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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Quaife vs Wavetrac vs OS Giken



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      02-15-2013, 04:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
I'm open to the idea of a sale on 5-10 units....

ps. did I mention that we are doing a M3 conversion, JRZ RS1s, VAC tune, VAC diff and more to a 335D soon? ;-)
I may be down for this, IF there is a retroactive discount given to the pioneer that is getting the JRZs, etc installed with you guys . Otherwise, I would feel bad for referring him to your shop and then getting a lower price for waiting.

Can you speak to the difference if any between maintenance requirement/warranties of Quaife vs Giken?
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      02-15-2013, 05:07 PM   #24
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I may be down for this, IF there is a retroactive discount given to the pioneer that is getting the JRZs, etc installed with you guys . Otherwise, I would feel bad for referring him to your shop and then getting a lower price for waiting.

Can you speak to the difference if any between maintenance requirement/warranties of Quaife vs Giken?
Yes, that would be the honorable thing to do, would it not? The advanced party is the one that takes the initial fire. Those Gilken Superlocks sound rather nice. But I do remember hearing/reading something about the Gilken maintenance requirements being more than the Quaife.
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      02-15-2013, 05:22 PM   #25
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So I know about the Quaife and Wavetrac but don't know much about the OS Giken ones. Why are they so much more and would they be better in any way than the other two to justify that price?
They cost so much more because OS giken is made in Japan, and imported to the US. Secondly OS giken doesn't make that many diffs at a time, so their supply is decreased, contributing to the high price. Quife is made in the UK, while wavetrac is made in the US, and is the cheapest.

To answer your second question, No, I don't think that the OS giken is better than the other two to justify the price. Not at all in fact. Besides the fact that you have to use special diff fluid from os giken ($50/liter), its a one way differential like the quaife. The wavetrac diff is the only 2 way diff (works under zero load). Meaning when you let off the throttle, the quaife, and os giken behave like an open diff. Also the quaife, and OS giken can only transfer power to the non slipping wheel if there is at least some traction in the slipping wheel. If there is no traction at all, such as in ice, or if that wheel is lifted off the ground, they will both behave like open diffs. Functionally speaking, wavetrac is by far superior to the rest.
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      02-15-2013, 05:33 PM   #26
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We have a plan for him ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
I may be down for this, IF there is a retroactive discount given to the pioneer that is getting the JRZs, etc installed with you guys . Otherwise, I would feel bad for referring him to your shop and then getting a lower price for waiting.

Can you speak to the difference if any between maintenance requirement/warranties of Quaife vs Giken?
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      02-15-2013, 05:38 PM   #27
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...I don't think that the OS giken is better than the other two to justify the price. Not at all in fact. Besides the fact that you have to use special diff fluid from os giken ($50/liter), its a one way differential like the quaife. The wavetrac diff is the only 2 way diff (works under zero load). Meaning when you let off the throttle, the quaife, and os giken behave like an open diff. Also the quaife, and OS giken can only transfer power to the non slipping wheel if there is at least some traction in the slipping wheel. If there is no traction at all, such as in ice, or if that wheel is lifted off the ground, they will both behave like open diffs. Functionally speaking, wavetrac is by far superior to the rest.
All you have to do is tap on the brake to re-engage the Quaife...If your wheel is spinning simply apply a little pressure to the brakes. This will load up the wheel and put more power to the grounded wheel.
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      02-15-2013, 05:42 PM   #28
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To be clear, the sale will be for the Quaife ATB. We have sold hundreds of these and they perform flawlessly 100% of the time. These are the best choice for most enthusiasts.

We love the OSG units but they are for the person looking to take it a bit further. If you are looking for *serious* track performance, the OSG is by far the better solution.


http://www.vacmotorsports.com/blog/v...-how-we-do-it/
http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-...als-p2324.aspx
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      02-15-2013, 06:37 PM   #29
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Killerfish, you are wrong about the OS Giken TCD diff. It can act like a 1.5 way or 2 way diff. Moreover, it doesn't act like an open diff when you decelerate. Quite the opposite.
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      02-15-2013, 07:51 PM   #30
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Great info hear. I need to start saving.

Does VAC work with any install shops on the Westcoast?
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      02-15-2013, 07:55 PM   #31
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Killerfish, you are wrong about the OS Giken TCD diff. It can act like a 1.5 way or 2 way diff. Moreover, it doesn't act like an open diff when you decelerate. Quite the opposite.
I thought this didn't quite sound right. I specifically remembered the 1.5 comment. Thanks for the clarity, Greek!
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      02-15-2013, 10:08 PM   #32
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Killerfish, you are wrong about the OS Giken TCD diff. It can act like a 1.5 way or 2 way diff. Moreover, it doesn't act like an open diff when you decelerate. Quite the opposite.
OS Giken TCD is NOT a 2 way. From OS giken:

The OS Giken Super Lock TCD differential is an advanced LSD design, offering exceptionally smooth transition from open to locked operation. The unique design uses oil distribution channels on the plate surfaces and through the cartridge to achieve strong locking without the jerky low-speed operation often associate with mechanical LSD centers. The design is also maintenance-free thanks to the improved lubrication.

This advanced LSD uses a revolutionary breakthrough in clutch-type differential design. Its patented design enables 100% full locking, unparalleled durability and allows up to twice the friction plates (up to 28 plates in total) compared to conventional designs.

Made from the highest quality material using precise machining, forged gears and sound engineering, the Super Lock systems are the most durable and reliable race performance LSDs available. The Super Lock TCD is a 1.5-way differential that locks fully under acceleration and only partially under braking.
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      02-15-2013, 10:24 PM   #33
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All you have to do is tap on the brake to re-engage the Quaife...If your wheel is spinning simply apply a little pressure to the brakes. This will load up the wheel and put more power to the grounded wheel.
Even if this worked, I'm not sure how this would help you at the track during corner turn in.
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      02-15-2013, 10:25 PM   #34
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...and thanks for the further clarity, fish.
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      02-15-2013, 11:49 PM   #35
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I stand corrected Killerfish. It's the OS Giken Super Lock that offers 2-way. Great read here for all of us. Awesome info in this link:

Link

2-way would be overkill for our cars...unless we were looking to drift with them
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      02-16-2013, 08:58 PM   #36
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Let me chime in. Being I had VAC build my diff with a OSG Super Lock. I've driven a lot of cars with factory LSD's. Mainly Supras. I've also built 4x4 trucks with Detroit lockers F&R. So I've had quite a few vehicles with an array of diffs. The OSG is by far the best unit I've driven. It's quiet, has ridiculous traction too. Very linear feeling and a true HD unit. It's like a factory LSD on roids. And when I was looking for a diff, from what I researched if one wheel came off the ground, say going up a driveway sideways, the OSG would still give traction to the wheel with traction. All I know it's a beast. I've been around some corners while just WOT and it's great.
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      02-16-2013, 09:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fl335i
Let me chime in. Being I had VAC build my diff with a OSG Super Lock. I've driven a lot of cars with factory LSD's. Mainly Supras. I've also built 4x4 trucks with Detroit lockers F&R. So I've had quite a few vehicles with an array of diffs. The OSG is by far the best unit I've driven. It's quiet, has ridiculous traction too. Very linear feeling and a true HD unit. It's like a factory LSD on roids. And when I was looking for a diff, from what I researched if one wheel came off the ground, say going up a driveway sideways, the OSG would still give traction to the wheel with traction. All I know it's a beast. I've been around some corners while just WOT and it's great.
Darn. Too late. Wait! Maybe somebody can take my Quaife and I'll buy the Super Lock. My Quaife is probably built into the core by now so someone would have no wait. Any takers? Hmmm. I just went on the OSG website and saw no application for the E90 335d.
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      02-16-2013, 11:23 PM   #38
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It's not on their website but it's definitely doable. It's the BM531-HC (TCD) or BM531-HA (Superlock) models that you'd need and the ring gear would get cut from your factory differential (that's why VAC has cores on hand) then machined and tapped to accept normal bolts to properly retain the 335d gear.

OS Giken doesn't include the ring gear for the 335d. That's why you don't see it listed on their site.
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      02-16-2013, 11:55 PM   #39
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Here is a Belgian rally car in action with the OSG. Mike from VAC can chime in with details about this car as I've seen him post the video in another forum:

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      02-17-2013, 05:04 AM   #40
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Can you speak to the difference if any between maintenance requirement/warranties of Quaife vs Giken?
Mike when you chime in, could you please reply to my question above? Thx.
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      02-17-2013, 07:52 AM   #41
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FR, I'll let Mike handle the main details but the Quaife is pretty much maintenance free. Since the OSG has clutch plates, you'll need to change the oil every so often for it. After installing, an oil change at 1,800 miles as you break it in and then after every 12,000 miles or so. This is for regular use so if the car is tracked heavily, you'll have more frequent oil changes for the OSG.
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      02-17-2013, 09:51 AM   #42
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The oil change requirements could be a decision key factor for me because at this point in my life am not too keen on DIY that I may have tackled earlier on.
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      02-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #43
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The oil change requirements could be a decision key factor for me because at this point in my life am not too keen on DIY that I may have tackled earlier on.
You could always get someone else to do it for you. Would be a dirt cheap task as you already know.

Did you also get the VAC differential cover too?:

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      02-17-2013, 10:24 AM   #44
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Diff Cover

Umm, no. Mucho $$$$$ but looks necessary. For both Quaife and OSG SL or just OSG SL?
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