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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Mak's Stage 3 Sound upgrade with P88RS JL XD600/6 JL 1000/1 JL 12W7 Focal 100KRS



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      02-12-2013, 07:22 PM   #23
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BTW, speaking of frequency gaps, I currently have the sub low-passed at 50Hz and the midbass high-passed at ~65Hz, both at 24dB slopes, at the suggestion of a fellow AE SBP-15 user. Sounds excellent and makes for a very smooth transition.
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      02-13-2013, 09:46 AM   #24
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Nice, Very Nice a fellow audio junkie. I've got a few toys of my own in my E90.
Nice head unit btw, I've got a Kenwood DMR for now but for better tuning will be getting Pio80 (somewhat) similar to yours?? Congrats on your equipment.

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      02-13-2013, 05:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RioGrandeValley View Post
Nice, Very Nice a fellow audio junkie. I've got a few toys of my own in my E90.
Nice head unit btw, I've got a Kenwood DMR for now but for better tuning will be getting Pio80 (somewhat) similar to yours?? Congrats on your equipment.

Tomato
thanks, P80RS is fantastic headunit. Parrot BT kit and iphone / ipod all in one option in a single HU. I hope you enjoy it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
BTW, speaking of frequency gaps, I currently have the sub low-passed at 50Hz and the midbass high-passed at ~65Hz, both at 24dB slopes, at the suggestion of a fellow AE SBP-15 user. Sounds excellent and makes for a very smooth transition.

Good to hear that.

I've tried playing earthquakes upto 200Hz (mind you that they are breaking) and today they played better compared to last time. Since this third stage, I have fed them 150W and previously they were being run by 70-75W only.

I must say that they played really well on 50-90% of volume. They start loosing their authority if you increase the volume > 90%, yet no signs of clipping.

I think that these plastic boxes are culprit and they need some sort of sound deadening.
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      02-13-2013, 06:13 PM   #26
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I have enjoyed reading all of this but have to confess to not understanding too much.
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      02-14-2013, 07:24 PM   #27
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Many SQ competitors over and underlap frequencies. It's no biggie!

Here is a quote from greef over at talk audio:

Quote:
They don't require a gap IF both drivers are outputting at the same level. Generally a car sub is tuned with a louder bass section. So, a 24dB/octave lowpass filter reduces the level by 24dB every time you double frequency. If your sub was 24dB louder than your mids and you set the crossover at 40Hz, the sub wouldnt actually be at equal power with the woofer until it was playing 80Hz. Thus you are wasting a lot of signal with your woofers into output that wont be hurt, and is possibly interfering with the bass.

So, with an 80Hz highpass (on mid bass), if your sub was very subtly, you'd lowpass it at 80Hz. This might sound good if you're deadening and acoustic treatment is tomblike and you never drive anywhere... If for example, your bass was 12db louder than the mids, then you'd choose a half octave gap. I chose a quarter octave gap cos i chose an arbitrary 6dB of subwoofer gain. So at 80Hz, if you were to have this 6dB boost, you'd be correct to lowpass at 70Hz, The only risk of running the sub higher is that you will reach a frequency where the bass becomes obviously locateable from the boot. It's a trial and error exercise. Despite the fact a 24dB filter technically doesnt need a gap or phase inversion, once car acoustics come into play this can alter. The best possible setting is the one that makes you smile most
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      02-20-2013, 07:47 AM   #28
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Hello Makkan

Could you help us sort an audio problem with our E93 335, the boot got wet and the amp died, we got a replacement amp and fitted it but the speakers are dead. I got some second hand replecemnt speakers to fit and need help with this.

Also to check the amp is working ok and do we need more speakers. Located near Canary wharf.
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      02-23-2013, 06:23 PM   #29
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Been away for a while. Although video cannot capture the true sound quality...but here is a shot video showing the clarity of sound system

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      03-02-2013, 02:48 PM   #30
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Few updates on under seat mid bass drivers.
I have compared Jehnerts and Dynaudio underseat mid bass drivers and they were out very soon.

I'm back to SWS-8.

Going to try Morels during stage 4 (last stage).

Stage 4 consist of
1- Dex- P99RS (HU, complete active 4 way out, 4 DACs, uses its DAC rather using ipod's DAC while playing music).
2- Morel 9 inch underseats (which can take 200W each).

Here is a quick comparison of the two drivers I'm considering;

Left column is Elate 9 and right column is ADMW SW9




I am inclided toward Elate 9 woofer and reasons are;
a) 1 dB more sensitive (may not be significant for many)
b) Resonance frquency is 38Hz
c) Q/T 0.59 which is less than ADMW SW9
d) VAS is 40L which is less than ADMW SW9

The only benefit ADMW has better xmax (8.5mm) over Elate 9's xmax (4.75mm).

Any suggestions guys?
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      03-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00
Few updates on under seat mid bass drivers.
I have compared Jehnerts and Dynaudio underseat mid bass drivers and they were out very soon.

I'm back to SWS-8.

Going to try Morels during stage 4 (last stage).

Stage 4 consist of
1- Dex- P99RS (HU, complete active 4 way out, 4 DACs, uses its DAC rather using ipod's DAC while playing music).
2- Morel 9 inch underseats (which can take 200W each).

Here is a quick comparison of the two drivers I'm considering;

Left column is Elate 9 and right column is ADMW SW9




I am inclided toward Elate 9 woofer and reasons are;
a) 1 dB more sensitive (may not be significant for many)
b) Resonance frquency is 38Hz
c) Q/T 0.59 which is less than ADMW SW9
d) VAS is 40L which is less than ADMW SW9

The only benefit ADMW has better xmax (8.5mm) over Elate 9's xmax (4.75mm).

Any suggestions guys?
Mak,

I'm using the HCW-10s, and before I used the HCW-8s, which predate the Elates and I believe are very similar, if not identical. These drivers work great, with the 10s having a bit more authority. VP described the ADMWs as peaky, which I believe is due to the high QTc. I therefore believe the Elates will be the right choice for you.

Oh, and the xmax for the ADMW is two-way, so 4.25mm one way.

Just be prepared to hack your underseat enclosures quite severely to make these fit!!!
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      03-03-2013, 09:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Mak,

I'm using the HCW-10s
Top man

B/w how did you fit those? Any photos / your thread fitting them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
, and before I used the HCW-8s, which predate the Elates and I believe are very similar, if not identical. These drivers work great, with the 10s having a bit more authority. VP described the ADMWs as peaky, which I believe is due to the high QTc. I therefore believe the Elates will be the right choice for you.

Oh, and the xmax for the ADMW is two-way, so 4.25mm one way.

Just be prepared to hack your underseat enclosures quite severely to make these fit!!!
Lets hope Elates work for me. Thanks for your re-assurance.

Re: ADMW, morel website suggests 8.5mm linear excursion and I assume that its one way.

I am hoping that with spacers, Elate 9 will fit in OEM boxes. Making new custom boxes will be pain in bum.
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      03-03-2013, 07:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
Those adapters seemed like a very poor attempt at copying the one I used to make. The issues about the screws was something I ran into during testing which is why I used undercut machine screws which have flat surfaces both at the top and the bottom. I'm not sure how the alignment of the holes could be messed up since the spacing is common.



Are those 344is ads speakers in your car now?...I used to have the original 320is in my car in college and I havent heard anything sound as good as those since then.
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      03-03-2013, 08:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Are those 344is ads speakers in your car now?...I used to have the original 320is in my car in college and I havent heard anything sound as good as those since then.
Yes I have them in my car now.
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      03-03-2013, 08:59 PM   #35
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Mak,

I have the ADMWs in my car right now. I've had the hardest time getting them to blend with my Morel SC10. I suspect that the ADMWs are a bit underpowered right now but I should know for sure in a couple of weeks. I'm in the process of replacing my Zapco DC amps with another set of amps and a new processor.
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      03-04-2013, 05:22 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
Mak,

I have the ADMWs in my car right now. I've had the hardest time getting them to blend with my Morel SC10. I suspect that the ADMWs are a bit underpowered right now but I should know for sure in a couple of weeks. I'm in the process of replacing my Zapco DC amps with another set of amps and a new processor.
MGuy
Please let me know your findings. My plan is to run Elate from 2 bridged channels of XD600/6 so feeding them approx 200W. I have scooped my XD600/6 and it gave 220W clip free signals on bridged channels.

I have got my elates delivered today. Sounds like its going to be very difficult job to fit these in OEM enclosures. Problem is its cage, which is wide and get restriction due to blend / bend in the OEM enclosure.

How did you fit ADMWs?
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      03-04-2013, 06:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
MGuy
Please let me know your findings. My plan is to run Elate from 2 bridged channels of XD600/6 so feeding them approx 200W. I have scooped my XD600/6 and it gave 220W clip free signals on bridged channels.

I have got my elates delivered today. Sounds like its going to be very difficult job to fit these in OEM enclosures. Problem is its cage, which is wide and get restriction due to blend / bend in the OEM enclosure.

How did you fit ADMWs?
I hacked the crap out of the OEM enclosure

Actually, it wasn't that bad. I used a 3/4" MDF spacer and I grinded down all the reinforcing ribs on the bottom of the enclosure. The ADMW actually is still too high for the M3 seats so instead of installing the OEM grill over it, I installed the Morel grill. Even then, the seat rail smashes down on the grill a bit. Luckily, the ADMW doesn't have enough excursion to make that an issue. Finally, I didn't want to cut the carpet to accommodate the Morel grill so I kind of just rolled the excess under. Its not the prettiest installation but I'm going to see how this increase in power goes. If it still doesn't work out, I'll probably look for something that is a better fit like a Gladen or Jehnert. The amp I'm connecting the AMDW to is an Audison LRx 4.5. I will be bridging the 4 channels down to 2 so power output will be very similar to yours. I think the rating is 260W.

My other amp will be an Audison LRx 5.1k which will run the tweeters, mids and sub.
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      03-06-2013, 03:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
I hacked the crap out of the OEM enclosure

Actually, it wasn't that bad. I used a 3/4" MDF spacer and I grinded down all the reinforcing ribs on the bottom of the enclosure. The ADMW actually is still too high for the M3 seats so instead of installing the OEM grill over it, I installed the Morel grill. Even then, the seat rail smashes down on the grill a bit. Luckily, the ADMW doesn't have enough excursion to make that an issue. Finally, I didn't want to cut the carpet to accommodate the Morel grill so I kind of just rolled the excess under. Its not the prettiest installation but I'm going to see how this increase in power goes. If it still doesn't work out, I'll probably look for something that is a better fit like a Gladen or Jehnert. The amp I'm connecting the AMDW to is an Audison LRx 4.5. I will be bridging the 4 channels down to 2 so power output will be very similar to yours. I think the rating is 260W.

My other amp will be an Audison LRx 5.1k which will run the tweeters, mids and sub.
You are like one of my frined who only use Audison amps. He has Lrx6.9 and recently bought Vrx.

Thanks for the hint on hacking the OEM enclosure. After buying elate, I realised why people go for AMDW.

The rear basket of Elate is wider compared to the cage of AMDW and hence AMDW can be fitted in OEM boxes.
I'll try and see if I can fit Elates in OEM box (looking impossible), otherwise I may have to make custom box.
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      03-06-2013, 03:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
You are like one of my frined who only use Audison amps. He has Lrx6.9 and recently bought Vrx.

Thanks for the hint on hacking the OEM enclosure. After buying elate, I realised why people go for AMDW.

The rear basket of Elate is wider compared to the cage of AMDW and hence AMDW can be fitted in OEM boxes.
I'll try and see if I can fit Elates in OEM box (looking impossible), otherwise I may have to make custom box.
This is actually my first go at using Audison. Always wanted to but it was too expensive. Prior to this, I've had US made amps like Soundstream (back when it was still actually made in the US), Phoenix Gold (also the old school version), and Zapco.
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      03-06-2013, 03:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
The rear basket of Elate is wider compared to the cage of AMDW and hence AMDW can be fitted in OEM boxes.
I'll try and see if I can fit Elates in OEM box (looking impossible), otherwise I may have to make custom box.
Just hack the bottom out that's what I did. Close the hole with Dynamat (from the inside). The Dynamat will rest against the bottom floor pan, so it's rigid, rigid enough for mid-bass.
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      03-07-2013, 07:40 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Just hack the bottom out that's what I did. Close the hole with Dynamat (from the inside). The Dynamat will rest against the bottom floor pan, so it's rigid, rigid enough for mid-bass.
Kaigoss
Any chances of photos when you did it.
My problem is the ridge / bend in the OEM enclosure which is opposite to the door. See the ridge in the top of enclosure in this photo;


Since, Elate has wider cage/ base and that hits the ridge / bend of the OEM enclosure.

I can cut it open but then sound will be going into that direction as well.

Or the other option is not build custome under seat enclosures.
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      03-07-2013, 01:01 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Just hack the bottom out that's what I did. Close the hole with Dynamat (from the inside). The Dynamat will rest against the bottom floor pan, so it's rigid, rigid enough for mid-bass.
Kaigoss
Any chances of photos when you did it.
My problem is the ridge / bend in the OEM enclosure which is opposite to the door. See the ridge in the top of enclosure in this photo;


Since, Elate has wider cage/ base and that hits the ridge / bend of the OEM enclosure.

I can cut it open but then sound will be going into that direction as well.

Or the other option is not build custome under seat enclosures.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550048

You may have to move the driver more towards the door since that ridge is also in the metal floor pan. You will have to do some dry fitting to find the right spot.
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      03-07-2013, 05:07 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550048

You may have to move the driver more towards the door since that ridge is also in the metal floor pan. You will have to do some dry fitting to find the right spot.

I thought so that by moving it toward the door it would fit. However I was concerned about it getting raised slightly and touching the seat base.

After I read your thread, I guess I can try it first without cutting the bottom of the enclosure and if no luck, then by cutting the bottom.

thanks for the link mate. So are you using them as mid bass or subs?
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      03-07-2013, 05:17 PM   #44
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Reading all this has made me think i NEED to start my install soon. Just the morels and jehnerts for now.
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