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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > World's 1st Single Turbo AWD N54: Vishnu/FFTEC Single Turbo Content



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      02-19-2013, 09:05 PM   #23
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Front End lift is insane! That's awesome!

Looks like stock suspension from here.
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      02-19-2013, 09:10 PM   #24
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Nice !!!

Never mind the blahblahblah, we want to see high 9s !
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      02-19-2013, 09:40 PM   #25
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Front End lift is insane! That's awesome!

Looks like stock suspension from here.
XI stock suspension is truly stock suspension. No such thing as OEM sport suspension for us. Makes for an exciting ride.
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      02-19-2013, 09:56 PM   #26
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XI stock suspension is truly stock suspension. No such thing as OEM sport suspension for us. Makes for an exciting ride.
Yeah, and its truly awful! haha....TC Kline FTW!

Glad to finally see a single turbo xi! Maybe I'll hold off on selling the xi now....
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      02-19-2013, 10:41 PM   #27
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Nice to see the xi getting some love, the difference in 25-50whp at levels over 500 shouldn't mean much. If this car gets a suspension it should run high 10s, can't believe they did single turbo before suspension but I'm glad they did.
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      02-19-2013, 10:49 PM   #28
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wow that thing is a beast
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      02-19-2013, 11:02 PM   #29
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Nice to see the xi getting some love, the difference in 25-50whp at levels over 500 shouldn't mean much. If this car gets a suspension it should run high 10s, can't believe they did single turbo before suspension but I'm glad they did.
You can use the power 95% of the time in an AWD car, unlike rwd. I miss my Subaru for that reason alone; making power sucks when you can't put it down except on a perfectly straight road when going over 80mph, in the summer.
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      02-19-2013, 11:15 PM   #30
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Those pulls look nuts! Looks like we're one step closer to an Evo/STI killer!

Great job guys, great pics too.
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      02-19-2013, 11:18 PM   #31
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Shiv

Please tell me you have seen this thread with 45K views:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444973

I think this would be very beneficial especially now with the single turbo, to implement this in the procede instead of us having to pull out the fuse!!!!

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      02-19-2013, 11:20 PM   #32
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Man these things are the German 2Js LOL
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      02-19-2013, 11:21 PM   #33
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How much would this set up cost?
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      02-19-2013, 11:31 PM   #34
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Wow! That car moves! Great job and Congratz on the xi single turbo release.
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      02-19-2013, 11:41 PM   #35
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I knew I made the right decision selling the Cobb and keeping the procede last week
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      02-19-2013, 11:46 PM   #36
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Congrats SpeedSkater,

See you around RWC. There are now 2 ST 335is terrorizing the street.
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      02-20-2013, 12:28 AM   #37
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Tony@VargasTurbo writes:
Quote:
Not bashing Shiv in anyway as that's not my thing and I think his hardware is super solid, just noting it seems rather backwards to not get the tuning bugs out of a 2WD platform. Then your next big announcement is, hey guys we took the same kit we were having issues tuning and now it fits a an AWD version... Shiv, can you address any of the tuning issues you guys were having and if you have addressed these on the AWD kit?
Hi Tony,
I would like to know what "tuning bugs" you are referring to. You mentioned that there are some boost control issues. This isn't the case as evident by the dozens of logs I and others have posted. It's not very difficult to control a pressure actuated single wastegated system so by no means am I tooting any horns here. The factory/upgraded twins which rely on vacuum tanks and reverse actuation pose far more of a tuning challenge as you will probably learn when you start on the tuning end of things. But as it stands, I'd argue that the Procede boost control in ST turbo applications works better (less error) than any other combination I can think of. Not having to control boost with unreasonable amounts of exhaust back-pressure (and/or loose factory waste gates) sees to this.

The other "tuning bug" you often refer to is the high RPM misfire that was reported on tmo's car at the last Shiftsector event. This was determined to be due to issues with using a single mass flywheel on a high output car. You will run into this as well unless you go with a SMFW or disable misfire detection. tmo's misfire issue was resolved as expected. As well as others who ran the factory DMFW and replaced it with a SMFW. Again, I don't consider this a tuning issue but rather a transmission hardware issue that the community, after so many years, has learned and is now benefiting from. Including the tuner (dzenno) who will be tuning your Stg 3 turbos. I believe this revelation came as a surprise to him considering all the issues he has had with his ongoing (and underlying) misfire problem. The problem could have been solved by just running a SMFW that is up to the task in high output applications. That, in my book, is far better than any software patch that just hides the problem.

The other problem that you referred to is 6AT shifting issues. Primarily the issue when shifting from 4th to 5th at WOT. At high power levels, this results in a back-and-forth shift event (4th->5th->4th gear) as documented by just about everyone running a high power 6AT application. This includes RB turbos (and presumably your stg2/stg3) turbos when you get them running with an appropriately strong tune. Again, these aren't tuning issues. But rather transmission hardware issues. Fortunately, the only happen at 125+mph (4th to 5th) and not during usual enthusiastic driving. But given cn555's latest findings with the Alpina TCU code and Sihk335's upcoming testing of a fully built transmission, this issue (which, once again, effects everyone running high powered twin turbo and single turbo applications, should be resolved soon.

Tony@VargasTurbo also writes:
Quote:
Lets get one thing straight up front if it isn't already. I have no issues with anything vishu has put out. Shiv is good business man and made a great product and I respect him 100% for getting his kit built as early as he did. I am just curious if any tuning changes are being made to get the kit to the performance level I know it is capable of. That was my question, if that wasn't clear, it is now. I mean we were going to tune our kit with a procede due to the Cobb boost limit and if they cant get the code done in time we will still prob go that route. Sikh335 I wasn't bashing you, so don't think I was. We are all in this together.
Everything is completely clear and I hope you don't mind me addressing your post here on this forum. I just want to point, in advance, that you will unlikely be able to run your Stg3 turbos with the standard Procede twin turbo (or single turbo) firmware successfully. You definitely would require custom firmware to control boost as well as it can be controlled. Perhaps your tuning issues you mentioned are based upon what you've seen while running your Stg3 car. If so, I'm not surprised as there is no publicly available firmware capable of doing what you need it to do with your Stg3 hardware. It's all pretty simple stuff to adapt too but that would take some collaboration. And I'm not sure how amenable you are to that given your comments on the other forum.

At the end of the day, we are all here to push the state of the art and make customers happy. Sometimes that involves unexpected collaborations which makes things interesting.

All the best,
Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 02-20-2013 at 01:24 AM.
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      02-20-2013, 01:32 AM   #38
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Good job, Shiv!
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      02-20-2013, 01:35 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Tony@VargasTurbo writes:


Hi Tony,
I would like to know what "tuning bugs" you are referring to. You mentioned that there are some boost control issues. This isn't the case as evident by the dozens of logs I and others have posted. It's not very difficult to control a pressure actuated single wastegated system so by no means am I tooting any horns here. The factory/upgraded twins which rely on vacuum tanks and reverse actuation pose far more of a tuning challenge as you will probably learn when you start on the tuning end of things. But as it stands, I'd argue that the Procede boost control in ST turbo applications works better (less error) than any other combination I can think of. Not having to control boost with unreasonable amounts of exhaust back-pressure (and/or loose factory waste gates) sees to this.

The other "tuning bug" you often refer to is the high RPM misfire that was reported on tmo's car at the last Shiftsector event. This was determined to be due to issues with using a single mass flywheel on a high output car. You will run into this as well unless you go with a SMFW or disable misfire detection. tmo's misfire issue was resolved as expected. As well as others who ran the factory DMFW and replaced it with a SMFW. Again, I don't consider this a tuning issue but rather a transmission hardware issue that the community, after so many years, has learned and is now benefiting from. Including the tuner (dzenno) who will be tuning your Stg 3 turbos. I believe this revelation came as a surprise to him considering all the issues he has had with his ongoing (and underlying) misfire problem. The problem could have been solved by just running a SMFW that is up to the task in high output applications. That, in my book, is far better than any software patch that just hides the problem.

The other problem that you referred to is 6AT shifting issues. Primarily the issue when shifting from 4th to 5th at WOT. At high power levels, this results in a back-and-forth shift event (4th->5th->4th gear) as documented by just about everyone running a high power 6AT application. This includes RB turbos (and presumably your stg2/stg3) turbos when you get them running with an appropriately strong tune. Again, these aren't tuning issues. But rather transmission hardware issues. Fortunately, the only happen at 125+mph (4th to 5th) and not during usual enthusiastic driving. But given cn555's latest findings with the Alpina TCU code and Sihk335's upcoming testing of a fully built transmission, this issue (which, once again, effects everyone running high powered twin turbo and single turbo applications, should be resolved soon.

Tony@VargasTurbo also writes:


Everything is completely clear and I hope you don't mind me addressing your post here on this forum. I just want to point, in advance, that you will unlikely be able to run your Stg3 turbos with the standard Procede twin turbo (or single turbo) firmware successfully. You definitely would require custom firmware to control boost as well as it can be controlled. Perhaps your tuning issues you mentioned are based upon what you've seen while running your Stg3 car. If so, I'm not surprised as there is no publicly available firmware capable of doing what you need it to do with your Stg3 hardware. It's all pretty simple stuff to adapt too but that would take some collaboration. And I'm not sure how amenable you are to that given your comments on the other forum.

At the end of the day, we are all here to push the state of the art and make customers happy. Sometimes that involves unexpected collaborations which makes things interesting.

All the best,
Shiv
"And I'm not sure how amenable you are to that given your comments on the other forum."

Honestly I am not sure what you are referring to. I have stated many times over how well I thought your kit was made and was surprised we were not seeing the performance I knew it was capable of save a few dyno sheets here and there. These are the tuning issues I am referring to, why your single kit has not performed on the level it should be performing, its obviously not a hardware issue. I just assumed if you ran a 10 in your car a year ago, why are others not able to repeat that. It honestly was just a friendly question of, if there is a tuning issue holding the other cars with the kit installed back, what is it. No accusations.

As far as our stage 3 car, we have had zero issues with tuning or boost control the way the kit is set up. Actually the car has yet to set a check engine light after the initial cylinder one misfire due to a bad connection. This is with the DME controlling the Garrett turbos as they were stock, as well as seeing all 4 O2's. Bolted everything on, hit the start button with a stock tune and the DME was happy as a clam with both vacuum actuated wastegates in place controlling the internal gates on the GTX's. As I stated before we were going to run a procede stacked on top of a Cobb as the cobb has a boost limit of 22.5 psi right now. But Cobb looks like they will be stepping up to the plate and working to remove the boost limit that is in place. If this does not happen in a decent amount of time then we will have to go with the original plan, and would of course love to work with you on firmware for the procede if it is needed. Unlike others who are just looking for a war with the camps, we are not. I think you took my other comments outside of their meaning. If there are no tuning issues why is there such limited performance data from over 10+ kits running on cars. Its an honest question with no angle or ill will attached. Based on what happens with the COBB boost limit I will be in contact to see what we can do. Glad to see you back.
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      02-20-2013, 01:50 AM   #40
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Congrats SpeedSkater,

See you around RWC. There are now 2 ST 335is terrorizing the street.
Looks like I'll have to pick up Ryan's kit to keep up with you guys!
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      02-20-2013, 01:56 AM   #41
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From the pics, the car came to you bone stock and you guys put all the mods on at once?
If so, I can only imagine how much of a difference the owner felt on the first drive lol
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      02-20-2013, 02:02 AM   #42
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Looks like I'll have to pick up Ryan's kit to keep up with you guys!
haha, that would be mahhvelous!
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      02-20-2013, 02:04 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
"And I'm not sure how amenable you are to that given your comments on the other forum."

Honestly I am not sure what you are referring to. I have stated many times over how well I thought your kit was made and was surprised we were not seeing the performance I knew it was capable of save a few dyno sheets here and there. These are the tuning issues I am referring to, why your single kit has not performed on the level it should be performing, its obviously not a hardware issue. I just assumed if you ran a 10 in your car a year ago, why are others not able to repeat that. It honestly was just a friendly question of, if there is a tuning issue holding the other cars with the kit installed back, what is it. No accusations.

As far as our stage 3 car, we have had zero issues with tuning or boost control the way the kit is set up. Actually the car has yet to set a check engine light after the initial cylinder one misfire due to a bad connection. This is with the DME controlling the Garrett turbos as they were stock, as well as seeing all 4 O2's. Bolted everything on, hit the start button with a stock tune and the DME was happy as a clam with both vacuum actuated wastegates in place controlling the internal gates on the GTX's. As I stated before we were going to run a procede stacked on top of a Cobb as the cobb has a boost limit of 22.5 psi right now. But Cobb looks like they will be stepping up to the plate and working to remove the boost limit that is in place. If this does not happen in a decent amount of time then we will have to go with the original plan, and would of course love to work with you on firmware for the procede if it is needed. Unlike others who are just looking for a war with the camps, we are not. I think you took my other comments outside of their meaning. If there are no tuning issues why is there such limited performance data from over 10+ kits running on cars. Its an honest question with no angle or ill will attached. Based on what happens with the COBB boost limit I will be in contact to see what we can do. Glad to see you back.
So now you are stating that there are tuning issues because customers have not take the time to run their car at the dragstrip or to run up to 130mph on a backroad with a vbox?

Perhaps you should have said that first so that our single turbo customers can provide input as to why they aren't buying axles, slicks, short final drives just to satisfy someone else's curiously. Instead, perhaps they are perfectly happy driving their investments as they see fit and don't have anything to prove to you, me or anyone else? If you want a ride in a customer ST car (6at or 6mt) contact me and we can easily make that happen give you locality.

Let's not forget that Creaminz did awfully well in this Euro Tuner mag competition (road course and holding the dyno record). FBIS has posted worthwhile videos and dyno results himself. CaptainInsano has probably put more track (roadracing) miles on his ST car than 99% of users on this forum with their stock turbo car. And he does quite well. If there were tuning issues, they would have been reported by customers instead of assumed by an uninvolved vendor. I've posted plenty of results myself and my 92k miles car isn't exactly a ringer. It just has been outfitted accordingly to run world record breaking 1/4 and 60-130 times. I did that for business reasons. If this wasn't our job, we wouldn't have done any of this. I'd be perfectly happy driving my car has it should be driven:


And maybe sometimes some customer cars:


Here is creaminz on the dyno at EAD (independent testing). Later, during the competition, he ended up making nearly 600whp on his 6AT ST car.


If you look through the forum, you'll find plenty of video posted by others. If you want to complain that not every single turbo customer has posted independent dyno results and drag strip times, you can bring that point to our customers and let them respond to you.

BUT if you want to claim that customers aren't performing to your expectations because of some tuning issue that you suspect, you are arguing something very different. And you are, will all due respect, uninformed. And finally, have you noticed that I have never made any comments of your Stg1, Stg2 turbo issues/delays/problems? This is because it's not my place to do so as it does't pertain to our products, our business or our customers. I encourage you to do the same.

And I'm 100% serious with my invitation for you to by the shop to ride in a customer ST car. If you can determine any unresolved tuning issues with your test ride, you have full carte blanche to post it publicly. Sound fair? Just as long as you let me videotape it

Regards
Shiv

PS:


Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 02-20-2013 at 02:20 AM.
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      02-20-2013, 02:50 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Tony@VargasTurbo writes:


Hi Tony,
I would like to know what "tuning bugs" you are referring to. You mentioned that there are some boost control issues. This isn't the case as evident by the dozens of logs I and others have posted. It's not very difficult to control a pressure actuated single wastegated system so by no means am I tooting any horns here. The factory/upgraded twins which rely on vacuum tanks and reverse actuation pose far more of a tuning challenge as you will probably learn when you start on the tuning end of things. But as it stands, I'd argue that the Procede boost control in ST turbo applications works better (less error) than any other combination I can think of. Not having to control boost with unreasonable amounts of exhaust back-pressure (and/or loose factory waste gates) sees to this.

The other "tuning bug" you often refer to is the high RPM misfire that was reported on tmo's car at the last Shiftsector event. This was determined to be due to issues with using a single mass flywheel on a high output car. You will run into this as well unless you go with a SMFW or disable misfire detection. tmo's misfire issue was resolved as expected. As well as others who ran the factory DMFW and replaced it with a SMFW. Again, I don't consider this a tuning issue but rather a transmission hardware issue that the community, after so many years, has learned and is now benefiting from. Including the tuner (dzenno) who will be tuning your Stg 3 turbos. I believe this revelation came as a surprise to him considering all the issues he has had with his ongoing (and underlying) misfire problem. The problem could have been solved by just running a SMFW that is up to the task in high output applications. That, in my book, is far better than any software patch that just hides the problem.

The other problem that you referred to is 6AT shifting issues. Primarily the issue when shifting from 4th to 5th at WOT. At high power levels, this results in a back-and-forth shift event (4th->5th->4th gear) as documented by just about everyone running a high power 6AT application. This includes RB turbos (and presumably your stg2/stg3) turbos when you get them running with an appropriately strong tune. Again, these aren't tuning issues. But rather transmission hardware issues. Fortunately, the only happen at 125+mph (4th to 5th) and not during usual enthusiastic driving. But given cn555's latest findings with the Alpina TCU code and Sihk335's upcoming testing of a fully built transmission, this issue (which, once again, effects everyone running high powered twin turbo and single turbo applications, should be resolved soon.

Tony@VargasTurbo also writes:


Everything is completely clear and I hope you don't mind me addressing your post here on this forum. I just want to point, in advance, that you will unlikely be able to run your Stg3 turbos with the standard Procede twin turbo (or single turbo) firmware successfully. You definitely would require custom firmware to control boost as well as it can be controlled. Perhaps your tuning issues you mentioned are based upon what you've seen while running your Stg3 car. If so, I'm not surprised as there is no publicly available firmware capable of doing what you need it to do with your Stg3 hardware. It's all pretty simple stuff to adapt too but that would take some collaboration. And I'm not sure how amenable you are to that given your comments on the other forum.

At the end of the day, we are all here to push the state of the art and make customers happy. Sometimes that involves unexpected collaborations which makes things interesting.

All the best,
Shiv
"And I'm not sure how amenable you are to that given your comments on the other forum."

Honestly I am not sure what you are referring to. I have stated many times over how well I thought your kit was made and was surprised we were not seeing the performance I knew it was capable of save a few dyno sheets here and there. These are the tuning issues I am referring to, why your single kit has not performed on the level it should be performing, its obviously not a hardware issue. I just assumed if you ran a 10 in your car a year ago, why are others not able to repeat that. It honestly was just a friendly question of, if there is a tuning issue holding the other cars with the kit installed back, what is it. No accusations.

As far as our stage 3 car, we have had zero issues with tuning or boost control the way the kit is set up. Actually the car has yet to set a check engine light after the initial cylinder one misfire due to a bad connection. This is with the DME controlling the Garrett turbos as they were stock, as well as seeing all 4 O2's. Bolted everything on, hit the start button with a stock tune and the DME was happy as a clam with both vacuum actuated wastegates in place controlling the internal gates on the GTX's. As I stated before we were going to run a procede stacked on top of a Cobb as the cobb has a boost limit of 22.5 psi right now. But Cobb looks like they will be stepping up to the plate and working to remove the boost limit that is in place. If this does not happen in a decent amount of time then we will have to go with the original plan, and would of course love to work with you on firmware for the procede if it is needed. Unlike others who are just looking for a war with the camps, we are not. I think you took my other comments outside of their meaning. If there are no tuning issues why is there such limited performance data from over 10+ kits running on cars. Its an honest question with no angle or ill will attached. Based on what happens with the COBB boost limit I will be in contact to see what we can do. Glad to see you back.
Don't worry Tony I will give you ride in my car when my Trans is back in the coming weeks. That's the only thing holding my car and ST kit from posting all over this forum.
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