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      11-25-2005, 05:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espo89
That's not only a problem with GM, that's a problem with most american companies. I'm in R&D and try to sell that concept above almost every day to various business and engineering people, but they just wont get it... Everything is about doing it yesterday and cheaper... Then when it doesn't work, go blame the guys in R&D :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I do hope they pull through, get some people making right decisions in there... I grew up in Buffalo, my dad worked for GM, my sister still does, may be nearing retirement, especially now. I even have the ol' GM credit card myself, had expected my next car would be a GM car. Despite that, when I had the means to get a new car this year, went with the BMW, my first. That's an easy decision here in So. Cal, where they're so common, everyone I know who had one raved about it. I love my car, don't see myself going back. No my family didn't disown me, but they were more that a little suprised... I do hope for my mom's and sister's sake, the company pulls through.
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      11-25-2005, 08:02 PM   #24
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No my family didn't disown me, but they were more that a little suprised...
Ha ha ha ha!

My grandfather's a Chevy salesman! He was a little pissed.
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      11-25-2005, 09:12 PM   #25
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GM sucks. They haven't built a quality car in decades.
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      11-25-2005, 09:46 PM   #26
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A year ago I almost bought a one year old fully loaded Tahoe, glad I didn't...
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      11-26-2005, 10:30 AM   #27
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GM really needs to go under. It will be a great day for america when it does. That piece of crap company produces absolute junk, rebrands and reskins everything to try and refresh their junk, and pretty much banks on american-car nationalism to sell its products. If GM would ever go down, then there may be room for a new car company to emerge that actually puts thoughtful engineering into their products. In the end, this country will reap what we put in, and if we keep having the government bail out and baby these big corporations, then obviously they will continue to be babies... Its like the British car industry, look what happened to them, after all the government subsidies and support, they all went to hell, and are now owned by foreign companies.

Any company that banks its whole bussiness on an SUV boom diserves to go under, way under !
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      11-26-2005, 12:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3
That piece of crap company produces absolute junk, rebrands and reskins everything to try and refresh their junk...
Wasn't the Cadillac Cimarron a Chevy Cavalier with Cadillac logos?


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      11-26-2005, 08:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharp1183
Wasn't the Cadillac Cimarron a Chevy Cavalier with Cadillac logos?



And that's just the tip of the iceberg...
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      11-26-2005, 08:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharp1183
Ha ha ha ha!

My grandfather's a Chevy salesman! He was a little pissed.

I watch Autoline Detroit on SpeedTV Sunday mornings at 9am. They cover all things Detroit. I recently saw an interview with a top GM salesman who finally quit in frustration and started a consulting company. His selling ideas are similar to LedZep's BMW salesperson. Total service and accessibility. He tried to get his ideas to the upper echelons, but was ignored.

And the whole RWD revolution that Chrysler is doing so well with is also being ignored more or less by GM. And the hybrid revolution (like it or not) that Ford is working is being ignored by GM also (correct me if I'm wrong here).
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      11-26-2005, 08:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StewtheBassman
I watch Autoline Detroit on SpeedTV Sunday mornings at 9am. They cover all things Detroit. I recently saw an interview with a top GM salesman who finally quit in frustration and started a consulting company. His selling ideas are similar to LedZep's BMW salesperson. Total service and accessibility. He tried to get his ideas to the upper echelons, but was ignored.

And the whole RWD revolution that Chrysler is doing so well with is also being ignored more or less by GM. And the hybrid revolution (like it or not) that Ford is working is being ignored by GM also (correct me if I'm wrong here).
Agree with the RWD assessment, I just had that same discussion with my friend the other day. As for hybrids, Chevy was the first US company(I think-could be wrong) to use hybrid tech on pickups and SUV. However, it is geared more as a generator for construction workers than as a commuter gas saver.
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      11-30-2005, 04:34 PM   #32
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GM made us abandon them. A couple more years and they might lose their identity... a terrible thing gets worse
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      12-01-2005, 10:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espo89
If I'm not mistaken are not most of the Honda's (and some of the Acura's) sold in the US actually built in the US? I know Honda has a hugh plant in Ohio that builds Accords and Civics as well as a number of SUVs. So you can build an affordable dependable car in the US.

GM's (as well as the rest of the big US car companies problems) are a result of decisions made long ago when Imports didn't really exist in this country. The labor agreements and management decisions have left the companies with a large fixed cost structure. For the companies to produce a car with the same consumer price point as an import, they need to spend LESS on the car itself and MORE to pay for the fixed labor expense. Therefore, they tend to have to use cheaper (read less reliable) parts and designs then the imports. In that case, no matter how good the assembly is, the car is still crap.

People then say "Why buy a GM car when I can get this import for the same price and it's reliable!" GM sells less units and then the fixed costs become a greater percentage of any one car, they have to then spend LESS to make the same car. The car is even more unreliable, and then they lose more business.... It's a classic downward spirul in manufacturing business when a new company enters the market (foreign car companies) without the same fixed cost burden.

Unfornutately there is no way GM (or Ford and Chevy) can really survive in this market in their current forms. They will need to do something drastic sometime in the near future. GM is the first, but will not be the last major US car company in deep trouble.

Just my 2 cents...
I agree with most of your analysis, about fixed cost pricing due to high priced labor contracts. But, let me finish the other half of your analysis, which is that GM has to do something drastic. That other half is that GM does not have the vehicles that command good prices. While GM already lost over 50% of it share in car sales, they still hold major share in big trunks and SUVs. They should be on the defense that high gas prices can easily shrink that sales, and thereby be the last downfall of their domain. They should capitalized on that sales, and funnel some of its profit earnings to reinvent their car or maybe hybird product lines, while they still can. qoute:

They have the ability to do it, for there are pockets of vitality within GM. The Cadillac division redesigned its lines and achieved big sales gains. GM is the market leader in China (indeed, in 2005 its total foreign sales will surpass U.S. sales for the first time).

But, those success could be fatal, and may even dull "the urge for competitive survival," which is "the strongest of all economic incentives." Companies might fail "to recognize advancing technology or altered consumer needs."

Avoiding these traps is GM's challenge. With even talks that GM could go bankrupt, although that isn't inevitable, even the talk measures how poorly GM met the challenge.

unquote.
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      12-01-2005, 04:20 PM   #34
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Three years ago I was drawn into a GM showroom by a newspaper ad; I found out that 4 year, 0% financing actually cost $5,000.

It's too bad that a lot of GM employee [and other] families will be hurt, but GM has only done it to itself.
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      12-01-2005, 05:38 PM   #35
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Well, in addition to making cars that people don't want to buy, another big problem for GM is keeping workers in American factories.

This is all just an assumption, but isn't it true that the biggest problem with GM right now is they aren't able to pay for soaring health care costs for their workers?

Don't quote me on this, but isn't it also true that other car companies build factories in third world countries so they don't have to pay minimum wage and health benefits? Well, if this is true, then I admire GM for trying to keep the jobs in America for as long as possible, but (and if this is true) it just goes to show how screwed up our world is becomming. People can't buy a $30,000 Chevy if they're aren't any jobs.

But then again, the other side of the argument is these are the kinds of jobs that Americans don't want.

Regardless, you guys are right. GM is junk and if the health care for workers isn't their primary problem, it is definitely quality. American cars are the low-balls of the auto world, and now they are nothing more than a joke. I've seen people who bought Chevys all their lives starting to turn to Toyota or Honda. This would have been unheard of in the early 1980s.

GM really has to downsize and put a little more quality into their products. Toyota pushes out HUGE amounts of cars and they are still built VERY well. But I'm afraid it may be too late for GM's name. I have it in my head that GM is garbage, even if they ever become more safe and better built than Toyota/BMW/ect.
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      12-04-2005, 11:06 PM   #36
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GM has dumped a huge amount of money into hydrogen. it will be unfortunate if they dont make it to the hydrogen economy. at their rate now, i wont be surprised if they dont make it another 5-10 years.
 
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      12-06-2005, 04:18 AM   #37
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No one abandoned GM they abandoned us. Kept trying to shove inferior products down consumer's throat with low prices except they didn't take into account of their costs. If caddy line builds bmw and chevy builds toyota they wouldn't be in this situation now. They are turning things around with vettes and solistic and I hope they succeed. Be great to own a good American than an import but for now I won't buy a GM. Unless its a vette
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