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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > My 335d: Injectors, Carbon, DDE



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      02-26-2013, 03:36 PM   #45
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So, got the car back. Seems to be running good. All systems are ready and no SES light. I will give it 5,000 miles and see if the Engine Harness was the main source of the problem for the DDE, injector failures. I won't be surprised if it is as it would be a great explanation for these electronic failures!
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      02-26-2013, 06:11 PM   #46
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135i_vs, I think time will tell if the wiring harness is at fault.

I have been now driving for almost a week a 2013 535i GT (nice car) while they are trying to find why the injector on cylinder #2 keep failing.

To resolve the problem, the dealer opened a PUMA case. BMW installed some special logging software on my car and they asked me for the permission for the technician to drive it home tonight (~40 miles). Tomorrow, they will download the log from the car for further analysis.
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      02-26-2013, 10:55 PM   #47
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So, got the car back. Seems to be running good. All systems are ready and no SES light. I will give it 5,000 miles and see if the Engine Harness was the main source of the problem for the DDE, injector failures. I won't be surprised if it is as it would be a great explanation for these electronic failures!
140 mile test drive and SES light is back on for Zero Quantity Adaptation!

I'm pretty mad right now that FSE from BMW NA don't know how to accurately diagnose their cars!

I told them several times "check for carbon build up". However, they never did.

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      02-27-2013, 05:48 AM   #48
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      02-27-2013, 08:25 AM   #49
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They finally agreed to take off the intake manifold to do a through inspection! At least I have a bunch of new parts on the car!

So far service from this BMW dealership has been superb (when is comes to scheduling, loaner cars, billing).
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      02-27-2013, 01:12 PM   #50
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140 mile test drive and SES light is back on for Zero Quantity Adaptation!

I'm pretty mad right now that FSE from BMW NA don't know how to accurately diagnose their cars!

I told them several times "check for carbon build up". However, they never did.
Eh..the FSE is still.beholden to Germany. OEMS trying to protect their proprietary info. Silly IMO.
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      02-27-2013, 03:40 PM   #51
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Eh..the FSE is still.beholden to Germany. OEMS trying to protect their proprietary info. Silly IMO.
Since when is carbon buildup proprietary

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      02-27-2013, 07:23 PM   #52
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Since when is carbon buildup proprietary

Hehe
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      02-28-2013, 01:49 AM   #53
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Since when is carbon buildup proprietary

Maybe it is aerospace quality carbon.
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      02-28-2013, 09:46 AM   #54
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Maybe it is aerospace quality carbon.
Dealers ship it out west to the company which makes carbon fiber components for BMWAG
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      02-28-2013, 12:25 PM   #55
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140 mile test drive and SES light is back on for Zero Quantity Adaptation!

I'm pretty mad right now that FSE from BMW NA don't know how to accurately diagnose their cars!

I told them several times "check for carbon build up". However, they never did.
Dang it, I was really hoping they had yours fixed as I seem to be right behind you.

Replacing the wiring to the engine and injectors means they suspect an electrical issue; or are trying to rule out an electrical issue because they don't really understand what's going on. The repairs at this point are diagnostic.

Missing the carbon check step is concerning. I'm very, very interested to hear what you find.

Once BMW engineering understands root cause, failure rates, and repair process they would typically put procedures together and make them available to the whole service network. That is clearly not in place, meaning this failure is not yet understood, or it is so uncommon that it's more work to package up all the info than deal with the isolated cases.

It would be worth contacting BMW NA directly and ask if you can get access to the engineers that understand this issue to skip the rest of this trial and error phase if they do indeed understand it.

If they don't understand it... personally I would start the Lemon Law process.

Congratulations and condolences on breaking new ground.
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      02-28-2013, 01:15 PM   #56
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Dang it, I was really hoping they had yours fixed as I seem to be right behind you.

Replacing the wiring to the engine and injectors means they suspect an electrical issue; or are trying to rule out an electrical issue because they don't really understand what's going on. The repairs at this point are diagnostic.

Missing the carbon check step is concerning. I'm very, very interested to hear what you find.

Once BMW engineering understands root cause, failure rates, and repair process they would typically put procedures together and make them available to the whole service network. That is clearly not in place, meaning this failure is not yet understood, or it is so uncommon that it's more work to package up all the info than deal with the isolated cases.

It would be worth contacting BMW NA directly and ask if you can get access to the engineers that understand this issue to skip the rest of this trial and error phase if they do indeed understand it.

If they don't understand it... personally I would start the Lemon Law process.

Congratulations and condolences on breaking new ground.
As I mentioned before, I'd be damned if it was the electrical harness. I had a long sit down conversation with the shop foreman who explained what they did with my car so far and why they did it; also he was able to hear me out on my speculations of the problem. The code for "Zero Volume adaptation Value" is purely dependant on cylinder response relative to the amount of fuel sprayed during an overrun mode. If the cylinder does not respond as it is supposed to, the DDE throws a code for "Zero Volume Adaptation".
Supposedly my intake manifold was inspected (even though not mentioned in the reports) and there was build up, but they were not sure if it was excessive enough to throw the code(s)...

If the intake manifold and cylinder head swap does not fix the problem, then I am lost. At the end of the day, it is a piece of machine and it can be fixed. I am becoming more and more comfortable with the 335d's electronic and mechanical functions as my research continues!

BMW NA has been involved and so has the Field Service Engineer. They are trying to resolve this issue, but I also don't think they fully understand it. Unless, they are trying A, B, C, D first, before deciding on an expensive repair such as cylinder head replacement.

Meanwhile, roaming around in an X1.

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      02-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #57
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135i_vs, I think time will tell if the wiring harness is at fault.

I have been now driving for almost a week a 2013 535i GT (nice car) while they are trying to find why the injector on cylinder #2 keep failing.

To resolve the problem, the dealer opened a PUMA case. BMW installed some special logging software on my car and they asked me for the permission for the technician to drive it home tonight (~40 miles). Tomorrow, they will download the log from the car for further analysis.
Here is an update for my similar problems. I got my car back. The car had 3 fault codes: 4593 4AE6 and 4592. The code show injector 2 and 4 at fault.

Per BMW instruction (PUMA case), they cleared the fault codes and reprogrammed the car with the FSE to new level E89X-12-07-508. Except for the reprogramming, no parts or repair was done on the car. They drove the car for one day, scanned the ECU and found no fault code.

I hope this is fix!
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      03-18-2013, 08:16 PM   #58
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update

Update since I received my 335d back. 1 week ago it Triggered another SES light & brought in. Was the SCR. They replaced sensor under warranty. I got the car back 3 days ago & drove to Wisconsin. On the way back, it triggered the SES light again, this time p02d3 code. I think its another injector. UGH!!!!!
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      03-19-2013, 10:30 AM   #59
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Update since I received my 335d back. 1 week ago it Triggered another SES light & brought in. Was the SCR. They replaced sensor under warranty. I got the car back 3 days ago & drove to Wisconsin. On the way back, it triggered the SES light again, this time p02d3 code. I think its another injector. UGH!!!!!
That stinks. Did you take it to Knauz? It would be worth talking about the cycle repeating. You may still have to work through the series but push to have a BMW PUMA case opened. That's the one thing that they could have done earlier for me.
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      03-19-2013, 02:24 PM   #60
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You should check the tank and fuel filter to make sure there is no contamination. If dirt is going past the filter it might be going into your injectors or even the HPFP?

Just an idea.
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      03-24-2013, 04:35 PM   #61
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I took it back to Elmhurst because I was in a hurry. Luckily they immediately had BMW open a PUMA case, i didnt have to ask. The guys at elmhurst go out of their way to make sure I'm happy. BMW NA ordered them to remove intake & cylinder head, check for carbon, and snake one of those cameras on a wire into the engine, take pictures of all then send back to BMW. I should hear Monday on what the next steps are. Until then, I have a 2013 528xi with 70 miles on it as my loaner. It's nice but slow. Knatz BMW is next tho when Elmhurst runs out of ideas
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      04-05-2013, 10:00 AM   #62
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Just want to close out my story. I ended up trading my 335d in earlier this week and went with a VW TDI. It's a trade down and after 4 days I already miss the 335d performance, but I'm concerned my 160-mile daily commute was contributing factor to carbon and injector issues; and at 96,500 miles I have no more warranty options.

In the end I did not get great trade in value for my D but I did play 4 dealers off each other to get as high as I could. I found the value dropped significantly after the dealer can no longer CPO it. If you plan on driving and trading, keep that in mind.

It sounds like BMW may be getting a better handle on the injectors issue so hopefully the rest of you won't go through the long diagnostic process I did. Good luck and enjoy your Ds!
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      04-05-2013, 10:07 AM   #63
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Good luck with the VW DunkinV.
Stay tuned for my story, it has been 4+ months Dec, Jan, Feb, March since my car is in the shop.

I am hoping to keep the car, IF BMW has permanently fixed the issue.

By the way, there was never any carbon build up! It's simply excessive soot and tar. Actually dry carbon build up is very bad for any engines.

I'll post all the details soon with pics in a new thread which will be beneficial to others regarding injectors, cylinder head replacements, etc.

If it was not for the 335d's driving dynamics, I would have gotten rid of it a long time ago and get back into an M5. However, the car is just special. Maybe you will be back with a 2011 335d with low miles with all the bugs worked out!
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      04-05-2013, 01:55 PM   #64
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Good luck with the VW DunkinV.
Stay tuned for my story, it has been 4+ months Dec, Jan, Feb, March since my car is in the shop.

I am hoping to keep the car, IF BMW has permanently fixed the issue.

By the way, there was never any carbon build up! It's simply excessive soot and tar. Actually dry carbon build up is very bad for any engines.

I'll post all the details soon with pics in a new thread which will be beneficial to others regarding injectors, cylinder head replacements, etc.

If it was not for the 335d's driving dynamics, I would have gotten rid of it a long time ago and get back into an M5. However, the car is just special. Maybe you will be back with a 2011 335d with low miles with all the bugs worked out!
the carbon issue on my 09 335d seems to have been completely resolved. The techs at my local dealer replaced emissions sensors for a month before I found this board and requested a history check and look for carbon. When they opened the manifold they found a bad swirl flap linkage and a crap-ton of carbon.

That was January.

Last week I had an SES and thought the issue was back. My SA took good care to make sure that wasn't the case and had the engine completely scoped and inspected - so far no carbon scaring at all. The code ended up being a crack in the air filter housing.

Good luck with the VW and to those still riding the D. I am hoping to keep mine for the long haul (currently @ 48k miles)
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      04-19-2013, 01:49 AM   #65
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335 D and bad fuel injector

My 2010 335D just had an SES diagnostic saying #4 had a failed fuel injector at 57k. Warranty expired at 50k. The dealer wants $1300 to fix. This is my first Bimmer and it goes without saying that it will definitely be my last! The only other vehicle I have ever owned with a fuel injector problem was a Nissan Maxima back in 1996 that had 54k on it and and Nissan stepped up and replaced ALL of my injectors free of charge. I would expect a 2010 BMW to have better quality control than this! Hell, the 1999 Mercedes SLK my wife just sold had 193k on it and we never did a thing to it other than change the oil. Doesn't say much for BMW!

I intend to advertise my BMW experience in the Twin Cities's major newspaper's "classified" section next to the new BMW classified ads for a few months so others can be informed of this quality control problem. It will likely only dissuade 30 or 40 people from buying a new Bimmer but it gives me peace of mind that I did the right thing.
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      04-19-2013, 07:32 AM   #66
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Could be software related.
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