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      08-28-2007, 04:30 AM   #1
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Coilovers needed - faster and stronger, NOT lower

Ok. I have a dilemma.

I've ordered and have received the Morr Alloy VS7 rims. I have a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R's ready to be mounted on the rims. I've opted for maximum grip between track/street (dry only) and as such, I'm happy with the RE-01R selection, the one "problem" is that they're 275/30 at the rear... not the more "expected" 265/30. I cannot lower the car much if any because I'm worried about rubbing (front and rear) and I am already having some clearance problems (have the front aero lip) with the regular street driving in my area.

So. I need a suspension upgrade that'll respond in a much more aggressive fashion than the stock "sport" setup. I hear good things about KW2's (and KW3's) as well as PSS9's. But most commentary seems to be on the order of ride height. I don't want to lower the car... I just want to toughen it up (and I'll add some H&R sway bars as well). So, which product, KW or PSS9's will be able to keep the ride height "functional" and as the same time, improve the performance, the most? I've been told by some that while the KW's are excellent product, ride height drop is a requirement before they can get much stronger and that the PSS9's will perform better at a more comfortable height for my size tires and clearance issues. Any comments to this end? Anyone agree or disagree?

The car will see a mix of street, autocross and time trial use and I want to get the best "happy medium" for all the above.

Thanks in advance for any and all input!

-Daniel
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      08-28-2007, 11:21 AM   #2
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I love KW products. V2s and V3s will allow you to play with the dampener so you can adjust it to make it softer or stiffer and you can keep the stock height if you wish. Any coilover will allow you to adjust to your heart's desire, I think the slammed look is just that...for looks. You will bottom out and rub under really hard turns.
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      08-28-2007, 11:24 AM   #3
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I'd go with V3s if I had plans on tracking the car. Here is a buddy's car, suspension is KW V3's fully corner balanced and tuned to his spec. As you can see he is not that lowered at all, but he still has minor rubbing on really aggressive turns at some tracks, even with the fenders shaved off.

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      08-28-2007, 02:38 PM   #4
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You can "tighten it up" with any of the popular coilover set ups ... The reason your rubbing is the Bridgestones are not really true to size .... your 275s are really like 285s .... Bridgestones are a bit of cheater tire just like Advans.
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      08-28-2007, 06:41 PM   #5
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I thought that KWs had a minimum lowering of at least inch from stock.
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      08-28-2007, 08:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I thought that KWs had a minimum lowering of at least inch from stock.
You're absolutely right. I have yet to see a coilover kit that did not have some minimum lowering spec. Both the Bilsteins and KWs will lower the car even at the highest height settings.
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      08-28-2007, 10:00 PM   #7
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Why not just get the Bilstein HD shocks? Or are you trying to get a stiffer spring rate as well?
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      08-28-2007, 10:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourPtDrift View Post
Ok. I have a dilemma.

I've ordered and have received the Morr Alloy VS7 rims. I have a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R's ready to be mounted on the rims. I've opted for maximum grip between track/street (dry only) and as such, I'm happy with the RE-01R selection, the one "problem" is that they're 275/30 at the rear... not the more "expected" 265/30. I cannot lower the car much if any because I'm worried about rubbing (front and rear) and I am already having some clearance problems (have the front aero lip) with the regular street driving in my area.

So. I need a suspension upgrade that'll respond in a much more aggressive fashion than the stock "sport" setup. I hear good things about KW2's (and KW3's) as well as PSS9's. But most commentary seems to be on the order of ride height. I don't want to lower the car... I just want to toughen it up (and I'll add some H&R sway bars as well). So, which product, KW or PSS9's will be able to keep the ride height "functional" and as the same time, improve the performance, the most? I've been told by some that while the KW's are excellent product, ride height drop is a requirement before they can get much stronger and that the PSS9's will perform better at a more comfortable height for my size tires and clearance issues. Any comments to this end? Anyone agree or disagree?

The car will see a mix of street, autocross and time trial use and I want to get the best "happy medium" for all the above.

Thanks in advance for any and all input!

-Daniel

I have some full race spec shocks being developed right now. My TCKline coilover kit is available with only a few months time on them. This kit is the most agressive kit available on the mass market right now. It's damping values are stronger than the KW and Bilstein offerings. Included in this kit are already upgraded springs from TCK to provide a firmer, more sport/race oriented ride. Will sell at like new condition for $1,000.00 less than I paid. Adjustable camber plates included with up to 3.5 degrees negative up front. This is an incredible deal and the timing is just right. PM me if interested.
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      08-28-2007, 11:54 PM   #9
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I dunno how much you don't want to lower your car, but I would personally go with KW. They are at the top of my list as far as coilovers goes. PSS9s may not meet up to your expectations as much as KW V2s will/would.

Let me know if you are interested in either set up, as I can get either one.

thanks.

-Don
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      08-29-2007, 01:32 AM   #10
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KW V3 for sure.I'm pretty slammed but you can set it high.Although it will still drop you though but not really much lower then a stock sport setup the minimum drop that the other memeber are talking about is refering to the Stock non-sport package.
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      08-29-2007, 05:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wj4 View Post
I love KW products. V2s and V3s will allow you to play with the dampener so you can adjust it to make it softer or stiffer and you can keep the stock height if you wish. Any coilover will allow you to adjust to your heart's desire, I think the slammed look is just that...for looks. You will bottom out and rub under really hard turns.
I appreciate the nod for the KWs... but can you tell me why you did not select PSS9's? Doesn't mean that you're not enjoying the KW's... but how do you know you wouldn't have had a better solution with another product? What sort of track use does your car see?

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wj4 View Post
I'd go with V3s if I had plans on tracking the car. Here is a buddy's car, suspension is KW V3's fully corner balanced and tuned to his spec. As you can see he is not that lowered at all, but he still has minor rubbing on really aggressive turns at some tracks, even with the fenders shaved off.
Since I don't have a common frame of reference on the stock ride height/visual cues on a Mits Evo, while I can say the car "looks good" I really can't take much else from the photo. Also, I'm not certain how applicable KW's application on an Evo is when talking about E92 use. I have had great experience with Ground Control on NSX's. But they're not even an option for me on the E92. So, basically, success on the car I'm working with is the example I need.

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:16 AM   #13
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The V2's are absolutely wonderful for agressive street driving. I'm sure they perform very well on the track, but if you're serious, throw down the extra bit and get the TCKline. From what I understand they are best you can get, period.
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      08-29-2007, 05:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3This View Post
You can "tighten it up" with any of the popular coilover set ups ... The reason your rubbing is the Bridgestones are not really true to size .... your 275s are really like 285s .... Bridgestones are a bit of cheater tire just like Advans.
You know, while you may have posted in this thread to "help" all you've succeeded in doing is offend. The RE-01R is the highest specific performance street/track tire on the market today.... nothing cheap about it. There are hard and fast procedures for DOT approval and ratings... and tire sizing is NOT arbitrary. And Bridgestone, the exclusive tire manufacturer for F1 and a dominant provider throughout the FIA is a technology leader, both for commercial and competition application.

Don't confuse an aggressive blocked shoulder and tread pattern with a poorly sized tire - or suggest that someone who makes a selection for said product doesn't know what they're doing.

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I thought that KWs had a minimum lowering of at least inch from stock.
Ah ha! This is what I was looking for! Thanks!

I was very worried about this. Dropping an inch would be BAD news for me. I'm told that moving to the 19's on the e92 will give me a bit of ride height back... and that the drop from the KW's would help cancel some of this out. Any truth to this?

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHairsto View Post
You're absolutely right. I have yet to see a coilover kit that did not have some minimum lowering spec. Both the Bilsteins and KWs will lower the car even at the highest height settings.
Interesting. Do they lower the car the same for the same response?

Is there any "empirical" way of measuring their differences in performance?

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowbow View Post
Why not just get the Bilstein HD shocks? Or are you trying to get a stiffer spring rate as well?
Yep. You guessed it.

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg335 View Post
I have some full race spec shocks being developed right now. My TCKline coilover kit is available with only a few months time on them. This kit is the most agressive kit available on the mass market right now. It's damping values are stronger than the KW and Bilstein offerings. Included in this kit are already upgraded springs from TCK to provide a firmer, more sport/race oriented ride. Will sell at like new condition for $1,000.00 less than I paid. Adjustable camber plates included with up to 3.5 degrees negative up front. This is an incredible deal and the timing is just right. PM me if interested.
Sending you a PM now.

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald Donnington View Post
The V2's are absolutely wonderful for agressive street driving. I'm sure they perform very well on the track, but if you're serious, throw down the extra bit and get the TCKline. From what I understand they are best you can get, period.
aaron
Thank you for the suggestion... I am looking into them now.

-Daniel
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      08-29-2007, 05:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourPtDrift View Post
You know, while you may have posted in this thread to "help" all you've succeeded in doing is offend. The RE-01R is the highest specific performance street/track tire on the market today.... nothing cheap about it. There are hard and fast procedures for DOT approval and ratings... and tire sizing is NOT arbitrary. And Bridgestone, the exclusive tire manufacturer for F1 and a dominant provider throughout the FIA is a technology leader, both for commercial and competition application.

Don't confuse an aggressive blocked shoulder and tread pattern with a poorly sized tire - or suggest that someone who makes a selection for said product doesn't know what they're doing.

-Daniel

Is it just me or did you read the response from "M3 this" wrong I don't think he was trying to offend anyone, I think he was just saying some tires that have the same size (ie:275/30/19) actually vary between manufactuer.THE WORD "CHILL" COMES TO MIND
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      08-29-2007, 05:42 AM   #21
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jon, what in the hell are you doing up?
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      08-29-2007, 09:57 AM   #22
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I think the OP asked a simple, clear question:
What is the minimum drop on the Bilstein PSS9 and the KW2/3?
[edit]: 30mm for both in front.

There are published stats on this. The Bilstein/Krupp site states 30-50mm for the PSS9s. As I remember this question from a long distant thread, the KWs had a bit more of a mandatory drop. [edit: apparently my memory sucks, the published stats indicate that they both have a minimum drop of 30mm] But no one has provided the data that the OP asked for.

Surely KSfrogman or Don or Sam know the answer to this off the top of their heads.

Edit: Ok here are the data from the KW site:

Model Year of Constr
Type Engine Lowering (F/R)
mm
Inches MSRP
( $ )
Coilover Variant 1
3series (E90) Sedan 06+(390L) 30-60/25-55
1.2-2.3/0.9-2.1 1395
Coilover Variant 2
3series (E90) Sedan 06+(390L) 30-60/25-55
1.2-2.3/0.9-2.1 1725
Coilover Variant 3
3series (E90) Sedan 06+(390L) 30-60/25-55
1.2-2.3/0.9-2.1 1995
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Last edited by stressdoc; 08-29-2007 at 10:23 AM.
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