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      02-10-2013, 05:48 PM   #45
Autobahn335i
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I wonder how he keeps the ST kit owners so quiet! Not much word about track times nor the announced "easy fix" for the 6AT slipping problems. Don't get me wrong, such a fix would be a great thing and we might all benefit from it. But the lack of updates are disturbing.
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      02-10-2013, 05:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
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Originally Posted by Dmacc View Post
So much hate on Shiv! No more updates from him while he goes quiet causes a large scene on e90post! Remember the good old days when his silence meant he was up to something for this platform. You guys all make it seem like he doesn't care about this platform, just wait a little bit and something new will be brought to the table. Until then I guess you could keep bashing shiv and Vishnu, it's a little fun to watch
Maybe instead of something new he should just deliver what is necessary & promised on what is out there now.

As for 600+ horsepower the only one so far that has shown any actual off the dyno performance is his own car. I could be wrong but so far none of the ST customer cars AFAIK have equalled the RB #'s of 11.1X129mph with a slipping second gear requiring the launch boost to be backed down.
Correct if you are talking about the drag strip. His car still holds the fastest 1/4 time, probably because its the only single turbo car set up to put the power down, besides possibly FBIS who was hooking his r888s in second.

Capt insano's car was running like a champ at the airstrip event, his car is a 6mt, the autos were having transmission problems from the power. More RB guys are going to the track (1/4 mile) than single turbos. And the singles that do go aren't properly set up to put down the power. RB turbos or Vargas stage 2 can't be at all compared to the large single power wise. As for performance, it has nothing to do with the kit, just the driver and his suspension/fender/tire mods.
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      02-10-2013, 06:50 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Transport3r View Post
If only we had an aggressive map that WASN'T Beta by now. We've been promised production maps and a slew of features for months if not years. like mentioned earlier, there are people out there still waiting for steering wheel controls.

*edit* I know we can custom tune our cars with the procede software and adjust everything we need to, it works fine.
But there are a lot of people out there who want to plug in the tune, set it and forget about it (which is a very marketed feature of the procede). Those people are in most need of good customer service and update support, which I believe, considering the price of the procede, should be second to none.
What map isn't beta. One map doesn't fit all. Yes, you can make stage maps, but they don't take full advantage of your cars potential. Never have and never will regardless of what tune you run. Just that we're more comfortable knowing this platform can hold over 700 whp stock. So to push the limits a little harder for a stage was acceptable thus the aggressive maps. I agree, it would be nice if Shiv would enable the auto-tune for those who want the aggressive maps with auto-tune options.
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      02-10-2013, 07:10 PM   #48
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The difference is when you pay hundreds for a tune you expect it to work properly. No custom running necessary on the other two major options
Are you talking about JB4? All tunes work out of the box so I'm not sure what you are talking about... When you start pushing the limits like we do, you're bound to run into all different types of issues. Both JB4 and PROcede have issues with trims. Shiv fixed this with a DME flash. Then people bitched so Terry offered everyone a COBB based solution which on his part was a great after the fact move. But, now JB owners have to go out and buy a COBB AP for $800 to get the free solution from BMS. Like you said, you paid hundreds for a tune and expect it to work and now you have to pay almost double what you paid for the JB4 to get a better tune only to patch what your piggy can't overcome. Funny people didn't bitch more about that, but when FFTEC offered the booster pump, people went off the hook because of the price. So what does Vishnu and BMS offer today other than hijacking and meth control? Maybe we all need to go out and buy a COBB AP and Aquamist Meth controller and we wouldn't have to deal with these issues anymore.
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      02-10-2013, 08:10 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
We pretty much have one map, that is ridiculous for all the fueling options that are now available. I know you have the flex-fuel setup but most of us don't know the details of this since it wasn't followed through with much from vishnu.

So lets think of the logical fueling options that can be used.

1.) 93 no meth
2.) 93 with meth
3.) 93 with e85 no meth
4.) 93 with e85 with meth

Instead we have
1.) 93
2.) meth

This is something that vishnu was suppose to address and him selling the flex fuel attachment is ridiculous. If you fill your car up with 50% e85 regardless if it good 80% e85 or crappy 60% e85, you still are going to be able to max out ignition advance and boost regardless of how pure the e85 is.

We need more maps with the new fueling options now available. You have to know agree with that.
How often do you change maps? I agree that on the fly options would be nice, but would you use them? I understand your point, but 90% of the people just load a stock map and go. If you need to run pump gas, map 0 works just fine until you can get e85. Yeah it sucks if a red neck in a GTO wants to race, but shit happens.

I have the flex kit and honestly I don't use it. Map 3 was setup to use map 2 and run leaner than map 2, but doesn't include the option for meth. So I'm currently running map 2. I don't run map 4 because I don't want it jumping from map 1 to map 2. I have map 1 setup for pump gas and map 2 for 100% e85 with meth. Doesn't need meth, but I see a few whp gain with it enabled.

Although I have an upgrade I'm not using, I'm happy with my tune and have spent enough time on a dyno to know unless I go single or upgraded twins, I'm not going to get much more out of my ride as it sits. Hopefully this spell of quite will bring something new to the table. As we all know, that's usually the case. How it's received is another issue all in it's own.
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      02-10-2013, 08:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
I wonder how he keeps the ST kit owners so quiet! Not much word about track times nor the announced "easy fix" for the 6AT slipping problems. Don't get me wrong, such a fix would be a great thing and we might all benefit from it. But the lack of updates are disturbing.
Not everyone likes to track their car. The captain has his car setup for track day events and not quarter mile, so fat chance he'll take the chance of braking his car just so everyone can laugh at his sub 11 sec times. Yes an RB car might keep up with him in the quarter, but he'll pull buses on them in the half mile. The AT issue is not just ST related. Terry and Sick335 are having the same issue with their RB cars. No one realized this was an issue until they ran half mile and was shifting from 4th to 5th under load. Apparently this was a known issue with the valve body and on later model valve bodies ZF has taken care of this issue, but no one with a late model AT car is running enough power to compare. We should know soon because a few members are getting upgraded valve bodies. Hopefully the new pistons and upgraded spring rates will allow the trans to shift under load. Only time will tell.
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      02-10-2013, 08:28 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
How often do you change maps? I agree that on the fly options would be nice, but would you use them? I understand your point, but 90% of the people just load a stock map and go. If you need to run pump gas, map 0 works just fine until you can get e85. Yeah it sucks if a red neck in a GTO wants to race, but shit happens.

I have the flex kit and honestly I don't use it. Map 3 was setup to use map 2 and run leaner than map 2, but doesn't include the option for meth. So I'm currently running map 2. I don't run map 4 because I don't want it jumping from map 1 to map 2. I have map 1 setup for pump gas and map 2 for 100% e85 with meth. Doesn't need meth, but I see a few whp gain with it enabled.

Although I have an upgrade I'm not using, I'm happy with my tune and have spent enough time on a dyno to know unless I go single or upgraded twins, I'm not going to get much more out of my ride as it sits. Hopefully this spell of quite will bring something new to the table. As we all know, that's usually the case. How it's received is another issue all in it's own.
I get where you're coming from about people complaining about vishnu but you have to admit things have been strangely quiet the past 6-9 months with vishnu. Everyone would always give them the benefit of the doubt and say, "hey, if they're quiet, something big must be coming to the table". But with the recent disappointments from their product, us as consumers start judging.

Obviously I'm not comparing vishnu to apple but it's on the same lines of a product that you use to think was superior such as I did with the Procede. But as I see other products and what they're offering and catching up and even surpassing what my current procede does, it's frustrating.

Also, I change my maps often, I feel I should never need to use map 0 as a compromise/limitation. The tune was initially designed to run 93 so I dont feel I should need to compromise my performance because the lack of promised updates have not come. The map 3 N/A map should have been blown up and reassigned a year ago since it can't even been used.

I'm just pointing out obvious flaws with vishnu and co. the past few months.
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      02-10-2013, 09:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
I get where you're coming from about people complaining about vishnu but you have to admit things have been strangely quiet the past 6-9 months with vishnu. Everyone would always give them the benefit of the doubt and say, "hey, if they're quiet, something big must be coming to the table". But with the recent disappointments from their product, us as consumers start judging.

Obviously I'm not comparing vishnu to apple but it's on the same lines of a product that you use to think was superior such as I did with the Procede. But as I see other products and what they're offering and catching up and even surpassing what my current procede does, it's frustrating.

Also, I change my maps often, I feel I should never need to use map 0 as a compromise/limitation. The tune was initially designed to run 93 so I dont feel I should need to compromise my performance because the lack of promised updates have not come. The map 3 N/A map should have been blown up and reassigned a year ago since it can't even been used.

I'm just pointing out obvious flaws with vishnu and co. the past few months.
Yeah, unfortunately map 3 was only dropped for the flex firmware. I hope they will have something soon for everyone. But even map 3 on Flex used the base tune for map 2. Honestly I don't know if the PROcede is capable of loading more than two mapping options unless they make some major changes to the application and firmware.

How about a Rev 4? WIFI, GPS, Accelerometers and the ability to remote tune and data log over the Internet. Give it the ability to write to the DME so you can make table changes on the fly. Now connect your G4 Internet enabled tablet and the sky's the limit. How about drag racing someone the other side of the country? Or going to a track day and being able to log everything or how about interface it with your GoPro video so you can put your stats onscreen. How cool would that be? Would you buy it? Would you switch from COBB or JB4 to have the latest toys?
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      02-10-2013, 09:09 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Yeah, unfortunately map 3 was only dropped for the flex firmware. I hope they will have something soon for everyone. But even map 3 on Flex used the base tune for map 2. Honestly I don't know if the PROcede is capable of loading more than two mapping options unless they make some major changes to the application and firmware.

How about a Rev 4? WIFI, GPS, Accelerometers and the ability to remote tune and data log over the Internet. Give it the ability to write to the DME so you can make table changes on the fly. Now connect your G4 Internet enabled tablet and the sky's the limit. How about drag racing someone the other side of the country? Or going to a track day and being able to log everything or how about interface it with your GoPro video so you can put your stats onscreen. How cool would that be? Would you buy it? Would you switch from COBB or JB4 to have the latest toys?
I bought everything from vishnu even with the addt'l markup. So most people who paid for vishnu products more than likely would stick to it and not cheap out if the new product was worth it.

Those are pretty good ideas but who knows what vishnu is working on now, unfortunately, the past 3 big new updates have been flops.

1.) Flex Fuel (Never took off)
2.) Addt'l fuel pump
3.) Single Turbo to an extent
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      02-10-2013, 09:11 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Are you talking about JB4? All tunes work out of the box so I'm not sure what you are talking about... When you start pushing the limits like we do, you're bound to run into all different types of issues. Both JB4 and PROcede have issues with trims. Shiv fixed this with a DME flash. Then people bitched so Terry offered everyone a COBB based solution which on his part was a great after the fact move. But, now JB owners have to go out and buy a COBB AP for $800 to get the free solution from BMS. Like you said, you paid hundreds for a tune and expect it to work and now you have to pay almost double what you paid for the JB4 to get a better tune only to patch what your piggy can't overcome. Funny people didn't bitch more about that, but when FFTEC offered the booster pump, people went off the hook because of the price. So what does Vishnu and BMS offer today other than hijacking and meth control? Maybe we all need to go out and buy a COBB AP and Aquamist Meth controller and we wouldn't have to deal with these issues anymore.
You know, there is a THIRD standalone tuning solution out there, one you mentioned in that reply. And I think I speak for everyone when we say we'd rather buy an AP, resell it later down the road for a $100 loss and flash maps at home instead of shipping DMEs every time an update comes out with the car out of commission while waiting.

There is good news on that front though, with a little legwork, you can run an AP with Procede without any issues.

And as someone who owns RBs and run them pretty hard on a 6AT at 21psi on E85 + meth, I am fully aware of the fueling limitations of piggy only. Even then, you can run 18psi or so on RBs with 93+meth without any trim issues. Only becomes an issue on E85.

Just saying, it isn't much to ask to have something work properly out the box for the great majority of owners out there (e.g. 93 octane with bolt-ons).
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      02-10-2013, 09:12 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Yeah, unfortunately map 3 was only dropped for the flex firmware. I hope they will have something soon for everyone. But even map 3 on Flex used the base tune for map 2. Honestly I don't know if the PROcede is capable of loading more than two mapping options unless they make some major changes to the application and firmware.

How about a Rev 4? WIFI, GPS, Accelerometers and the ability to remote tune and data log over the Internet. Give it the ability to write to the DME so you can make table changes on the fly. Now connect your G4 Internet enabled tablet and the sky's the limit. How about drag racing someone the other side of the country? Or going to a track day and being able to log everything or how about interface it with your GoPro video so you can put your stats onscreen. How cool would that be? Would you buy it? Would you switch from COBB or JB4 to have the latest toys?
lol. Not sure if serious.
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      02-10-2013, 09:15 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Not everyone likes to track their car. The captain has his car setup for track day events and not quarter mile, so fat chance he'll take the chance of braking his car just so everyone can laugh at his sub 11 sec times. Yes an RB car might keep up with him in the quarter, but he'll pull buses on them in the half mile. The AT issue is not just ST related. Terry and Sick335 are having the same issue with their RB cars. No one realized this was an issue until they ran half mile and was shifting from 4th to 5th under load. Apparently this was a known issue with the valve body and on later model valve bodies ZF has taken care of this issue, but no one with a late model AT car is running enough power to compare. We should know soon because a few members are getting upgraded valve bodies. Hopefully the new pistons and upgraded spring rates will allow the trans to shift under load. Only time will tell.
Correction: Terry's 6AT had issues well before the RBs went on. And I am running what you'd consider a "late model" 6AT since I have an 09 E90 LCI, and no transmission issues.

IIRC, Terry's 135i also is an 09 though, so it should make little difference.

PS: road course events take a far greater toll on a car than a few passes at the drag strip.
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      02-10-2013, 09:36 PM   #57
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You know, there is a THIRD standalone tuning solution out there, one you mentioned in that reply. And I think I speak for everyone when we say we'd rather buy an AP, resell it later down the road for a $100 loss and flash maps at home instead of shipping DMEs every time an update comes out with the car out of commission while waiting.

There is good news on that front though, with a little legwork, you can run an AP with Procede without any issues.

And as someone who owns RBs and run them pretty hard on a 6AT at 21psi on E85 + meth, I am fully aware of the fueling limitations of piggy only. Even then, you can run 18psi or so on RBs with 93+meth without any trim issues. Only becomes an issue on E85.

Just saying, it isn't much to ask to have something work properly out the box for the great majority of owners out there (e.g. 93 octane with bolt-ons).
True, but not everyone has the extra $ sitting around. I know the DME shipping thing sucked. Like I said, it was a good move on Terry's part going COBB. Shiv should have sucked it up and did the same thing when everyone bitched about shipping. At a minimum gave people the option. I'm looking forward to checking out WinOLS. Put my INPA cable to good use.
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      02-10-2013, 10:25 PM   #58
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Unlike the majority of you I have actually met Shiv a few times ans he has tuned my car. He is good at what he does....tuning and developing platforms.
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      02-10-2013, 11:32 PM   #59
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Unlike the majority of you I have actually met Shiv a few times ans he has tuned my car. He is good at what he does....tuning and developing platforms.
So? I've met Shiv too. He's used my car as a guinea pig for chronic 6AT misfire issues which were CPS related back in the day.
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      02-10-2013, 11:39 PM   #60
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True, but not everyone has the extra $ sitting around. I know the DME shipping thing sucked. Like I said, it was a good move on Terry's part going COBB. Shiv should have sucked it up and did the same thing when everyone bitched about shipping. At a minimum gave people the option. I'm looking forward to checking out WinOLS. Put my INPA cable to good use.
I'd take losing a $100 resale value on an AP over being without a car for a week or longer, but hey, that's me. Unless you're springing $30 for overnight shipping, with no guarantee of same-day turnaround on their end.

And like I said, it's quite possible to run an AP with Procede. Just take CPS wires out, reduce bias and have at it! It's no different than running an AP with JB4 really. Honestly, I'd rather go Procede if stacking simply because it has a true Map 0 passthrough which the JB4 ISO does not. But you also have to weigh in the support factor since Vishnu does not condone such a setup
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      02-11-2013, 12:57 AM   #61
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It seems that the inevitable has happened. He's been run off by other companies. Just like the Subaru and Mitsubishi markets. Is he still in those markets? Sure is. Is he active in them? Not exactly. Unless he pops his head in here and proves the world wrong, only time will tell. Being the first to market is important. What's even more important is long term customer service. Something that Vishnu has never been good at IMO.
I've met him also, back in '03. He came to Colorado for a high altitude tuning day. Not only was he baffled by the tuning issues associated with the area, but he was a real prick when it came to other products on the dyno that day. Not a single person had respect for him after the day was over. Especially the shop's staff, and they were a Vishnu dealer. He acted very childish and he lost my business for life as a result. I had little respect for him prior to that day, and zero after the fact. I doubt he'll be missed for long around here.
Good riddance and good luck with your new platform Shiv, what ever that may be. BRZ/FRS presumably.
Edit: his last log in was yesterday, so he's keeping an eye on the forum.
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      02-11-2013, 01:37 AM   #62
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I'd take losing a $100 resale value on an AP over being without a car for a week or longer, but hey, that's me. Unless you're springing $30 for overnight shipping, with no guarantee of same-day turnaround on their end.

And like I said, it's quite possible to run an AP with Procede. Just take CPS wires out, reduce bias and have at it! It's no different than running an AP with JB4 really. Honestly, I'd rather go Procede if stacking simply because it has a true Map 0 passthrough which the JB4 ISO does not. But you also have to weigh in the support factor since Vishnu does not condone such a setup
Well, regardless of what happens, even with all the dislike around here, he did bring a lot to the table and pushed the platform to new levels. It will be interesting to see how this year plays out.
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      02-11-2013, 07:40 AM   #63
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It seems that the inevitable has happened. He's been run off by other companies.
I really hope not. The Procede is a very good tuning solution, arguably the most capable piggyback we have. Just wish it was as well supported as the JB and Cobb...

I think Vishnu are losing out on a lot of return business. I was very much on track to get their PWM meth kit and other things after my procede. Not anymore though. The last thing that made me decide to wait and see what happens with vishnu before giving them any more business is what happened to Tenshiwingusu. He got a procede 2.5 for his 07, and had severe boost control issues, worst oscillations on map0. He sent the unit back with detailed descriptions of the problems, and after testing the unit in their shop car, Vishnu concluded the procede ran fine. After getting it back, long behold the problems were still there. Per Vishnu's recommendation he replaced both boost solenoids and all vacuum lines, still no dice. He sent the unit back again, and was finally told the unit was obviously bad and they would ship him a different one... makes me wonder how thorough their testing was the first time around.
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      02-11-2013, 08:11 AM   #64
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      02-11-2013, 11:25 AM   #65
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Correct if you are talking about the drag strip. His car still holds the fastest 1/4 time, probably because its the only single turbo car set up to put the power down, besides possibly FBIS who was hooking his r888s in second.

Capt insano's car was running like a champ at the airstrip event, his car is a 6mt, the autos were having transmission problems from the power. More RB guys are going to the track (1/4 mile) than single turbos. And the singles that do go aren't properly set up to put down the power. RB turbos or Vargas stage 2 can't be at all compared to the large single power wise. As for performance, it has nothing to do with the kit, just the driver and his suspension/fender/tire mods.
Shiv is running a modified suspension, different rear gearing & drag slicks. He is just .3 seconds quicker and 2.5 mph faster then a car running street tires, stock gearing, thousands less in parts, 100+ less horsepower & a slipping transmission.

Since his car is the only one doing it out of ten or twelve cars with the ST I don't really see the point.
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2014 435M-Sport - 2013 135is Cab JB4/ISO 6MT - 2009 V-Star - 2009 Ford Expedition EL 4X4 - 2003 Xterra 4X4 - 1998 Ranger 4X4 - FFR Cobra MK-IV work in progress
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      02-11-2013, 11:33 AM   #66
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I made the switch too. Lack of support finally got to me.
I will say that the Vishnu meth kit is far superior compared to the BMS kit though
With that said the jb4 makes some serious power!
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