E90Post
 


N54Tuning.com
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Quaife vs Wavetrac vs OS Giken



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-17-2013, 10:34 AM   #45
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
The VAC differential cover works for any of them. Wavetrac, Quaife, or OSG.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 10:38 AM   #46
335dFan
Jumping Jack Flash
335dFan's Avatar
United_States
13
Rep
1,084
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oregon (near Portland)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD
The VAC differential cover works for any of them. Wavetrac, Quaife, or OSG.
I guess I meant is it really needed for the Quaife rather than will it fit?
__________________
Mods-Etc: Quaife LSD w/VAC finned diff cover, M3 Rear SF Bushings, M3 sways & OEM Susp Front/Rear Cmpnt Kits ('cept strut brace), GC Caster/Camber Plates, AC Schnitzer M3 Sport Springs, JRZ RS1 dampers, JBD 100%, Goodrich SS brake lines, non-stggrd APEX ARC-8 18" wheels with Nitto Motivo tires (winter OEM 17" wheels and Blizzak LM-25).
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 10:39 AM   #47
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Do you plan to track the car? If so, then I'd say yes.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 10:56 AM   #48
335dFan
Jumping Jack Flash
335dFan's Avatar
United_States
13
Rep
1,084
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oregon (near Portland)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
Do you plan to track the car? If so, then I'd say yes.
Some of the more clever forum members would say "if you are spending so much money on your suspension, why are you not tracking it?". Which would be a good question of course even though I want it to handle equally well on the street. But the simple answer is most likely I would not do much more than a couple of HPDEs a year. Unless of course I catch the track fever. But the old reflexes are not what they used to be, and am not Paul Newman, so my estimate is priobably realistic. Who knows. $800 is a lot of money for a diff cover.
__________________
Mods-Etc: Quaife LSD w/VAC finned diff cover, M3 Rear SF Bushings, M3 sways & OEM Susp Front/Rear Cmpnt Kits ('cept strut brace), GC Caster/Camber Plates, AC Schnitzer M3 Sport Springs, JRZ RS1 dampers, JBD 100%, Goodrich SS brake lines, non-stggrd APEX ARC-8 18" wheels with Nitto Motivo tires (winter OEM 17" wheels and Blizzak LM-25).
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 10:59 AM   #49
taibanl
Brigadier General
taibanl's Avatar
65
Rep
3,648
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
Do you plan to track the car? If so, then I'd say yes.
Some of the more clever forum members would say "if you are spending so much money on your suspension, why are you not tracking it?". Which would be a good question of course even though I want it to handle equally well on the street. But the simple answer is most likely I would not do much more than a couple of HPDEs a year. Unless of course I catch the track fever. But the old reflexes are not what they used to be, and am not Paul Newman, so my estimate is priobably realistic. Who knows. $800 is a lot of money for a diff cover.
+1. Why would it be needed?
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 11:03 AM   #50
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
+1. Why would it be needed?
Check out the link in post #43.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 02:00 PM   #51
gruppeM3
Private First Class
3
Rep
151
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3, 335d M-Sport, 4.8is
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
Check out the link in post #43.
Man that is one nice diff cover. Looks like a quality piece too
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2013, 08:47 PM   #52
fl335i
Captain
fl335i's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
869
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: FL

iTrader: (1)

I love my VAC cover. And I had VAC send a drain plug to Gold Plug and they put a huge monster GOLD magnet on it. I love driveline bling. The factory cover has no drain. Really, no drain? PITA for oil changes... and the VAC cover has more capacity, cooling fins and is billet aluminum for heat transfer. Plus it looks awsome from behind. To other gear heads.
__________________
'07 335i Sedan, base pkg, 6spd Manual, Procede 3 V5 w/NLS, 18" Staggered 313's w/Conti DWS's, OS Giken TCD LSD, VAC Street Diff Cover, Dinan Oil Cooler, Dinan Intercooler, Akebono Euro Pads, CDV Removed, Black BMW Grilles, Interior & Exterior white LED lighting, LUX Angel Eyes, Debadged, Blend V1 mount, Llumar ATR Tint.
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2013, 09:35 PM   #53
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fl335i
I love my VAC cover. And I had VAC send a drain plug to Gold Plug and they put a huge monster GOLD magnet on it. I love driveline bling. The factory cover has no drain. Really, no drain? PITA for oil changes... and the VAC cover has more capacity, cooling fins and is billet aluminum for heat transfer. Plus it looks awsome from behind. To other gear heads.
Sounds sick. Does the VAC cover have a drain plug that you had altered into a magnetic one?
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 12:10 AM   #54
FormerRotor
Major
FormerRotor's Avatar
22
Rep
1,466
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d, M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MD

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl335i View Post
I love my VAC cover. And I had VAC send a drain plug to Gold Plug and they put a huge monster GOLD magnet on it. I love driveline bling. The factory cover has no drain. Really, no drain? PITA for oil changes... and the VAC cover has more capacity, cooling fins and is billet aluminum for heat transfer. Plus it looks awsome from behind. To other gear heads.
I'm jealous
__________________

My Picture Threads (Oldest to Newest): 1 2 3
Join BMW CCA! (Use my link and I get credit )
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 12:16 AM   #55
tigermack
OPN DIFF
tigermack's Avatar
Hong Kong
17
Rep
1,290
Posts

 
Drives: 06' 330i MT TiAg
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pacific Ocean

iTrader: (11)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to tigermack
I have to say, I'd not go for a Quaife if I do plan to track my car. I have an OSG in my e36 and my bro has an OSG in his MS3, they are superior than the Quaife type LSD I had in my MZ3.
__________________
M-tech front\Hartge CF lip\blacklines\M3 wheel\BMW P.E.\BMS powerbox\ST coils\BBS GT4

e36 - racecar - SCCA STX #188

Autocross vids https://www.youtube.com/user/tigermack
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 06:47 AM   #56
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermack
I have to say, I'd not go for a Quaife if I do plan to track my car. I have an OSG in my e36 and my bro has an OSG in his MS3, they are superior than the Quaife type LSD I had in my MZ3.
Super lock or TCD?
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 06:50 AM   #57
Techevo
Evo Junkie
2
Rep
142
Posts

 
Drives: E91 325D M-Sport, Evo 6
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bedford, UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
To answer your second question, No, I don't think that the OS giken is better than the other two to justify the price.
It depends what youíre doing with the car. If itís hardcore trackwork the OS Giken is far superior due to the high percentage lock-up available (ie better traction) and adjustability to let you change maximum lock-up and pre-load.
If itís mainly a road car, a pure helical is fit and forget, quiet and maintenance free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Besides the fact that you have to use special diff fluid from os giken ($50/liter)
Um, not really, all plated LSDís required an oil which has a friction modifier added to it for smooth lock-up of the friction plates and discs, you do not need to use the oil from OS Giken. Most major oil manufacturers sell ĎLSí oil, such as Millers LS CRX, Castrol B373, Redline Shockproof etc. If the diff is too noisy, try adding some friction modifier to quieten or reduce chatter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
its a one way differential like the quaife. The wavetrac diff is the only 2 way diff (works under zero load). Meaning when you let off the throttle, the quaife, and os giken behave like an open diff
A Quaife isnít a 1 way, 1.5 way or 2 way diff. This classification isnít used for a non locking torsen (TORque SENsing) helical diff. The Quaife still transfers torque under deceleration.

The OS Superlock will be available in 1, 1.5 or 2 way. 1.5 way is exactly what you want for a RWD track/race car. This means it has maximum lock-up on acceleration (% lock-up depending on plate config, ramp angle and oil used) and a smaller percentage lock-up on deceleration (off throttle and braking) This slight lock-up on decel helps keep the rear end stable. It is not Ďopení when you let off the throttle!

A 2 way diff isnít called as such because it works under zero load (nothing to do with it) it is because it has the same percentage lock-up under acceleration and deceleration, and only really to be fitted to a Ďdriftí car due to the oversteer characteristics it causes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Also the quaife and OS giken can only transfer power to the non slipping wheel if there is at least some traction in the slipping wheel. If there is no traction at all, such as in ice, or if that wheel is lifted off the ground, they will both behave like open diffs
True for the Quaife, but completely wrong for the OS. One major benefit of a plated LSD such as the OS, is itís ability to lock-up regardless of grip, no grip, one wheel off the ground etc. This why race cars use them, due to their stiff suspension and anti-roll bars causing low droop and a tendancy to lift wheels over kerbs etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Functionally speaking, wavetrac is by far superior to the rest.
Functionally, the full plated OS diff is the most efficient differential due to being able to create the highest percentage lock-up of all types.

Basically these are some guidelines for using the different diffs.

For a mainly road car, with occasional trackwork where the suspension droop is adequate to not cause a lifted wheel, the Quaife diff is preferable.

If there is any possibility of lifting a wheel a Wavetrac is preferential.

For maximum traction and lock-up and much better adjustability, but will require more maintenance and not fit and forget, the full plated diff such as the OS, is preferable.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 07:03 AM   #58
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Good post Techevo.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 07:30 AM   #59
FormerRotor
Major
FormerRotor's Avatar
22
Rep
1,466
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d, M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MD

iTrader: (4)

^+1
__________________

My Picture Threads (Oldest to Newest): 1 2 3
Join BMW CCA! (Use my link and I get credit )
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 11:02 AM   #60
taibanl
Brigadier General
taibanl's Avatar
65
Rep
3,648
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NA

iTrader: (4)

+2 thanks
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #61
Killerfish2012
Major
21
Rep
1,416
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
+2 thanks
taibanl = taliban?
__________________
E90 335I: FBO +wavetrac LSD
E92 M3: K&N, Rouge Engineering Pulleys, Macht Schnell Test Pipes, Pagid S, V1
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 01:54 PM   #62
tigermack
OPN DIFF
tigermack's Avatar
Hong Kong
17
Rep
1,290
Posts

 
Drives: 06' 330i MT TiAg
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pacific Ocean

iTrader: (11)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to tigermack
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
Super lock or TCD?
Super lock.
__________________
M-tech front\Hartge CF lip\blacklines\M3 wheel\BMW P.E.\BMS powerbox\ST coils\BBS GT4

e36 - racecar - SCCA STX #188

Autocross vids https://www.youtube.com/user/tigermack
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 02:34 PM   #63
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Sweet. I'm leaning towards the Super Lock too.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 03:45 PM   #64
taibanl
Brigadier General
taibanl's Avatar
65
Rep
3,648
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techevo View Post
I



A Quaife isn’t a 1 way, 1.5 way or 2 way diff. This classification isn’t used for a non locking torsen (TORque SENsing) helical diff. The Quaife still transfers torque under deceleration.



True for the Quaife, but completely wrong for the OS. One major benefit of a plated LSD such as the OS, is it’s ability to lock-up regardless of grip, no grip, one wheel off the ground etc. This why race cars use them, due to their stiff suspension and anti-roll bars causing low droop and a tendancy to lift wheels over kerbs etc.



F

For a mainly road car, with occasional trackwork where the suspension droop is adequate to not cause a lifted wheel, the Quaife diff is preferable.

If there is any possibility of lifting a wheel a Wavetrac is preferential.


For maximum traction and lock-up and much better adjustability, but will require more maintenance and not fit and forget, the full plated diff such as the OS, is preferable.
Right now I have stock suspension so obviously I have enough flex that both wheels stay on the ground. Anyone know how stiff the BMW performance suspension is? Will I be ok with a Quaife? Is Maintenance the only downside to Wavetrac over Quaife?
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 04:21 PM   #65
335dFan
Jumping Jack Flash
335dFan's Avatar
United_States
13
Rep
1,084
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oregon (near Portland)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
Right now I have stock suspension so obviously I have enough flex that both wheels stay on the ground. Anyone know how stiff the BMW performance suspension is? Will I be ok with a Quaife? Is Maintenance the only downside to Wavetrac over Quaife?
As a point of reference, VAC Motorsports is putting a Quaife on mine, and my suspension is going to be modded as follows: M3 Rear Subframe Bushings, all the M3 Suspension Components Kit from GetBMWParts.com (front and rear arms, both sways), AC Schnitzer Springs, and JRZ RS1 dampers. I mention this because VAC is still suggesting Quaife is best for me. Granted I will only track a couple of times a year at HPDE.
__________________
Mods-Etc: Quaife LSD w/VAC finned diff cover, M3 Rear SF Bushings, M3 sways & OEM Susp Front/Rear Cmpnt Kits ('cept strut brace), GC Caster/Camber Plates, AC Schnitzer M3 Sport Springs, JRZ RS1 dampers, JBD 100%, Goodrich SS brake lines, non-stggrd APEX ARC-8 18" wheels with Nitto Motivo tires (winter OEM 17" wheels and Blizzak LM-25).
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2013, 04:33 PM   #66
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
44
Rep
2,676
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Don't forget to upgrade your differential bushings as well. Makes sense to do it when your differential is getting done.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST