never any grinding at all, but first is sometimes difficult to engage from a stop after a cold start. I generally give a little gas in neutral, wait for rpms to drop, then re-engage. Works every time.
__________________
Jet black e92 6mt 335xi:

18" BBS RGRs, KW v1, ESS Stage 2 flash, VRSF 7" FMIC, VRSF downpipes, JG Mods m-tech front, mtec V3 AEs, BMS OCC, hardwired valentine 1, p3cars gauge, amber delete, sport seats, factory oil cooler.
Envuks is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 02:44 PM   #29
asus389
Lieutenant
 
asus389's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 E90 325i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan

Posts: 467
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW 325i  [0.00]
I don't get grinding but the 1-2 shift is very notchy when I first start out. It's worse when it's cold outside. I also sometimes have trouble getting the car into first gear. Double clutching sometimes helps as does letting the car roll. I have been stuck at a light with people honking at me because I can't get into 1st on occasion.

I have I say, I'm not super impressed with this BMW MT. I had a VW/Audi MT before this and it was very smooth. The clutch grabbed much harder and it was generally easier to start in first gear. I find myself babying the BMW for fear of wrecking the gearbox because I the first gear grab is so subtle.

Last edited by asus389; 01-29-2013 at 03:58 PM.
asus389 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 02:49 PM   #30
Potty_Pants
Colonel
 
Potty_Pants's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Genesis Sedan Rspec
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southern NJ

Posts: 2,191
iTrader: (0)

same problem for my car...

I didnt want to sell it privately for this very same reason.

I didnt get an opportunity to try a gear oil change... but you may want to consider that.

ppp
__________________
Olds Starfire > Chevy Malibu > Isuzu I-mark RS & Honda Magna 500 > Grand Am GT & YSR50 > Nissan Maxima & Ninja 750 > X-Wife > Hyundai Excel > Honda Prelude > Honda Accord > Honda Prelude & Ninja 250> Infiniti G35 > E90 335i > Hyundai Genesis Rspec, Hyunadai Sonata > Kia Sorento > Honda CRV-EX
Potty_Pants is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 04:16 PM   #31
335BBS
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2009 335 coupe.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Posts: 3,607
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by asus389 View Post
I don't get grinding but the 1-2 shift is very notchy when I first start out. It's worse when it's cold outside. I also sometimes have trouble getting the car into first gear. Double clutching sometimes helps as does letting the car roll. I have been stuck at a light with people honking at me because I can't get into 1st on occasion.

I have I say, I'm not super impressed with this BMW MT. I had a VW/Audi MT before this and it was very smooth. The clutch grabbed much harder and it was generally easier to start in first gear. I find myself babying the BMW for fear of wrecking the gearbox because I the first gear grab is so subtle.
When stopped put it in third for a couple of seconds then go to first. Should be smooth.
335BBS is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 04:37 PM   #32
romanonj
Captain
 
romanonj's Avatar
 
Drives: X3 and 335is w/DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey, Ocean County

Posts: 778
iTrader: (12)

Issues described in this thread have nothing to do with quality of transmission, but simple oil viscosity physics. harder/grinding shifts are often experienced in colder temperatures prior to gear oil reaching its optimal operating temperature at which its flowing freely (as it is designed to operate at specific temps). try different gear oil with lower first number such as 75w-X instead of 90w-x, and let your car warm up for 5 min before driving it when it is below freezing. You will be extending the life of not only your transmission, but your engine as well..
__________________
2014 F25 X3 M-Sport Carbon Black, Technology/Premium/Winter/Driver Assistance
2011 e92 335is DCT - Cobb, ETS IC, AFE DCI, BMW PS kit, M3 control arms, various cosmetic improvements RETIRED!
2007 X3 RETIRED!
2006 e90 330i 132k miles RETIRED!
romanonj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 05:14 PM   #33
bbarker
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2012 335is
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern VA

Posts: 45
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by romanonj View Post
Issues described in this thread have nothing to do with quality of transmission, but simple oil viscosity physics. harder/grinding shifts are often experienced in colder temperatures prior to gear oil reaching its optimal operating temperature at which its flowing freely (as it is designed to operate at specific temps). try different gear oil with lower first number such as 75w-X instead of 90w-x, and let your car warm up for 5 min before driving it when it is below freezing. You will be extending the life of not only your transmission, but your engine as well..
So you're saying I purchased a $XX vehicle that can't handle temperature at or below 35 degrees? Am I asking/expecting too much?!

So for those of us that live in the Mid-Atlantic, or Northeast, or Northwest, etc. where we see these temperatures, your recommendation is to purchase new car and then immediately address the issue by spending money to change the fluids?
bbarker is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 05:16 PM   #34
ajeffrey
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2011 335is sapphire black
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco, Ca

Posts: 38
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335is  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by romanonj View Post
Issues described in this thread have nothing to do with quality of transmission, but simple oil viscosity physics. harder/grinding shifts are often experienced in colder temperatures prior to gear oil reaching its optimal operating temperature at which its flowing freely (as it is designed to operate at specific temps). try different gear oil with lower first number such as 75w-X instead of 90w-x, and let your car warm up for 5 min before driving it when it is below freezing. You will be extending the life of not only your transmission, but your engine as well..
Interesting observation. I'm not sure it entirely explains the issue considering that in SF we're talking about temps which are generally in the 50s-60s. That said, perhaps a different tranny fluid makes sense, at least to try it out.
__________________

2011 335is Sapphire Black/Black
6sp MT 269-style 19" rims
Convenience/Cold Weather/Premium/HK Sound/iPod
ajeffrey is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 06:06 PM   #35
elinstylez
Private First Class
 
Drives: N55 335xi e92 M-Sport 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SoCal

Posts: 149
iTrader: (2)

My 1-2 shifts are occasionally very notchy but I fairly frequently grind on my 2-3 shifts. I had the dealer drive my car and they said it was normal. They said so long as the dealer has a record of it they can address that issue later if the problem persists.
elinstylez is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 08:15 PM   #36
romanonj
Captain
 
romanonj's Avatar
 
Drives: X3 and 335is w/DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey, Ocean County

Posts: 778
iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbeemer View Post
So you're saying I purchased a $XX vehicle that can't handle temperature at or below 35 degrees? Am I asking/expecting too much?!

So for those of us that live in the Mid-Atlantic, or Northeast, or Northwest, etc. where we see these temperatures, your recommendation is to purchase new car and then immediately address the issue by spending money to change the fluids?
No Einstein, it is 5th grade physics.. Lubrication oil viscosity is affected during temp changes. There is a reason why it is recommended to choose your motor oil based on your ambient temperature.. In winter it is recommended to use lower first number (0w or 5w) where in warmer climates you can use 15w-50 as an example. First number illustrates the rate at which oil is flowing while it is cold at cooler than operating temp (usually tested while oil temps at 100 degrees or less). The lower the number is, the better the flow rate and lube characteristics. So in cold weather, there is a point where your engine is working without any (or little) lubrication due to poor flow rate. So it is important not to strain your engine until proper lubrication is achieved by letting it run without much stress. Same logic applies to transmission oil, things slide in or out better (gears etc) if lubricated . There are plenty of articles on the web where testing and oil classifications are well explained, even 5th grader would understand!!

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

So my point is if you are annoyed by this issue you can probably remedy it by changing the tranny fluid when seasons change.. Odds are your SA will tell you this is normal. If you look at my signature, I am also in NJ where winter temps can be in 20s.. So buying a 200k car won't solve cold temps and fluid characteristics..
__________________
2014 F25 X3 M-Sport Carbon Black, Technology/Premium/Winter/Driver Assistance
2011 e92 335is DCT - Cobb, ETS IC, AFE DCI, BMW PS kit, M3 control arms, various cosmetic improvements RETIRED!
2007 X3 RETIRED!
2006 e90 330i 132k miles RETIRED!

Last edited by romanonj; 01-29-2013 at 08:21 PM.
romanonj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 08:20 PM   #37
romanonj
Captain
 
romanonj's Avatar
 
Drives: X3 and 335is w/DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey, Ocean County

Posts: 778
iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajeffrey View Post
Interesting observation. I'm not sure it entirely explains the issue considering that in SF we're talking about temps which are generally in the 50s-60s. That said, perhaps a different tranny fluid makes sense, at least to try it out.
Tranny fluid is much thicker than motor oil, 50 degree temps make it flow slower than it is warmed up. There is an easy way to prove this theory, try warming your car to normal operating temperature and then driving it to see if the issue persists... I don't have MT, but as a general rule I always warm my cars up a few min in colder months. DCT is def happier once warmed up..
__________________
2014 F25 X3 M-Sport Carbon Black, Technology/Premium/Winter/Driver Assistance
2011 e92 335is DCT - Cobb, ETS IC, AFE DCI, BMW PS kit, M3 control arms, various cosmetic improvements RETIRED!
2007 X3 RETIRED!
2006 e90 330i 132k miles RETIRED!
romanonj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 10:10 PM   #38
07lilredwagon
Lieutenant
 
07lilredwagon's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 328 wagon
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New York

Posts: 525
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itchycow89 View Post
I had the same problem... I usually just double clutch the very first shift, works every time.
I was going to suggest the very same....should allow the revs from the motor to better synch with the tranny when going into that second gear...in other words, when you engage the clutch in neutral and give the engine a slight rev, it gets the tranny spinning...then try second gear.....

these cars should not grind gears. this is not normal. If the car has experienced "spirited shifting"...especially "banging" second...there are parts of the transmission that control the shifts that can get bent....if this happens....your gears will not engage fully.

With enough grinding....and it wont take much, you will damage the gear.

Not sure if cold hydraulic fluid could cause this...or slightly low hydraulic fluid....but I would get it checked out.

JP
07lilredwagon is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 10:15 PM   #39
psmitty95
Brigadier General
 
psmitty95's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E90 335i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Greenwich, CT

Posts: 3,579
iTrader: (8)

Are all of you sure it's not normal... I was under the impression that our cars just had an issue grinding 1-2 if you shifted too quick. Here's a few examples of why I have thought it was a normal thing...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442111

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=256988

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244898

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97129
__________________
< Click picture for photoshoot
E90 335i xDrive 6spd, Nav, Prem, Cold Weather, & Sports package - Msport Conversion
Mods: FBO + Meth JB4 ISO, BB flash, VRSF DP/FMIC, ER CP, Stett, SteveAZ LPFP & more
More Pictures: Build Thread /// Shop I use: Aci Dynamix 408AWHP/ 483AWTQ Uncorrected Mustang Dyno
psmitty95 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2013, 10:21 PM   #40
boris
Борис
 
boris's Avatar
 
Drives: POS 335i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: CT/NY

Posts: 412
iTrader: (0)

I too was troubled with this when I first picked up my 335i.

After driving around in a STi with every shift bushing available for it, I thought that shifting the 335i would be cake.

After the first couple cold mornings on the 1-2 grind, I'd get pissed.
Did some reading, did a couple experiments and testing of my own.


The first shift is crucial and is the only shift that will grind.

What I do now, is I shift slow when first getting the car rolling after it being warmed up. Just enough so the rpms don't drop too low when you engage into 2nd gear.

If you try to banzai shift immediately, it's going to grind, and grind REAL bad.

I'm going to do a test of my own by switching the gear oil and my drain plug with Magnetic ones. Perhaps it is just the age of the fluid (no fluid in my opinion is lifetime) or perhaps the temps+viscosity really just fuck with it at first.
__________________
07 SG 335i
COBB - Burger Motorsports - Evolution Racewerks - TiAL- AMS
boris is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2014, 07:34 PM   #41
elinstylez
Private First Class
 
Drives: N55 335xi e92 M-Sport 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SoCal

Posts: 149
iTrader: (2)

I have the same issue in my msport n55 predominantly with my 1-2 and occasionally 2-3 shifts. I don't grind very often but when I do it's very annoying. After grinding, the shifter becomes really knotchy. Sometimes I think it's because my arm gets lazy and I don't push the shifter into gear all the way but I'm fairly positive it's a manufacturer's defect, which seems to be confirmed by everyone else here.

I took my car to the dealer and had the tech drive it overnight. Of course he couldn't replicate the problem so he said it was "normal". Indeed, it's become normal for me to expect my gears to randomly grind every once in awhile.

I was trying to get the dealer to cover the mt fluid under the standard maintenance but it refused. It's listed on the maintenance list but the dealer claimed it was meant for m models only.

On a side note, my previous mt was a Evo 9 and I never grinded the gears until I installed some crap aftermarket short shifter.
elinstylez is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST