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      02-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #1
SBasinger
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Comfort Access v. No Comfort Access

I've got a few questions regarding cars equipped with Comfort Access and those without it.

Let's start with those with Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Cars without Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
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      02-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #2
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My car has Comfort Access, but I can't say I have ever tried what you propose. My understanding is that if you leave a key in or even near the car, it will not "go into sleep mode" and thus will have an even larger battery drain than the car has already.

I don't think it will let you lock a key in the car. I am happy to give it a try once I get home from my current business trip tomorrow night. You have piqued my curiosity.
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      02-28-2013, 02:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post

Cars without Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
I haven't got CA:

1) I don't understand. If you close the door via door switch how do you want to exit the vehicle? The door is closed and you are inside? You have to unlock it first...

2) The car does not care if you have a spare key and where it is. So it will not let you know that you left a second key inside.
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      02-28-2013, 02:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatgrandma View Post
I haven't got CA:

1) I don't understand. If you close the door via door switch how do you want to exit the vehicle? The door is closed and you are inside? You have to unlock it first...

2) The car does not care if you have a spare key and where it is. So it will not let you know that you left a second key inside.

1) Let me clear that up; you exit the vehicle, with the door still open, you press the switch to lock the doors, then close the door.

2) Really? I've owned three different vehicles, albeit not BMWs, with push button/comfort access like features, and none of them will allow me to lock my keys in the car. My Prius, for instance, automatically unlocks the doors and lets out a 10 second beep alerting you to the presence of a key within the vehicle.
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      02-28-2013, 02:34 PM   #5
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I've had both

with
1. The car pairs itself with one key...whichever key it detects first. So yes you can lock the car if your primary key was detected first. this also answer question 2.

I know because my wife has my spare and she sometimes leaves her purse in the car

without

1. why in the hell would you do that...that's the most common way to get yourself locked out.
2. yes you can lock the door with your spare key in the car...car does not detect the spare key
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      02-28-2013, 03:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post
1) Let me clear that up; you exit the vehicle, with the door still open, you press the switch to lock the doors, then close the door.
Like stated above... why in gods name would you do that?!
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      02-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatgrandma View Post
Like stated above... why in gods name would you do that?!
It's not me doing it.

I'm an attorney investigating a possibly fraudulent insurance claim and I'm trying to sort a few things out.

At this point, I'm getting conflicting information from various forums, service technicians and owners. It looks like I need to conduct a field investigation.
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      02-28-2013, 04:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post
1) Let me clear that up; you exit the vehicle, with the door still open, you press the switch to lock the doors, then close the door.

2) Really? I've owned three different vehicles, albeit not BMWs, with push button/comfort access like features, and none of them will allow me to lock my keys in the car. My Prius, for instance, automatically unlocks the doors and lets out a 10 second beep alerting you to the presence of a key within the vehicle.
The door lock switch on the dash does not work if any door is open. If you leave a spare key in the car, I dunno, but I know if you leave a spare key in the trunk it will pop back open and beep.
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      02-28-2013, 04:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post
It's not me doing it.

I'm an attorney investigating a possibly fraudulent insurance claim and I'm trying to sort a few things out.

At this point, I'm getting conflicting information from various forums, service technicians and owners. It looks like I need to conduct a field investigation.
ooohhh, now you've gotta spill the beans!
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      02-28-2013, 04:50 PM   #10
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Hi,
I read through the whole thread so I understand this is an experiment.


With Ca
1. You can't lock the doors with the door switch if a door is open.
You cannot lock yourself out if the key is in proximity.

2. Yes you can lock the door, but I don't know if the locking of the door takes priority and will prevent you from unlocking by grabbing the door handle.

Without Ca
1. You can't lock the doors with the door switch if a door is open.
With the remote you can trigger the lock function with the door open and throw the remote into the car and lock yourself out. otherwise, you are hard pressed to lock yourself out. You cannot lock yourself out by using the switch on the dash, because a door open means you can only unlock the rest of the doors.

2. Yes, you can lock the second key in the vehicle. Without CA, the car knows nothing about the remote. You will need a locksmith, primary remote, or a bat to open the car, if you do this. But you just used the first key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post
I've got a few questions regarding cars equipped with Comfort Access and those without it.

Let's start with those with Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Cars without Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
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      02-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khaye1 View Post
ooohhh, now you've gotta spill the beans!
In a nutshell, an individual recently reported his 335i stolen. The individual claims to have always left a spare in the car. The problem is, the supposed primary key the individual handed over to us indicates that it was last used to start the vehicle over a year ago.

This, coupled with numerous discrepancies in his various statements has the insurance company concerned.
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      02-28-2013, 05:33 PM   #12
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To the OP: if you in fact are a lawyer investigating an insurance claim, why not look at the information BMW publishes in its owner's manual rather than relying on anonymous (sometimes a synonym for clueless) contributers on an internet discussion board? Who in the world would pay you to do this?

(Incidentally, and perhaps of no relevance to your issues: when I picked up my Comfort Access-equipped car in Munich in 2008, I had been warned by BMW not to expect the insurer to respond to a theft claim unless I could produce or account for both keys.)
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      02-28-2013, 07:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
To the OP: if you in fact are a lawyer investigating an insurance claim, why not look at the information BMW publishes in its owner's manual rather than relying on anonymous (sometimes a synonym for clueless) contributers on an internet discussion board? Who in the world would pay you to do this?

(Incidentally, and perhaps of no relevance to your issues: when I picked up my Comfort Access-equipped car in Munich in 2008, I had been warned by BMW not to expect the insurer to respond to a theft claim unless I could produce or account for both keys.)
I am, in fact, a lawyer.

I'm simply gathering preliminary information and anecdotal evidence before I head down the road of retaining an automotive expert to look into, among other things, the accuracy of the data logged within the key.

Believe it or not, I'm on panel with five major insurance companies. So, to answer your question; a lot of people would pay me to do this.

As to you your final comment, that is 100%, unequivocally, and totally false.
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      02-28-2013, 08:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger
I've got a few questions regarding cars equipped with Comfort Access and those without it.

Let's start with those with Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Cars without Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
I have had CA on my last two BMWs. If you leave a spare key in the vehicle, the car will ignore it like it is not there. So, provided you have the other key in your pocket, you can lock and unlock car as usual. If you do not have a key in your pocket, the car will not unlock (or lock) as the system is able to detect the signal of spare key inside the car and not outside. As to the second question, the car will not allow you to use the lock button on dash to lock car and then exit regardless of whether or not the extra key in the vehicle.

Sounds like its time to have your insured give a deposition under oath.
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      02-28-2013, 08:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thp4 View Post
I have had CA on my last two BMWs. If you leave a spare key in the vehicle, the car will ignore it like it is not there. So, provided you have the other key in your pocket, you can lock and unlock car as usual. If you do not have a key in your pocket, the car will not unlock (or lock) as the system is able to detect the signal of spare key inside the car and not outside. As to the second question, the car will not allow you to use the lock button on dash to lock car and then exit regardless of whether or not the extra key in the vehicle.

Sounds like its time to have your insured give a deposition under oath.
I've already conducted an examination under oath. I'm just doing some follow-up to prepare my opinion.
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      02-28-2013, 08:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thp4 View Post
I have had CA on my last two BMWs. If you leave a spare key in the vehicle, the car will ignore it like it is not there. So, provided you have the other key in your pocket, you can lock and unlock car as usual. If you do not have a key in your pocket, the car will not unlock (or lock) as the system is able to detect the signal of spare key inside the car and not outside. As to the second question, the car will not allow you to use the lock button on dash to lock car and then exit regardless of whether or not the extra key in the vehicle.

Sounds like its time to have your insured give a deposition under oath.
The manual says you can't lock the car without having a key outside of the car but it doesn't say anything about unlocking it. It does make sense that it would ignore a key inside the car for locking and unlocking. That said, radio frequencies are tricky and not so easy to isolate between inside and outside.

Regardless, seems odd that someone would keep a spare key in their car.

OP, not sure if it is relevant but there are reports of people being able to steal Comfort Access vehicles easily:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712717
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      02-28-2013, 09:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
The manual says you can't lock the car without having a key outside of the car but it doesn't say anything about unlocking it. It does make sense that it would ignore a key inside the car for locking and unlocking. That said, radio frequencies are tricky and not so easy to isolate between inside and outside.

Regardless, seems odd that someone would keep a spare key in their car.

OP, not sure if it is relevant but there are reports of people being able to steal Comfort Access vehicles easily:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712717
Yeah, I saw that. I'd love to give my insured the benefit of the doubt, but there are just too many inconsistencies with their testimony.
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      03-01-2013, 11:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post
I am, in fact, a lawyer.


As to you your final comment, that is 100%, unequivocally, and totally false.
And your qualifications for offering an opinion on a German contract of insurance in Germany that you've never read or even seen would be . . . .?
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      03-01-2013, 02:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
And your qualifications for offering an opinion on a German contract of insurance in Germany that you've never read or even seen would be . . . .?
I apologize, I was under the impression you were referring to A US insurance carrier.

I can't speak to EU or German carriers.
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      03-02-2013, 01:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post
I am, in fact, a lawyer.

I'm simply gathering preliminary information and anecdotal evidence before I head down the road of retaining an automotive expert to look into, among other things, the accuracy of the data logged within the key.

Believe it or not, I'm on panel with five major insurance companies. So, to answer your question; a lot of people would pay me to do this.

As to you your final comment, that is 100%, unequivocally, and totally false.

A lawyer? I'm impressed! not.

I laugh a lawyers, enjoy a mediocre life.
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      03-02-2013, 02:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBasinger View Post
I've got a few questions regarding cars equipped with Comfort Access and those without it.

Let's start with those with Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Cars without Comfort Access:

1. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to lock the doors via the door switch, exit the vehicle, and close the door without the car automatically unlocking the doors?

2. If one were to keep their full function spare key within the vehicle, would they be able to exit the vehicle, close the door, then lock the car with their primary remote without the car automatically unlocking or alerting them that there is still a key present inside the vehicle?

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
TLDR other responses.

With CA:
1. No. The central door locking switch will not lock the doors if any door is open.
2. Yes. As long as the CA system detects a key outside, it will lock the car via CA. If you close the trunk with a key inside the trunk, the trunk will stay shut as long as it detects another key outside. If no key is detected outside, it will unlatch the trunk. If you actually press the buttons on the remote instead of using CA, it will lock no matter where the remote is.

Without CA:
1. No. The central door locking switch will not lock the door if any door is open.
2. Yes. Without CA, the car has no way to know if there is a key inside the vehicle unless it is in the ignition slot. The car will lock if the remote button is pressed no matter where it is.
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      03-02-2013, 04:48 AM   #22
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I have CA. The car will not lock with the keys inside. Good luck with your investigation!
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