E90Post
 


GetBMWParts
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > What's going to happen to GM??? Why did you abandon them?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-23-2005, 05:40 PM   #1
StewtheBassman
Major General
 
Drives: 04 X5 3.0, 07 530xiT
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson, Quebec

Posts: 6,386
iTrader: (1)

What's going to happen to GM??? Why did you abandon them?

Boy, those new SUVs better be awesome. It seems strange that GM will soon be surpassed by Toyota. It also seems strange that GMs very existence is now hinging on whether Delphi union members strike or not. It's a very tense situation.

I still have my '98 Jimmy 4x4 SLT. It has about 100,000 miles, on it and it runs great.

I abandoned my Saab because of repeatedly poor service. BMW serves me like a king.

Honestly, I would have stayed with GM had the service been better. I never even thought about BMW before that. Now I have two.
__________________

StewtheBassman is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-23-2005, 06:08 PM   #2
Bimmerista
Major General
 
Bimmerista's Avatar
 
Drives: superstock
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Posts: 5,698
iTrader: (0)

Interesting, if even otherwise favorably pre-disposed clients are turned away from GM, they have bigger problems than the UAW and the pension overhang.

When we first came to Canada, my parents loved everything North American. We owned 4-5 GM cars, all of them Oldsmobiles, including the Delta 98s and 88s, and several Cutlass Sierras.

Frankly, the cars were crap. They were not even confortable for long distance cruising because (A) the seats were too soft - no support and (B) the wallowing suspension got on even my mother's nerves after a while. Plus, despite their honking 8 and large displacement 6es, their three speed tranny made us shiver at the sight of yet another hill to get over. AND the dealer service was not good - you had to hagle over everything (whether covered by warranty or not etc.)... Of course this was in the eighties and early nineties.

By then we as a familly unit "turned" on GM and the US car Cos in general. Several Mazdas followed and each one put a smile on our faces.

Now I have come back to German cars (which we owned when we lived in Europe) and it would take a heck of a lot before I would seriously consider American car manufacturers again. Have to say that what Cadillac is doing is definately on the right track.

Well, that's my point of view. I am not surprised at where GM is from a product perspective. From an economic perspective, GM put a shotgun to its head and the union's hand on the trigger when Wagoner's predecessor thought it was a good idea to sign collective agreements that guaranteed permanent employment to the UAW. Folks, that system did not work for the Soviets and it ain't going to work for GM. There, now I sound like the Autoextremist.
Bimmerista is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-23-2005, 06:08 PM   #3
ase2dais
//Mdicted
 
ase2dais's Avatar
 
Drives: a Cop Magnet
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 495 Ring

Posts: 9,874
iTrader: (17)

Garage List
It is a sad day in American if ever GM really goes, but their problems are self-inflicted, sad to say.

I remember the days of the Muscle-Cars, when it was pure joy to own American cars like Mustangs, Corvettes, Firebirds, Camaros, Trans Am, Challengers, 'Cudas and others. Such pride to have those cars, and see them cruise America's Main Streets on Summer wkends nights. As much as I know they are still around, I feel no excitement as before, seems like these cars are just repackaged.

I hope that the current restructuring will be just on time to turn the company around in improving their products and services.

Why? you asked.
I didnt abandon GM, GM abandon ME!

GOD BLESS America!

ok! now back to yu bimmer boys !

Last edited by ase2dais; 11-23-2005 at 06:37 PM.
ase2dais is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-23-2005, 06:14 PM   #4
StewtheBassman
Major General
 
Drives: 04 X5 3.0, 07 530xiT
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson, Quebec

Posts: 6,386
iTrader: (1)

My Mom had a Delta 88 in the early 80s...that car was a boat. I drove it from New Hampshire to Milwaukee in 27 hours when they moved, blaring David Bowie's "let's dance" album the whole way. It was so comfortable. Our recent rental of a Dodge Charger reminded me of it.

Admittedly, the 1994 (post GM) Saab I had was problematic, but for the most part a good car. I sold it after 6 years. The 2000 9-3 went 139,000kms before ANY problems. It was just the service that blew me away.

There are 130k UAW emplyees at GM. If the 30k Delphi employees strike, they'll bring all those other "brothers" down too.

You all know- I would buy a Solstice (or two) if I could, AND a Corvette. Still think GM makes some good cars.
__________________


Last edited by StewtheBassman; 11-23-2005 at 06:41 PM.
StewtheBassman is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-23-2005, 06:20 PM   #5
ward
Major General
 
Drives: F
Join Date: May 2005
Location: T

Posts: 6,162
iTrader: (0)

my dad buys GM still, they've got him roped in with that stupid GM card.

They break down on him, die on the road, have tranny's die at 40,000 miles

I have no idea why he stiill buys them
ward is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-23-2005, 06:49 PM   #6
Bimmerista
Major General
 
Bimmerista's Avatar
 
Drives: superstock
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Posts: 5,698
iTrader: (0)

[
You all know- I would buy a Solstice (or two) if I could, AND a Corvette. Still think GM makes some good cars.[/quote]

Interesting,

I would rather buy the Miata (MX5) and the Porsche rather than the Vette
Bimmerista is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-23-2005, 06:54 PM   #7
ward
Major General
 
Drives: F
Join Date: May 2005
Location: T

Posts: 6,162
iTrader: (0)

they use the same tranny in the solstice as they use in the colorado pickup

GM does everything wrong
ward is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-23-2005, 11:16 PM   #8
StewtheBassman
Major General
 
Drives: 04 X5 3.0, 07 530xiT
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson, Quebec

Posts: 6,386
iTrader: (1)

I'd buy the Solstice for its looks, and the 'Vette for its performance.

Yah, the MX5 probably performs a bit better, and the Porsche MIGHT get more looks from hot chicks...
__________________

StewtheBassman is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 12:18 AM   #9
shimshimhada
Brigadier General
 
shimshimhada's Avatar
 
Drives: Portal
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portal

Posts: 4,839
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StewtheBassman
I'd buy the Solstice for its looks, and the 'Vette for its performance.

Yah, the MX5 probably performs a bit better, and the Porsche WILL get more looks from hot chicks...
Fixed.
shimshimhada is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 01:07 AM   #10
Accounting4Speed
Kind of a Big Deal
 
Accounting4Speed's Avatar
 
Drives: 330i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 202
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Accounting4Speed
It's the way of the world my friends. It has become too expensive to produce cheap cars in America. The auto manufacturers should have seen this coming and either outsourced or divested tthemselves into other businesses, like GE and IBM. Neither company really does what they were founded to do, but yet they are mighty comglomerates that time and time again set the benchmark. GM should have packed it up years ago when Japanese cars started becoming popular because they saw the profits drop out of the market, yet they foolishly thought they could recover. And people wonder why so many companies are getting out of the PC business, because there are no profits and it's impossible to compete with a giant like Dell.
Accounting4Speed is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 01:46 AM   #11
icedragon
guardian of ice and snow
 
Drives: 128i, 325i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto

Posts: 424
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
06 325xi  [0.00]
GM's fata flaw is its lack of individual brand identity. Instead of separately advertising the unique characteristics of each of its individual companies (like Saab), GM tends to advertise their cars as a "clump" of GM vehicles. Check out their website. They don't even have individual websites for each car company, they just group them all on the GM website. That and the fact that their reliability is pathetic. I can't wait to see GM disappear because, as of now, it's dragging down car industry standards.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by guardianangel3290
rcracer is now a part of the 1addicts axis of evil . . along with TJ [FibreOptix], Arlene, the bitch clip, the amber headlights, and bears!"
icedragon is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 02:29 AM   #12
NaTuReB0Y
Powered By 36DD
 
NaTuReB0Y's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Inland Empire

Posts: 7,381
iTrader: (12)

hahaha....employee discount ploy couldn't save their asses!

Toyota already surpassed GM..........
__________________
2006 E90 330i Jet Black | 20" WORK VS-XX | FK452 | H&R Sport on Koni Yellow | REMUS QUAD
NaTuReB0Y is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 08:32 AM   #13
espo
Captain
 
espo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 M235i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sugar Land TX

Posts: 702
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accounting4Speed
It's the way of the world my friends. It has become too expensive to produce cheap cars in America.
If I'm not mistaken are not most of the Honda's (and some of the Acura's) sold in the US actually built in the US? I know Honda has a hugh plant in Ohio that builds Accords and Civics as well as a number of SUVs. So you can build an affordable dependable car in the US.

GM's (as well as the rest of the big US car companies problems) are a result of decisions made long ago when Imports didn't really exist in this country. The labor agreements and management decisions have left the companies with a large fixed cost structure. For the companies to produce a car with the same consumer price point as an import, they need to spend LESS on the car itself and MORE to pay for the fixed labor expense. Therefore, they tend to have to use cheaper (read less reliable) parts and designs then the imports. In that case, no matter how good the assembly is, the car is still crap.

People then say "Why buy a GM car when I can get this import for the same price and it's reliable!" GM sells less units and then the fixed costs become a greater percentage of any one car, they have to then spend LESS to make the same car. The car is even more unreliable, and then they lose more business.... It's a classic downward spirul in manufacturing business when a new company enters the market (foreign car companies) without the same fixed cost burden.

Unfornutately there is no way GM (or Ford and Chevy) can really survive in this market in their current forms. They will need to do something drastic sometime in the near future. GM is the first, but will not be the last major US car company in deep trouble.

Just my 2 cents...
__________________
E90 330xi Mystic Blue/Black Leather/Aluminum 6sp Manual ZSP/ZPP/ZCW/CA - Retired
F22 M235i Mineral Gray/Red Leather/Aluminum 6sp Manual ZPP/ZTP
espo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 11:47 AM   #14
deutschmann59
Captain
 
Drives: 2006 325i
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: e90post.com

Posts: 735
iTrader: (0)

Ah GM. My dad's 2002 Cadillac Deville had to be towed out of our garage a week ago (with a tow truck) because it wouldn't start. It couldn't even be jumped.

It turns out the rear left passenger window would go down, but as it went down again and again over time, it eventually cut some kind of wire and shorted out the whole car

And never drive a Deville on a winding road when you're used to your bimmer--the results could be catastrophic!
deutschmann59 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 04:30 PM   #15
Mr.Abulia
Driver
 
Mr.Abulia's Avatar
 
Drives: Porsche Carrera
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 212
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Simply put, GM is a dinosaur. I didn't abandon them, I never went near them in the first place! If I wanted a car that handled like a pregnant yak, they'd be high on my list... but, sadly, I do not.

What makes me curious is that they can make some good cars, like the Corvette, and sell them at an amazing price point. So, why do they screw up everything else they do? I believe it is because they are so quick to try and cut corners to produce and design new vehicles as cheaply and quickly as possible that they do not take the time and effort to do proper market research or invest in reliability: making a reliable car is not much harder than making a good one once you pass the design phase! GM has to stop and really THINK about what cars they want to market, and then go with them. Take the time and money to make them great, and THEN bring them to market... even if they cost slightly more than they do now. At the same time, scrap all the cars they only make so they have something in a certain segment. As long as GM tries to be a jack of all trades (segments), they will literally be the master of none.
Mr.Abulia is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 04:33 PM   #16
StewtheBassman
Major General
 
Drives: 04 X5 3.0, 07 530xiT
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson, Quebec

Posts: 6,386
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharp1183
Ah GM. My dad's 2002 Cadillac Deville had to be towed out of our garage a week ago (with a tow truck) because it wouldn't start. It couldn't even be jumped.

It turns out the rear left passenger window would go down, but as it went down again and again over time, it eventually cut some kind of wire and shorted out the whole car

And never drive a Deville on a winding road when you're used to your bimmer--the results could be catastrophic!
I have a client with a 2000 Caddy, tons of electrical problems.
__________________

StewtheBassman is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 05:31 PM   #17
espo
Captain
 
espo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 M235i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sugar Land TX

Posts: 702
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Abulia
I believe it is because they are so quick to try and cut corners to produce and design new vehicles as cheaply and quickly as possible that they do not take the time and effort to do proper market research or invest in reliability: making a reliable car is not much harder than making a good one once you pass the design phase! GM has to stop and really THINK about what cars they want to market, and then go with them. Take the time and money to make them great, and THEN bring them to market... even if they cost slightly more than they do now. At the same time, scrap all the cars they only make so they have something in a certain segment. As long as GM tries to be a jack of all trades (segments), they will literally be the master of none.
That's not only a problem with GM, that's a problem with most american companies. I'm in R&D and try to sell that concept above almost every day to various business and engineering people, but they just wont get it... Everything is about doing it yesterday and cheaper... Then when it doesn't work, go blame the guys in R&D :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
__________________
E90 330xi Mystic Blue/Black Leather/Aluminum 6sp Manual ZSP/ZPP/ZCW/CA - Retired
F22 M235i Mineral Gray/Red Leather/Aluminum 6sp Manual ZPP/ZTP
espo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 06:01 PM   #18
ward
Major General
 
Drives: F
Join Date: May 2005
Location: T

Posts: 6,162
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y
hahaha....employee discount ploy couldn't save their asses!

Toyota already surpassed GM..........

that ploy was just to attempt to prevent layoffs,
they've been making more cars than they could sell for quite some time and stock was piling up at dealerships. They had to give the cars away at minimal profits just to keep the factory's open

then they had to lay off 30,000 anyway
ward is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 08:45 PM   #19
jetmechG550
Private
 
jetmechG550's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 325 Grey/Green
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Indy

Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)

I've never been a fan of anything made by GM after 1970. My Dad's a Cadillac fan and he's had a number of issues with each of the last three. Fortunately his only saving grace is dumping them before the warranty is out. What bugs me with large companies like this though, is they don't seem to have a problem buying and taking delivery of about $200 million in new iron to fly people around. And you gotta love those fabulous unions, look how much they do for ya now.
jetmechG550 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 08:49 PM   #20
NaTuReB0Y
Powered By 36DD
 
NaTuReB0Y's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Inland Empire

Posts: 7,381
iTrader: (12)

They have another ploy in the making......RED TAG SALE!
GM and friend
__________________
2006 E90 330i Jet Black | 20" WORK VS-XX | FK452 | H&R Sport on Koni Yellow | REMUS QUAD
NaTuReB0Y is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-24-2005, 10:51 PM   #21
StewtheBassman
Major General
 
Drives: 04 X5 3.0, 07 530xiT
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson, Quebec

Posts: 6,386
iTrader: (1)

I think there must be alot of creative people at GM who are champing at the bit to get the job done but the "old ways" seem still to permeate their strategies. It really doesn't help that the unions hogtied GM (who let them) and they're bound to these contracts.
__________________

StewtheBassman is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2005, 12:31 AM   #22
Hunter399
Major General
 
Hunter399's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 335i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 7,757
iTrader: (30)

The Vette Z06 is a SICK car....
Hunter399 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST