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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > 1st Track Day = N54 Engine Failure :(



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      02-25-2013, 11:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Oil starvation blowing his motor on his first track day?
What else could it be? I can't see him blowing the motor from lack of octane or knock @ 14psi, the DME will protect the motor in that situation. Could be oil pump failure? The white smoke could be a turbo letting go but that wouldn't explain the clutch or the lack of compression in a cylinder.

None of the theories I've heard so far really jive with everything he's said...
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      02-25-2013, 11:50 PM   #24
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Theres a reason Dinan does flashes like the Cobb vs the piggyback, ITS THE RIGHT way to do it. Most of there stuff is overpriced, but the engineering rivals OEM.
+1

People don't understand that good engineering includes r&d, experience, quality of materials, reliability, maintainability etc.
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      02-26-2013, 12:43 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky View Post
Yes - it had 67K miles on it. The last 15K miles were with JB4 and 10K miles with meth.
You tell me after the mechanic opens up the clutch. This is purely a hunch, but you're looking at a clutch that is designed to nominally handle about 350 lbs of torque. You've tuned the engine to push what, about 450hp at the flywheel?

Simply put, the pressure plate isn't designed to withstand the full force of a tuned engine. Say something broke coming down the straight causing the "surge" symptoms, what potentially feels like slipping clutch...then you jump off throttle for the braking zone and all hell broke loose, something catastrophic happens to the clutch and cause the spinning crank to seize up. BAM. Cylinder 4's bearing spins free and punches a hole through the block.

The fact that you didn't leave fluid on track would suggest to me, that the smoke you see could possibly be the clutch going up in smokes. Whatever disintegrates in the clutch disconnects the flywheel and the transmission and no lock-up of the rear wheel.

I still think that the fact he clutch pedal is to the floor is suspicious. Doesn't hurt to look at it, since when the new engine is put in, you'll get a good look at the clutch. None of the clutch hardware is anywhere near enough to cylinder 4 for any sort of damage to cause the clutch to floor out...but a nuked pressure plate might (and that makes you wonder why the pressure plate is nuked when/if the engine blew first).
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      02-26-2013, 11:32 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
What else could it be? I can't see him blowing the motor from lack of octane or knock @ 14psi, the DME will protect the motor in that situation. Could be oil pump failure? The white smoke could be a turbo letting go but that wouldn't explain the clutch or the lack of compression in a cylinder.

None of the theories I've heard so far really jive with everything he's said...
Everyone on both threads is slowly leaning towards very obvious meth kit or fuel injector failure. Oil starvation would lead to bad bearings, like the high mileage NA/supercharged E90 M3 guys are seeing. Blown oil pump, would be a first ever reported for the N54.
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      02-26-2013, 11:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
You tell me after the mechanic opens up the clutch. This is purely a hunch, but you're looking at a clutch that is designed to nominally handle about 350 lbs of torque. You've tuned the engine to push what, about 450hp at the flywheel?
More like 420hp or so, but high quality post as usual, non the less, hack.
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      02-26-2013, 11:49 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Everyone on both threads is slowly leaning towards very obvious meth kit or fuel injector failure. Oil starvation would lead to bad bearings, like the high mileage NA/supercharged E90 M3 guys are seeing. Blown oil pump, would be a first ever reported for the N54.
How does the meth kit or stuck injector cause the clutch issue though?
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      02-26-2013, 11:51 AM   #29
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Not that I think it was an issue here, but overfilling oil can cause motor failure. If it's high enough in the sump so that the crank is eggbeating it, your oil can foam, break down, and motor fails.
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      02-26-2013, 02:13 PM   #30
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I really hope it wasn't the meth.
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      02-26-2013, 10:19 PM   #31
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All good posts, guys. These are all the same questions I've had running through my head for the last week.

UPDATE:
New motor arrived today - hopefully mechanic will start tomorrow. May be delayed a day or so as mechanic is swamped; more updates will follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
More like 420hp or so, but high quality post as usual, non the less, hack.
I think he meant ft. lbs of torque, not hp. I've seen plenty of dynos with similar mods to mine putting down 430 hp and 490 ft-lbs of torque to the rear wheels.

From N54Tech, BMS Meth Kit Thread (link)
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      02-27-2013, 01:22 PM   #32
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Sorry to hear about your loss but you are certainly taking it in strides!
Here's hoping your mechanic can shed some light into what happened.
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      03-05-2013, 10:51 PM   #33
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-------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE #2: 3/5 - Engine removed and root cause identified; hydrolock caused by methanol injection malfunction


Today the failed engine was removed from the car and the cause was identified without even needing to tear the engine apart... excessive methanol injection caused hydrolock which resulted in a hole blown through the bottom end of the long block on the driver side. CRAZY!

This is what I saw when I walked in the shop on my way home from work...



I hope I never see this again...





Failed engine removed from the car (below)



Note the Lamborghini Gallardo in the background



Hole blown through the driver side of the longblock above the oil pan, near the rear of the engine (closer to cylinder 6, farther from cylinder 1)





Chunks of metal were removed from the oil pan and fragments were found in the oil filter (below).





This means my ER dual oil coolers need to be flushed to ensure there's no remaining metal floating around in my oil lines.





Also, still need to inspect the turbos off my failed engine to ensure they're good to re-use on the new engine. I'd prefer to keep them as they only have 12,000 miles on them, whereas the new engine and turbos have ~27,000 miles. Turbos off of replacement engine and various spare parts shown in picture below as the replacement engine is being prepped for transplant surgery (i.e. - carbon buildup being removed and major cleaning to ensure all metal fragments removed).



Mechanic said there were still puddles of pink "boost juice" (pre-mixed methanol and distilled water in 49/51 ratio) inside the cylinders when he first gained access to the intake manifold. Basically, a smoking gun that the engine failure was caused by excessive methanol injection, which resulted in hydrolock. As far as what caused the methanol injection to malfunction, I have no idea. All I know is that my confidence in the BMS Methanol Injection kit is gone. I plan on ditching methanol completely and switching to a more track-friendly tune once my car is back up and running. Mechanic plans to have my car running by Friday (3/8).

Of all the people using JB4 and its functionality as an integrated methanol injection controller, I guess I'm the first lucky one to have this happen.
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      03-05-2013, 11:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
How does the meth kit or stuck injector cause the clutch issue though?
Could you please read post #33?
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      03-05-2013, 11:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky View Post
-------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE #2: 3/5 - Engine removed and root cause identified; hydrolock caused by methanol injection malfunction
At the track, I use 100 Octane Race gas. Yes, I like to "waste" my money! I don't do the raising octane with alcohols (meth/ethanol) thing. Besides all the short term issues like this, the long term danger is engine failure from corrosion, as warned by AAA.

Thanks for having the nads to report all that happened to you online. Too often, folks love to brag about stuff online, but when failures occur, they want to save face.
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      03-06-2013, 12:00 AM   #36
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Damn meth.
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      03-06-2013, 05:06 AM   #37
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Damn what a carnage

Good move to ditch that meth crap! For the track I would keep things as simple as possible. No stacking tunes, overcomplex fueling etc etc. More variables=more failures at the track.

Good luck with the fix. Hopefully the turbos and oilcoolers are fine.
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      03-06-2013, 09:18 AM   #38
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damn, sorry to hear that.


May I ask what you plan to do with the old engine pieces?
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      03-06-2013, 12:18 PM   #39
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Nice meth test. This is great info. Fortunately the OP is fine and no catastrophic failure occurred (loss of life).

For anybody that wants a proof why quality vendors charge more this shows you what reliable engineering is and is not.

OP, GL and keep the car as simple as possible while using quality parts.
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      03-06-2013, 03:21 PM   #40
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Could you please read post #33?
Don't know why you quoted me on this, I'm not sure it's possible to hydrolock the motor on a CM10 nozzle unless the nozzle broke. There's some discussion of this on the engine perf. forum also but they seem to think the meth kit just doesn't flow enough meth to hydrolock it that way?

If we're saying it's from detonation, okay maybe, although at 14psi thats unlikely.

OP I'd inspect your meth hardware and see where the failure might have occurred.
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      03-06-2013, 03:47 PM   #41
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Don't know why you quoted me on this,
Cuz everyone in the other thread including myself leaned towards either the meth kit, or fuel injector, you on the other hand dismissed this entirely, and choose to blame oil starvation, or oil pump failure. You were wrong, and I was just pointing this out.
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      03-06-2013, 04:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Cuz everyone in the other thread including myself leaned towards either the meth kit, or fuel injector, you on the other hand dismissed this entirely, and choose to blame oil starvation, or oil pump failure. You were wrong, and I was just pointing this out.
Feel better about yourself now?
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      03-06-2013, 05:10 PM   #43
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Feel better about yourself now?
YEP!
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      03-06-2013, 05:20 PM   #44
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YEP!
Glad we got you all fixed up. I'll try not to offer any opinions or discuss a scenario without clearing it with you or going along with the majority first. Sorry about that bro.
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