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      02-18-2013, 11:28 AM   #23
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So it's now acceptable for SA's to not do their job (i.e. know their product)? And instead of raising the bar for them, we lower it so they don't have to be accountable and then bring somebody else in to supplement? Wow. Sends a great message overall. iDrive is not that complicated anyway.
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      02-18-2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM3S
Another stupid idea from BMW.

I think simply training the sales people and educating them on the product they are selling should be the first step.

I wanted to order a individual BMW and pay the extra for an individual color and the entire sales staff had no idea what I was talking about. They were telling me the colors I wanted didnt exist even though members on here routinely order them......
I had the same problem.
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      02-18-2013, 11:51 AM   #25
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The reason for this is due to massive dealership turn over. Try working at a dealership and see how easy it is to sit down and try to get product knowledge when you either have A) an uppity sales manager/GM who jumps on you when you sit down or B) work in a very busy store.. good luck trying to learn while you are selling a car
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      02-18-2013, 11:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvieso
So it's now acceptable for SA's to not do their job (i.e. know their product)? And instead of raising the bar for them, we lower it so they don't have to be accountable and then bring somebody else in to supplement? Wow. Sends a great message overall. iDrive is not that complicated anyway.
They are commission paid, so if they were told they had to do this to keep the job then there will be no problem.

But no...
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      02-18-2013, 12:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampfer
The reason for this is due to massive dealership turn over. Try working at a dealership and see how easy it is to sit down and try to get product knowledge when you either have A) an uppity sales manager/GM who jumps on you when you sit down or B) work in a very busy store.. good luck trying to learn while you are selling a car
They have to be certified to even sell. There is zero excuse regardless. You can sell 20+ cars a month and still know your product and still be there to earn another customer. Period.
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      02-18-2013, 12:31 PM   #28
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Thumbs up The Reason

Sales people are commissioned based & do need to be certified. Sales of any type is a NOW business...not 2 weeks from now or months, sometime even years. We all have bills & need to put food on the table.
I think its a Excellent idea for that customer. Who's not ready to buy yet. A BMW Genius would be able to help that client and not waste the time of a sales person. Who needs to provide for their family. Great idea especially since they(BMW Genius) are not commissioned based.
I would love to just talk with customers and get paid, but that is not the case in sales. Not only do SALES people not get paid if they don't sale the vehicle. They will also get fired. If they don't sale cars.
We all know the product...We have to non negotiable. We just don't get paid for only TALKING!!! Unacceptable
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      02-18-2013, 12:37 PM   #29
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RANT TIME!

First of all I love my apple products and I do understand why their business model works.... BUT that doesn't mean I like it. The people at the apple store are like the uppity hipster baristas at the fancy cafe. They look down on you when ironically they are the ones working there and you are the one paying like 5 bucks for a cup of regular coffee (or in Apples case 600-800 dollars for an iPad).

The "geniuses" at the genius bar don't actually know anything, they are like the tech people you get when you call in about your internet going down. They tell you to reset your model and make sure it's PLUGGED in! Never do they ever actually offer any useful advice.

Therefore, if you are part of the tech illiterate group then yes the genius bar would be helpful but besides that, worthless
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      02-18-2013, 12:56 PM   #30
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Just like any visit to the dealership I fully expect to know more than the dealer about the car I want to buy. I've never understood how/why salespeople don't do as much homework as their customers.

I will say that when I purchased a Subaru that the salespeople seemed to also be enthusiasts and knew a lot about their product. Not the same experience @ BMW.
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      02-18-2013, 01:11 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Quite a few forum members have been doing that "BMW Genius" job in this forum and others for more than 10 years, so this is nothing new to talk about.

When I have to tell a SA/CA/parts or even a tech guy how to do his/her job then something is not right with BMW training.
I told a tech my car didn't come with an oil cooler he said all LCI cars do... Went out and said never seen that before
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      02-18-2013, 01:17 PM   #32
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I think this is a great idea but not sure if bmw will be able to execute this notion in practice.

By purchasing a vehicle from BMW it is clear there are underlying issues within the sales and service force.

In short the sales staff need to be upskilled and dead wood needs to be removed.

Therefore the notion of adding a genious into the dealership could be instilled within the sales force if they were upskilled and educated with product knowledge.

When i purchased my vehicle, all the sales staff could tell me wa that it looks really nice it drives really nice.

Very low level of product knowledge.

The service function do seem to be a bit more concious but try to baffle you with science to hide the fact that they have no idea on any fixes, resolutions, ideas and do not fully understand the consequences.

It seems as though though the solely rely on communication from BMW direct and find it difficult to stray away and use intiative.

Again, upskilling and product knowledge would be affective here.

Overall although the genious notion is good, i strongly doubt it will tackle the core issues within dealerships.

:-/
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      02-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #33
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It'll probably be a bunch of 18-25 Year olds with iPads. The iPads will have details of all of the BMW acronyms and videos. More a product display than actual product knowledge.

They tried this with ipad Kiosks at my dealership- the kiosks remain empty most of the time- kids that come in with parents typically use them.

Now the iPads will walk around the store (with a human attached) to encourage use.
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      02-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #34
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so these are in addition to the assholes that already fill the showrooms?
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      02-18-2013, 01:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
This is for the BMW i brand only.
So you guys are REALLY copying Apple huh. That's sort of unexpected from a German company, I have to say.
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      02-18-2013, 02:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
They have to be certified to even sell. There is zero excuse regardless. You can sell 20+ cars a month and still know your product and still be there to earn another customer. Period.


They do not have to be certified to sell.. My brother used to sell BMWs. You think sitting down and taking an hour to two hours a day to learn VANOS is easy when you have a manager telling you you need to average X amount of calls per day, see X amount of customers per day, deal with customer paper works, talk to service customers every day, and so forth. There are times a salesmen will be at point for 5 hours out of his 8 hour shift. If you want to make a sale you must be on the floor as much as possible. meaning why do you sit at your desk refreshing your knowledge when you could be on that lot/floor meeting customers.

Also they are commission meaning they only get paid to sell not sit down and answer some tech head's questions when majority of your customers don't even ask.... You think a guy who is going to make 100 dollars off your BMW is going to give a SHIT about your car? Yes, many dealerships are going to no haggle systems and paying there salesmen 100 bucks per car no matter what they sell. Also how many salesman do 20+ cars a month? The only reason you see salesman in BMWs is due to BMW's employee lease where they can get a 50k 3 series for 300 a month.


Here is the cert test for a BMW.... Do a walk around with the managers on every car.... End. BMW itself requires only that the salespeople take a test every month. Testing does not train people... in every dealership you get one sales guy that knows it and does everyone's tests for a fee.

Commission does not create informed work force. It creates a high turn around work force where only the old timers stick about and new salesmen stay for like 4 months. You want a sales force with a lot of knowledge then you do not want the current sales model as the only thing that matters is if the person can sell not how much he knows about the 7 series.
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      02-18-2013, 02:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampfer
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
They have to be certified to even sell. There is zero excuse regardless. You can sell 20+ cars a month and still know your product and still be there to earn another customer. Period.


They do not have to be certified to sell.. My brother used to sell BMWs. You think sitting down and taking an hour to two hours a day to learn VANOS is easy when you have a manager telling you you need to average X amount of calls per day, see X amount of customers per day, deal with customer paper works, talk to service customers every day, and so forth. There are times a salesmen will be at point for 5 hours out of his 8 hour shift. If you want to make a sale you must be on the floor as much as possible. meaning why do you sit at your desk refreshing your knowledge when you could be on that lot/floor meeting customers.

Also they are commission meaning they only get paid to sell not sit down and answer some tech head's questions when majority of your customers don't even ask.... You think a guy who is going to make 100 dollars off your BMW is going to give a SHIT about your car? Yes, many dealerships are going to no haggle systems and paying there salesmen 100 bucks per car no matter what they sell. Also how many salesman do 20+ cars a month? The only reason you see salesman in BMWs is due to BMW's employee lease where they can get a 50k 3 series for 300 a month.


Here is the cert test for a BMW.... Do a walk around with the managers on every car.... End. BMW itself requires only that the salespeople take a test every month. Testing does not train people... in every dealership you get one sales guy that knows it and does everyone's tests for a fee.

Commission does not create informed work force. It creates a high turn around work force where only the old timers stick about and new salesmen stay for like 4 months. You want a sales force with a lot of knowledge then you do not want the current sales model as the only thing that matters is if the person can sell not how much he knows about the 7 series.
Yes you do have to be certified if you want to stay employed and receive factory spiffs.

There are a few sales people who sell 20+ cars or a month, but they are pure professionals and know the art of balance and creating value while earning business. Not the norm. There are order takers, door junkies and then there a professional sales people.
The first two are lucky to have good months and don't last long accordingly.

The very reason I deal w/a sales manager every time I buy a new car.
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      02-18-2013, 03:00 PM   #38
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As I said before this is exclusively for the BMWi brand that will introduce a new vehicle selling concept exclusively to the brand. And staff will be educated des to accommodate the range of features that come with the BMWi brand of which the car is but one.

BMWi vehicles will be sold off site from regular BMW dealers in order to enhance the customer experience with this exciting new mobility concept. With stand alone showrooms in major cities - one such showroom is already open in London and with many more expected in time for the i3 launch later this year.

The concept is similar to specific M. Brand showrooms that can be found in Russia and Singapore with one opening in Shanghai soon.

As a PM sent to me will not be named to spare embarrassment but you will still have showrooms with sales assistants who may not be as knowledgeable in regards to the following (this is now that the 4er is known) "My CA tell me that it is not going to be the 4er , it is going to be the 3er and the M3 Remains because his customers are in revolt over the M4 that BMW have decided to reject the 4er?" Seriously?
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      02-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuiter23 View Post
...

SA's and sales reps should be able to answer your questions, or else they are not competent enough for the job.
Wonderful as that sounds, in practice, tons of things are sold by folks who don't know every little detail about them, and it's naive to think they should or would.

Do you really think the salesperson at a Best Buy knows everything about all the PCs and other devices they may sell? OK, so Best Buy is one end of the selling spectrum, but it's the same at the other end. Do you think when companies like IBM or Accenture sell hardware and professional consulting services, engagements and products that can run into hundreds of millions of dollars, that the partners and vice presidents making that sale know everything about the hardware and software they are selling? Finally, by way of providing a couple non-IT illustrations, go to a high-end appliance store and ask them what distinguishes a Blue Star or Wolf range from Thermador, GE Profile or Kenmore. Or, go to a store that sells kitchen and bath hardware and ask a similar question.

Most salespeople know enough to answer most questions, but very few in nearly every industry know all the technical details of the products they are selling. Even the technical support folks don't know every detail.

For example, when I bought a bluetooth earpiece for my phone, I couldn't get the green light indicating the thing was connected to the phone to come on. I called tech support and the guy went through all sorts of gyrations to try to get the thing to work. I had the thing plugged into its charger and was pushing the right buttons, and I told the tech guy this at the outset of the call. It turns out that when it's plugged into a power source, it won't connect to the phone. That wasn't mentioned in the owner's manual and the tech support guy didn't know it either. We only figured it out when I unplugged the thing and suddenly the green light came on.
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      02-18-2013, 04:26 PM   #40
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Maybe they're just hiring the Apple kids to pay them $8/hr so the sales people can hand off the guys who need to exhibit their vast knowledge of the brand endlessly, so the salesman can talk to someone who's ready to actually buy a car. I'm pretty sure those types are more prevalent at a BMW dealer than a Honda dealer. From a business point of view, I want people who can close more than people who get caught up for hours in a discussion about spring rates.
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      02-18-2013, 04:30 PM   #41
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They should start here for the Geniuses.
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      02-18-2013, 04:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Ritz View Post
I already find SA fairly pointless..
+1

If I could have bought my car from a vending machine, it would have been an better process.
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      02-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Quite a few forum members have been doing that "BMW Genius" job in this forum and others for more than 10 years, so this is nothing new to talk about.

When I have to tell a SA/CA/parts or even a tech guy how to do his/her job then something is not right with BMW training.


Yes we have.
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      02-18-2013, 06:12 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Yes you do have to be certified if you want to stay employed and receive factory spiffs.

There are a few sales people who sell 20+ cars or a month, but they are pure professionals and know the art of balance and creating value while earning business. Not the norm. There are order takers, door junkies and then there a professional sales people.
The first two are lucky to have good months and don't last long accordingly.

The very reason I deal w/a sales manager every time I buy a new car.


No, you only have to be certified to get spiffs (which BMW puts out very few). Most dealerships will not fire people over certification. A dealership only cares about numbers and a good GM and salesmanager will look the other way. For salesman if he sells between 10-15 cars then no manager will care what he does as long as he keeps his numbers up. Salesman will get certified and thats only due to testing being spread out over 90 or more days.

Most of the 20+ salesmen are what they call Bonecollectors meaning they get their numbers due to house deals. If you talk to a manager to get your deal then the manager will either sell the car himself and put it in the name of a salesman he likes or hand you off to a salesman he likes. When you see 20+ salesman they are either bone collectors, internet salesman, or old established sales people who no longer have to greet people to get sales... there business is all referrals.

Also it is very naive to expect someone to remember every detail of a car.
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