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      02-28-2013, 02:11 PM   #1
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LSD and DTC ?

So i was woundering if installing a LSD in my D, it would not interfere with the stock E-lsd in our car. I believe that we could not get full protection of the DTC when for example here in Montreal in cold winter with icy roads and slush, driving on a highway in bad conditions when you want your DTC to work properly. Anyone could help me out figure a way of reprogramming the DTC like the M3 have ???
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      02-28-2013, 02:21 PM   #2
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I am thinking the opposite. I am thinking that its possible that the eLSD MAY actually help the TORSEN type LSD (like quaife) by applyin the brake, thus creating a load on the slipping wheel.
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      02-28-2013, 02:28 PM   #3
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I have pondered this issue a bit and wondered if I might be shooting myself (or my ride) in the foot by installing the LSD. I will try to assess the issue on or about 15 March after I have the Quaife installed. That is assuming I don't find out the hard way, in which case I may go into hiding.
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      02-28-2013, 08:39 PM   #4
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From what i understand, The DSC will kick in less frequently/quickly. I sincerely doubt hat you will be kicking yourself or your car anywhere...unless you get a speeding ticket on your test drive.
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      02-28-2013, 10:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dM View Post
So i was woundering if installing a LSD in my D, it would not interfere with the stock E-lsd in our car. I believe that we could not get full protection of the DTC when for example here in Montreal in cold winter with icy roads and slush, driving on a highway in bad conditions when you want your DTC to work properly. Anyone could help me out figure a way of reprogramming the DTC like the M3 have ???
I used to have a quaife on a VW I used to own and the traction control just came on less in the winter, but the car drove like a tank with winter tires. However on sheet ice, nothing will help much aside from studded tires.
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      03-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Installing a true LSD will not prohibit the function of e-LSD. In fact, if you are one of those worried about one-wheel no traction scenarios, the e-lsd actually helps an ATB work by providing a resistive force on the slipping wheel, which gets converted into a torque on the tractive wheel. This is the same as drag braking to get stuck from an ice or one-wheel situation.

Whether you need to reprogram the e-lsd to act more like an M3, I don't know if that would make an appreciable difference in street or track performance. I intend to run with DTC off anyway on the track (I have a Quaife on the way for my car).
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Do you mean all nannies off? As in, hold DTC button down for 5 seconds or so to shut off all electronic traction control (DSC). I need to find a safe place to try this out after the Quaife is installed in a couple of weeks.
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Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
All nannies off would eliminate the e-LSD. If you wanted the e-LSD assist you would go to DTC mode (press button once).

I will likely shut off the stability control entirely for the track using the method you described. I wouldn't ever do that on the street though.
So bottom line, with the eLSD feature of BMW, will Quaife work as well as Wavetrac in zero traction situations? In other words, will the car prevent all "zero/near zero" traction conditions, thus eliminating the need/benefit of wavetrac's friction disc.
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      03-02-2013, 07:54 PM   #7
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Just a side note: With all the nannies off, from my experience at the 1/4 track using Micheline PSS tires (drag slicks were fine unlike the PSS's), the eLSD was still functioning, but I had to manually let off the fuel pedal myself (as opposed to the computer modulating power) as I got sideways VERY rapidly...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=647595

"Tried once with traction control completely off and it was a fricken' clown show. Car nearly went sideways before I took my foot off the pedal. "
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      03-02-2013, 10:47 PM   #8
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TDI, you were not running a LSD during this event, correct?
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      03-02-2013, 11:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
TDI, you were not running a LSD during this event, correct?
Good question! Maybe we could get out and spray that stuff on the tires that basketball guys spray on their shoes.
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      03-02-2013, 11:44 PM   #10
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Is there a reason not to get the Wavetrac? Does the friction disk make less maintenance free?
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      03-03-2013, 07:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
TDI, you were not running a LSD during this event, correct?
Correct.

There's a lot of older threads about the e-LSD in the open diff bmw's and how it behaves with DSC/DTC and all nannies off. Those threads indicated the e-LSD was still operating with all nannies off, and my experience agrees with that (leaves 2 black tire marks upon heavy use of the skinny pedal).
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      03-03-2013, 11:45 AM   #12
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e-LSD is only on 08+ 335i and 135i.
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      03-03-2013, 12:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by index1489
e-LSD is only on 08+ 335i and 135i.
Not on -35d?!?!
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      03-03-2013, 01:26 PM   #14
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My Quaife LSD worked beautifully with the TC this winter on snow. You do need to be more carful in icy conditions since the LSD makes the rear end more mobile, and the TC doesn't always have time to cut in....but thats half the point of fitting a LSD, it makes the rear end more more predictable

Heres a good write up of just how good a LSD is on a 335i....In short you should have no worries
http://www.birdsauto.com/editorial/e...iew-april-2007
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      03-04-2013, 04:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gangzoom
My Quaife LSD worked beautifully with the TC this winter on snow. You do need to be more carful in icy conditions since the LSD makes the rear end more mobile, and the TC doesn't always have time to cut in....but thats half the point of fitting a LSD, it makes the rear end more more predictable

Heres a good write up of just how good a LSD is on a 335i....In short you should have no worries
http://www.birdsauto.com/editorial/e...iew-april-2007
Exactly what I was fearing about the rear being more mobile without dsc kicking in ! which is not the best in winter!
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      03-04-2013, 09:19 PM   #16
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I prefer more mobile as DTC is annoying as hell in the snow, often causing more harm than good.
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      03-05-2013, 01:25 AM   #17
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Exactly what I was fearing about the rear being more mobile without dsc kicking in ! which is not the best in winter!
You have nothing to worry about

I have onhy positive say about Quaife.

I have never have had any "dangerous" experiences with Quaife in slippery surfaces, only once in dry in the summer on the the first drive after Quaife was installed. I was taking off from intersection at full power and the backend of the car was trying to get pass me. That was only because I was trying to drive the car as I was driving it before the Quaife and traction control didn't have time to react the situation because of the enormous grip

In winter if you are driving icy roads, dsc works as it has always worked. And I have noticed one other positive feature with Quaife: if you get in the situation that it's very slippery and the car is understearing out of control (as our cars seem to do very easily), just put your foot down, turn the wheels to direction where you want to go and let the dsc do it's thing.
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      03-05-2013, 08:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
Not on -35d?!?!
The e-LSD is on my 2011 335d as verified with real world testing. And the manual states so as well...
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      03-06-2013, 07:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
The e-LSD is on my 2011 335d as verified with real world testing. And the manual states so as well...
Thanks Shouldv'e looked myself. (although its sort of buried in the paragraph, and not referred to as a particular feature).
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