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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Do you regret buying a 6AT sometimes.



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      02-16-2013, 05:45 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
...6MTs are dinosaurs. They are slower, less efficient, and can be a pain in hours of stop and go traffic. But, they add a massive amount of fun to driving, have a very direct feel, and are virtually indestructible if you decide to add more power.
I'm also a manual transmission commuter in SoCal. I change my route to find the path with the least intersections and least stop-and-go traffic. I avoid the really bad traffic areas of "the grid", like the areas near downtown L.A.

When traffic is flowing I don't mind shifting at all. It keeps me from getting bored. I find the prospect of driving a sports or GT car with a conventional torque-converter automatic transmission to be an unexciting prospect.

A few points:

1. Manual transmission 335i is NOT slower. BMW's published data shows 0-60 mph 0.2 seconds faster than AT. Only the 335is/M3 DCT is faster than the manual.

Fuel economy is the same with both transmissions, based on EPA estimates.

When I state the above, usually someone posts something like this:

"Yeah, yeah, Mr. double-clutching race school graduate, what about a really bad driver launching badly and shifting slowly in the manual 335i vs. another idiot in an auto trans 335i who just stomps and steers? The auto would be faster then right?"

Yes, if you want to go as fast as possible with no skill needed on your part by just stomping and steering, the ZF 6AT in the 335i does a pretty damn good job from what I hear, and you will beat a bad driver in a 6MT 335i.

2. Contrary to a persistent myth (probably started by car salesmen who didn't have manual 335is to sell and wanted to B.S. the buyers) manual 335i N54 does NOT cut boost during shifts (it cuts ignition timing instead to maintain turbo rpms).

3. Due to certain peculiarity of the 335i (probably a lightweight flywheel) I learned quickly that to upshift smoothly in normal driving, you need to -just barely- lift your right (throttle) foot during the upshift (not lifting substantially like in most cars). If you upshift really fast you can even "freeze" your right foot not lifting at all (light partial throttle acceleration). Others members here have confirmed this. If I'm barely lifting at all, there's going to be net zero reduction in turbo rpm during the upshift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimodem View Post
Nope. A stick is just busy work -- work one does to make oneself feel better about not having to work too hard to receive a benefit. If I feel the psychological need to take some credit for my transportation, I will ride a bike.
Dude, you have a 335d, cool car, but it's only available in 6AT. So it's not like you had a choice. As far as your psychological analysis... It's not about busy work, it's about CONTROL.

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Originally Posted by GChase View Post
...Choosing an AT came down to the fact that there is a larger abundance of used ATs than MTs, which means better options, and much cheaper prices. Sad that BMW doesn't reduce MSRP of a new car and charge more for AT.
(my emphasis)

Interesting... can anyone else confirm/deny the pricing issue? I only seriously looked at 6MT 335i, I never compared AT and MT car with similar year/miles/options.

Also, now that BMW has made the 6AT standard equipment and the 6MT an option (option code ZMT), they are basically charging a "manual transmission tax" of about $1500.- since that is what you used to have to pay for the 6AT option (the manual trans is cheaper to manufacture).

This more than anything else is going to kill of the traditional manual transmission BMW.
Supply and demand really. Just picked up a MT e90 335 CPO, and while the price was fair the dealer wouldn't budge a penny on the price. They can see us MT for life guys coming from a mile away and know all to well the number of models with MT for hundreds of miles in every direction can be counted on one, maybe two hands. So you have zero bargaining power really. Is it worth it, absolutely!!
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      02-16-2013, 07:43 PM   #134
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I don't mind it when I'm cruising or in stop and go traffic.

But for quick passes I find myself yelling at the car to DOWNSHIFT... But then I remember I have flappers. Sweet.

Then I get in my best friend's '12 S4 with manual and that thing rips all the time. But he also gets 15mpg.

I just need 2 cars haha.
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      02-16-2013, 10:31 PM   #135
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the manual in my 335i is pretty exciting. traffic isn't that bad either, i just coast in 1st most of the time, although a lot of people do cut me off i've noticed haha. the only thing i miss is just mashing the gas pedal to pass someone. i find going from 6th to 3rd is too much and 6th to 4th is meh. either way i'm not an agressive driver and driving manual has tamed me from being a wreckless driver. when i had my e90 330i 6AT, i would speed all over the place since it was so easy to pick up power.
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      02-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisruf911 View Post
I had to travel 300+ miles to get my manual e92...On the expressway I leave it in 6th and have enough ass to pass people from 50mph on up. There really is no hunt for gears with a car this powerful...
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Originally Posted by x-ricer View Post
Supply and demand really. Just picked up a MT e90 335 CPO, and while the price was fair the dealer wouldn't budge a penny on the price. They can see us MT for life guys coming from a mile away and know all to well the number of models with MT for hundreds of miles in every direction can be counted on one, maybe two hands. So you have zero bargaining power really. Is it worth it, absolutely!!
I hear ya...

I found my car 600 miles away in far North California. I did the entire deal over the phone/internet.

The dealer was very responsive and provided everything I asked for (Carfax, maintenance history, detailed photos) and everything checked out. There were probably about 3-4 CPO MT 335i's available at the time in the entire state of California. I remember there were 17 CPO E92 335i available in the entire country at the time.

The car had all the options I wanted (except M Sport which was not available for E92's in '09) and none of the options I did not want. And it had Michelin PS2's (no run-flats!)

I wanted to check the car out but due to professional commitments had no time to do so, and the cost to get up there would have been $600+ anyway. When the dealer offered to deliver the car for $500.- in an enclosed trailer, that sealed the deal.

8 months later and smooth sailing...
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      02-17-2013, 12:12 AM   #137
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6mt no regrets. Nothing compares in fun and excitement. Will never get anything else with the exception of my Prius.
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      02-17-2013, 01:02 AM   #138
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All my Mercs are autos while all my Bimmers, except one, are/were MTs. That's just the way the teutonic gods intended it to be hehe

The thing I like most in my MT 335 is being directly involved in selecting where and when to shift, and how fast I am going when I shift. This happens more-or-less subconsciously and a part of my brain just sort of syncs with my hand and foot to get the desired results. Vroom, snick-snick, whoosh wheee!

Oh I know that DCTs and autos are now faster and more efficient that MT but somehow nailing a shift gives me more satisfaction!
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      02-17-2013, 01:27 AM   #139
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My 335i is the first car I've ever owned with an auto. There are times I'm grateful for it. Other times, I really miss the manual; so much so that I ordered an S4 with a six speed. But when it came time to take delivery, I kept the BMW, despite the AT, because it's such a superb car and handles so beautifully. There's really no replacement, and that includes the F30. So enjoy your AT and its paddles, even if you sometimes miss the third pedal. You're driving one of the best cars around.
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      02-17-2013, 01:53 AM   #140
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This is my first MT car and I love it! I drove an auto for 10 years and I kind of feel like I've been missing out. Lol.
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      02-19-2013, 02:17 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
OK Dozhdbog, I finally had some time to go through Car and Driver's website and look up all their 335i tests, and they did plenty!

So, since we have test data for both transmissions from the same tester, we have a fairly objective alternative to BMW's test data.

So we finally have a pretty reliable answer to which is faster, the 335i with 6 Speed Manual or 335i with 6 Speed Steptronic Auto...

Drumroll...

NEITHER ONE IS CLEARLY FASTER THAN THE OTHER!


Except that the a/t will reliably and consistently attain those results, whereas the manual will have to contend more with user error.

And this is with the e9x models. The f3x models' 8 speed a/t in sport or sport+ mode shifts even faster.
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      02-19-2013, 02:25 PM   #142
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I can say I kind of miss the connection to the car. But with kids, dogs, etc the AT w/paddle shifters definitely suits the family mans needs during the week AND the weekend!! lol
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      02-19-2013, 02:52 PM   #143
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I don't regret the AT for my daily driver in SW Florida surrounded by q-tips but will regret it once this car becomes my weekend warrior !
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      04-09-2013, 07:06 PM   #144
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Coming from an Evo 8 5MT. I test drove a 335i E92 both MT/AT and AT felt much faster down the line.

Please correct me if I'm wrong the AT hold boost between shifting where as MT drops boost.
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      04-09-2013, 07:43 PM   #145
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anyone who claims they bought the AT over the MT because "it is faster" is either a liar or an idiot
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      04-09-2013, 07:45 PM   #146
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6AT with the Alpina TCU flash > MT
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      04-09-2013, 07:50 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELiTeNeSs
6AT with the Alpina TCU flash > MT
Argh- you took the words out of my mouth dude!
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      04-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #148
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Argh- you took the words out of my mouth dude!
Dark_Knight_335 hahahaha

The TCU flash made me fall in love even more with my car.
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      04-09-2013, 08:00 PM   #149
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It really does man!! I just gotta start driving D in granny mode and driving S and M like I stole it. Sometimes, aggressive driving in D just feels a bit jerky. I'm sure that's simply not what it's for.

It seems:
D = Eco mode
S= sport mode

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      04-09-2013, 08:01 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCeagle08 View Post
anyone who claims they bought the AT over the MT because "it is faster" is either a liar or an idiot
Well depends how you look at it, AT shifts through gears quicker but I think what MT guys love like myself is that the power that you dont receive from AT. With AT's you push peddle to floor....2 sec later its like ohhh ok you want lower gear ill give you one. Then for 335 you got little tubro lag and then maybe you have the power lol. When I want power ill get it no question asked.
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      04-09-2013, 08:09 PM   #151
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I believe the F30 M3 will not have a manual with clutch available. Automatics have won, we can stick a fork in manuals with clutches. With that being said, I'll hold onto mine.
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      04-09-2013, 09:45 PM   #152
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I would like a manual, but would LOVE one if it came with an LSD. My e46 M3 was a manual and it was a BLAST to drive because you could break traction and get the tail out with incredible predictability and control. Right now I'm in AT because my wife can't drive MT
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      04-09-2013, 09:49 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaMaster14 View Post
love my 7spd DCT

I will probably have a manual car in the future, as a second car; but I assume that my daily driver will always be a type of automatic/semi-automatic.
DCT is fantabulous. Looking to get an E90 M3 or wait for F80 M3 with DCT myself.

I get annoyed by the AT sometimes, but only when it isn't being as aggressive as I want it to be. There are some times, it will shift hard (after determining that I'm driving aggressive and upping line pressure) and its when I absolutely love the ZF.
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      04-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #154
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The auto is great for my needs week day rush hour traffic in North Jersey suck in a manual. The weekends when I want to drive manual I have the Z3.

Yes, I agree there is a more connected feeling driving a manual Vs autos but clutch in clutch out to move 5 feet at a time gets old fast in traffic.
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