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      02-23-2013, 08:56 AM   #23
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Honestly I think having a real LSD is good enough reason to get any newer M car, period.
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      02-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #24
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what is the LSD??
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      02-23-2013, 10:15 AM   #25
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LSD stands for limited slip differential. Basically a limited slip differential will split the power evenly between the rear wheels and will continuously give more power to the wheel that grips versus the one that is slipping. The alternative is an "open differential" which will basically give the power to the wheel that's slipping the most..

New cars have "electric" open diffs that are kind of like LSD's but they just use the brakes to control wheel slippage, rather than doing it inside the diff which is much preferred.

For 90% of the population they won't know the difference.
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      02-23-2013, 10:18 AM   #26
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Limited slip differential (assuming you weren't being cynical). AFAIK, no non-m BMW comes with a LSD (which are standard in sports cars. They all come with an open diff (meaning equal power distribution to both/all wheels) and attempt to compensate with DSC.

Personally, I was choosing between (seriously considering) 2008-2010 m6, 2009-2011 m3, and 2009-2011 335d. I chose the 2011 diesel (because I drive 40k+/yr) and I couldn't be happier with it. If choosing between the three as my DD, I would do it again. You just have to test drive and know what is right for you. Obviously it came down to the fact that a balance of performance and efficiency was more important to me that pure performance. I also enjoy modding, and am looking forward to doing a m3 suspension component conversion & LSD add to my diesel if I decide to keep it for the long haul.
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      02-23-2013, 10:30 AM   #27
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Thank you very much guys.
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      02-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #28
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Let me ask you guys another then question, do I have it on my x6 5.0i or it just M feature?
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      02-23-2013, 11:59 AM   #29
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I may be a little off, but i believe your x6 is going to be slightly different because it offers torque-vectoring AWD which overdrives the wheel with additional traction. It is basically an in between step. Which it does not use the brakes to regulate traction as in the DSC, it is also not a full-locking differential as you would see in a car with more track or off-road focus. Overall, though, a very good, advanced system. I'd keep snow tires handy, though ;-)
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      02-23-2013, 12:03 PM   #30
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Here you go; a quick search with regards to your x6 found this on Wikipedia...
Quote:
Dynamic Performance Control
The X6 marks BMW's first use of its new Dynamic Performance Control system, which works in unison with xDrive all-wheel drive, both being standard on the X6. DPC is a drivetrain and chassis control system that works to regulate traction and especially correct over- and understeer by actively spreading out drive forces across the rear axle. Torque is distributed not only between the front and rear wheels (xDrive) but also from side to side at the rear, for improved agility and added stability (through the DPC rear axle).[19] This lateral distribution of torque is commonly known as torque vectoring.
The DPC differential features clutch packs on both output sides that are actuated by an electric motor. The clutch pack activates a planetary gearset which causes one wheel to be overdriven. A conventional control system will use the brakes to reduce the speed of the faster moving wheel (which is the one with less traction)and reduce engine power. This leads to increased brake wear and slower than optimal progress. The DPC system speeds up the slower moving wheel (the one with the most traction) in order to maintain stability when needed. For example; while turning, the outer wheel is overdriven to provide greater acceleration using the traction advantage through the dynamic loading of the outboard wheel in cornering. In an oversteer situation, the inner wheel is overdriven to regain traction balance.
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      02-23-2013, 12:47 PM   #31
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I had a 335i and now have an E92 M3.

335i was nice and had some punch but the power delivery was very boring. Big punch off the line which was great for DD but then fell flat on its face at higher RPM. The M3 pulls until redline at 8400, making very nice noises getting there.

I was planning to keep the 335i for a long time and mod it, but I had a lot of issues with fuel pumps, injectors, etc, and sold it as soon as the warranty was up.

The M3 is in a different league, it's an entire package very well balanced for performance. The 335 was a mild car tweaked to provide above average sporty feeling.

Sure some will say that you can tune the hell out of the 335i to get close to the m3 in terms of performance, but its still going to be a 335i and you will spend a lot of cash in the process and maybe even lose your warranty. It's also going to be a challenge to keep a balanced setup.

If I had to do it again I would go straight to M3 without a doubt.
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      02-23-2013, 01:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycd View Post
I had a 335i and now have an E92 M3.

335i was nice and had some punch but the power delivery was very boring. Big punch off the line which was great for DD but then fell flat on its face at higher RPM. The M3 pulls until redline at 8400, making very nice noises getting there.

I was planning to keep the 335i for a long time and mod it, but I had a lot of issues with fuel pumps, injectors, etc, and sold it as soon as the warranty was up.

The M3 is in a different league, it's an entire package very well balanced for performance. The 335 was a mild car tweaked to provide above average sporty feeling.

Sure some will say that you can tune the hell out of the 335i to get close to the m3 in terms of performance, but its still going to be a 335i and you will spend a lot of cash in the process and maybe even lose your warranty. It's also going to be a challenge to keep a balanced setup.

If I had to do it again I would go straight to M3 without a doubt.
Off the record, yes the m3 is a better car hands down.

but there are advantages of having a 335i over an M3. you may ask what? Well for one, better MPG LOL ok who cares about that.

extra maintenance. M cars do have warranty but some maintenance for the car is just plain expensive. If you do maintenance yourself then this doesnt matter.

i feel like getting a ding in a 335i will be less heart breaking then getting a ding in a m3. Plus 335i look like regular 3 series, meaning its goes under the radar.

of course 335i are fast with a tune/meth/e85. in a straight line M3 owners know how fast they can be. For some, straight line performance means the most. Not everyone is a track driver. the 335i offers good brakes, decent handling, and a torquey motor. it fills what every car enthusiast should want at a much lower cost. it doesnt have a LSD but i have no problem getting around. i dont drift(lol) or go to track days to really put the LSD to good use.

for being close to half the price of an M3, it gives the m3 a good run for the money. If you have the funds, M3 is obviously a better choice, but if you have a budget the 335i will give you a decent amount of excitement and sounds for any enthusiast to enjoy. m cars overrated? not what so ever.

i cant afford an m3 so i bought a 335i. if i had the money of course the m3 would be my choice.
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      02-24-2013, 02:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali FlyBoyZ View Post
I'm in a bit of a war with myself right now. I'm not sure if I am putting too much emphasis on the ///M or if it is really worth it to own one. In looking for my next car, I am wondering if I should go with a 08-2010 ///M3, 06-08 ///M6, the 2011 550i, 2011 640i, or to just get another 335i and fully mod it again (never got a chance to try the single turbo setup).

I decided to post this here instead of the ///M forum because you guys seem a bit more fair and not so biased towards one car over another. I am really interested in hearing your opinion(s). Thanks =)
No absolutely not overrated. I test drove a cpo e92, and that test drive is still in my mind of how wonderfull and balanced the car was. The high revving v8 is just plain amazing. I walked away for the wrong reasons. Bad MPG for a daily and I regret it almost every day. I went with a new F30 335i, while its a wonderful car and I love it and enjoy it every day it does not fill that void! That only the ///M3 can fill.

Get the M3 if you can afford it I think its the best bang for the buck in the M lineup. Id pick up a 1M for my next car but they arent coming down in price and I dont see it happening.

///M is ///M no substitute. Good luck in your searches.
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      02-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #34
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A few comments.

I wouldn't underestimate the cost to bring up a non-M up to M specs. Suspension main components, all the bushings, rear diff. It adds up quick. To bring up an E82 or E92 up to E46 M specs is something like $3k or more just in control arms and bushings. For a 6MT E82, a Quaife LSD will set you back at least $2500 net. Getting room for tire on a non-M could be challenging as well. $2-3k for the EA front fenders plus paint, probably another $1-2k.

You can certainly make a more powerful car for less money with a N54/N55 engine that a naturally aspirated M3 (I6 or V8). A tune and downpipes on an N54/N55 will put you close to a V8 M3 power level, but with a lot more torque. Full bolt ons (intercooler, full exhaust, intake) and you're talking more power. It will be difficult (read: expensive) to tune up a naturally aspirated car. Header, exhaust, intake, and tune will yield FAR less gains.

As others have said, the M package is a nice overall balanced package of handling and power. If you don't care as much about modding, it's not a bad idea.

I had looked at the E46 M3 when I was in the process of looking at the E82 135i. I decided I liked the tuning potential of the N54 engine. The E46 M with more miles would have been slightly cheaper than my 1 year old 135i. The E92 M3 was still too expensive at the time, and I preferred a smaller, lighter car for autocross. Ultimately the E46 would have been the best autocross car, but I like to tinker, so the 135i was my decision.
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      02-24-2013, 04:32 PM   #35
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this video will answer all your questions about 335 vs m3.

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      02-25-2013, 03:24 AM   #36
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And one more thing from a P salesman that I test drove the Panamera GTS with.....

He said that none of the BMW Ms can come close to the handling of any of the Porsche sport cars. And then he added, "Except the M3"

So there you go. Even the other camp acknowledges the prowess of the beloved M3

PS. No, he didn't know I drive an M3
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      02-25-2013, 08:29 AM   #37
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M cars are great... wonderful engineering and design to them... however the drivers of M cars, not all but a lot in my experience seem to think they are untouchable in racing and driving etc... However they are wrong... just because they have an M3 doesn't make them a race car driver. There are a number of cars for less money that would spank the M3 around the track. I believe they are overpriced for what you get. Way overpriced.
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      02-25-2013, 08:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali FlyBoyZ View Post
I'm in a bit of a war with myself right now. I'm not sure if I am putting too much emphasis on the ///M or if it is really worth it to own one. In looking for my next car, I am wondering if I should go with a 08-2010 ///M3, 06-08 ///M6, the 2011 550i, 2011 640i, or to just get another 335i and fully mod it again (never got a chance to try the single turbo setup).

I decided to post this here instead of the ///M forum because you guys seem a bit more fair and not so biased towards one car over another. I am really interested in hearing your opinion(s). Thanks =)
stop using /// in front of M first of all

second of all, the answer is simple.

go drive these cars, and then you will know if they are for you or not.

i personally have owned 3 M cars, and 2 modern non M cars. the difference in handling and feel is big enough for me to have gotten back into my personal dream car which i own today.

the M cars are more aggressive feeling and sharp edged, and only by driving them will you determine whether this is something that appeals to you or not.

personally, i liked the grunt and low end and midrange power of the N54, and the handling and feel of the e9x m3. the 1M combines all those things, and handles and brakes better than an m3 because it is 300 lbs lighter.

i will say this, one major advantage of the m3 if you go automatic is the DCT transmission. it is fantastic, and really is a perfect match for that car. im a 6mt guy, so it doesnt interest me, but it does really improve the m3 experience.

good luck
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      02-25-2013, 09:41 AM   #39
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I think most M cars are rated very fairly indeed, but we all know we pay too much for the luxury and brand value, especially with the higher series and M cars. But its not like the competition is any better. Porsche used to be the most profitable car company in the world so go figure... That is why companies such as Nissan are able to make cars that are faster for less money.

The 1M is probably one of the most fun cars money can buy. The M3 is a sensation to drive and look at. You pay a premium for the M3 over the 1M just like you pay a premium for the M6 over the M5. From a technical point of view it is hard to justify the price of any M but the 1M, but we could say the same about Gucci and LV bags. People still buy and love them.

So as many people already said, its all about who you are. If you get a BMW you already pay something extra just for the brand. And if you get an M car, or a coupe or convertible over a sedan or touring, well, then you pay extra for that as well. Its because people are willing to do that, they are coming up with new brands such as this M performance thing (ie M135i) and the new 2 and 4-series designations.
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      02-26-2013, 10:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask View Post
In that case I would get the M3. It may be your last chance to get a great NA engine from BMW
Good perspective right there, enjoy the gas guzzlers while we can get our heavy foots on their peddles!!

I loved the power and fuel economy out of the f30 N20 but the smooth power and sound out of the inline 6 in my e39 has is enjoyable in a totally different way.
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      02-27-2013, 01:35 AM   #41
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You should boil it down to what you are looking for, it should become obvious then.
You should boil it down to what you are looking for, it should become obvious then
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      02-27-2013, 02:53 PM   #42
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I got the 335i sport package red/black interior (each dealership got 1) last march. Love it, but knew I shouldve waited for the M3 to come out. Recommend getting the M3- its the best of the 3 series
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      02-27-2013, 04:46 PM   #43
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this video will answer all your questions about 335 vs m3.
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      03-11-2013, 07:43 AM   #44
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NICE!
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