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      03-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #1
AltecBX
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Lightbulb Breakdown of E85 mixtures & MPG performance

E100 (100% ethanol) has a yield of 34% less gas mileage than gasoline (10% ethanol/90% gas). Which means running 100% E85 (85% ethanol/15% gas) should yield 28.9% less gas mileage.
When running E30 (30% E85/70% Gas), it should yield 8.7% less gas mileage.
When running E40 (40% E85/60% Gas), it should yield 11.5% less gas mileage.
When running E50 (50% E85/50% Gas), it should yield 14.5% less gas mileage.
When running E85 (100% E85/0% Gas), it should yield 28.9% less gas mileage.


My local Shell gas station carries E85 for $3.79 and 93 for $4.39. That's a $0.60 difference or 14% savings a gallon over 93 octane.
This means that when our cars tank E90 (16.6 gal with reserve) is full with E30 (5 gal of E85 + 11.6 gal of gas) we save an additional $3.00 at the pump.
This also means that we lose mpg.
E30 = If you average 22mpg then you’ll average 20.1mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 333 miles per tank) {Savings of $3.00 at the pump}
E40 = If you average 22mpg then you’ll average 19.5mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 323 miles per tank) {Savings of $3.99 at the pump}
E50 = If you average 22mpg then you’ll average 18.8mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 312 miles per tank) {Savings of $4.98 at the pump}
E85 = If you average 22mpg then you’ll average 15.6mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 259 miles per tank) {Savings of $9.96 at the pump}


-So paying $3.79 for E85 and $4.39 for gas 93 at the pump nets to this.
E30 = You’ll be paying an average of $4.21 a gal - [$0.21 per mile]
E40 = You’ll be paying an average of $4.15 a gal - [$0.21 per mile]
E50 = You’ll be paying an average of $4.09 a gal - [$0.22 per mile]
E85 = You’ll be paying an average of $3.79 a gal - [$0.24 per mile]


Now I’m trying to figure the delta on how much power is introduced when 10% increase of ethanol is introduced (E30, E40, E50)... Maybe someone can give us some logs on their testing.

Last edited by AltecBX; 03-12-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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      03-12-2013, 03:51 PM   #2
shiv@vishnu
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Now compare running E85 to 100oct race gas (available at some gas stations here in CA) that costs $10/gallon. Because that is more comparable in terms of performance
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      03-12-2013, 03:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltecBX View Post
E100 (100% ethanol) has a yield of 34% less gas mileage than gasoline (10% ethanol/90% gas). Which means running 100% E85 (85% ethanol/15% gas) should yield 28.9% less gas mileage.
When running E30 (30% E85/70% Gas), it should yield 8.7% less gas mileage.
When running E40 (40% E85/60% Gas), it should yield 11.5% less gas mileage.
When running E50 (50% E85/50% Gas), it should yield 14.5% less gas mileage.
When running E85 (100% E85/0% Gas), it should yield 28.9% less gas mileage.


My local Shell gas station carries E85 for $3.79 and 93 for $4.39. That's a $0.60 difference or 14% savings a gallon over 93 octane.
This means that when our cars tank E90 (16.6 gal with reserve) is full with E30 (5 gal of E85 + 11.6 gal of gas) we save an additional $3.00 at the pump.
This also means that we lose mpg.
E30 = If you average 22mpg then you値l average 20.1mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 333 miles per tank) {Savings of $3.00 at the pump}
E40 = If you average 22mpg then you値l average 19.5mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 323 miles per tank) {Savings of $3.99 at the pump}
E50 = If you average 22mpg then you値l average 18.8mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 312 miles per tank) {Savings of $4.98 at the pump}
E85 = If you average 22mpg then you値l average 15.6mpg. (Drops from 365miles to 259 miles per tank) {Savings of $9.96 at the pump}


-So paying $3.79 for E85 and $4.39 for gas 93 at the pump nets to this.
You値l be paying an average of $4.21 for a mix of E30
You値l be paying an average of $4.15 for a mix of E40
You値l be paying an average of $4.09 for a mix of E50
You値l be paying an average of $3.79 for a mix of E85


Now I知 trying to figure the delta on how much power is introduced when 10% increase of ethanol is introduced (E30, E40, E50)... Maybe someone can give us some logs on their testing.
This is great....are you by chance an engineer my discipline? Reason I ask is simply because I was thinking of computing something similar...
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      03-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Now compare running E85 to 100oct race gas (available at some gas stations here in CA) that costs $10/gallon. Because that is more comparable in terms of performance
That's why I ask someone to post logs on different blends of E85 to post up figures on the difference in power(HP+TQ) we see from the different blends. We then can compare performance to 100 octane which is $9.99 locally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksalih View Post
This is great....are you by chance an engineer my discipline? Reason I ask is simply because I was thinking of computing something similar...
No I'm not.
PM me if you need help on something.
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      03-12-2013, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltecBX View Post
That's why I ask someone to post logs on different blends of E85 to post up figures on the difference in power(HP+TQ) we see from the different blends. We can then compare performance to 100 octane which is also $9.99 locally.
That's the tricky part about comparing 100oct octane gasoline to e85 by just looking at logs/dyno graphs. The race gas will perform admirably during short term tests (ie, few to several seconds of full boost followed by cooldown before the next full load test). Whereas the E85 will be far less sensitive to heat accumulation. Both in terms of IAT and in-cylinder/exhaust gas temps. Which means that E85 will provide you will one hell of a more powerful/consistent car during spirited driving and during drag racing where you run, idle in the pits for 20 minutes and then run again, idle, etc,. Assuming it's mapped to take advantage of it of course. Race gas is great but, like all gasolines, they don't provide as much in-cylinder cooling as E85. It's not until you get into the exotic race fuel blends ($16/gallon and up) that their super high motor octanes make up for their relative lack of chemical cooling by allowing you to support higher boost. Just my 2c,
shiv
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      03-12-2013, 04:23 PM   #6
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You get a good price on e85... in LA e85 costs the same as our premium 91... $4.30ish
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      03-12-2013, 04:35 PM   #7
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perhaps add the cost per mile, which would factor the cost of fuel and reduction in MPG.
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      03-12-2013, 04:43 PM   #8
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Dang 10 dollars a gallon for race gas?! Down here is around 7.. But e85 is 3.65! Definitely testing if I save money with mixing e85.
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      03-12-2013, 05:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwahlert View Post
perhaps add the cost per mile, which would factor the cost of fuel and reduction in MPG.
Done!
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      03-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SfValley335i View Post
You get a good price on e85... in LA e85 costs the same as our premium 91... $4.30ish
E85 here is 50 cents cheaper than 91.
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      03-12-2013, 05:46 PM   #11
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E85 is more comparable to the likes of c16 and q16 which are a lot more than your typical $10/gallon race gas.
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      03-12-2013, 05:50 PM   #12
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$3.50 up here in San Jose
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      03-12-2013, 05:57 PM   #13
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Nice work! Useful info.
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      03-12-2013, 09:37 PM   #14
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Great info, I could definitely tell the difference on miles per gallon when running E50.. But never really got around to track dollars per mile. I think I was averaging about 14 - 15 miles per gallon with E50. But then again My pro tune Wasn't designed for miles per gallon.
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      03-12-2013, 09:37 PM   #15
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Yup, $4.19 for 91 octane around here and $3.55 for E85. Typically 50 to 60 cents difference in price, but a huge difference in performance.
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      03-12-2013, 09:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave W. View Post
Yup, $4.19 for 91 octane around here and $3.55 for E85. Typically 50 to 60 cents difference in price, but a huge difference in performance.
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      03-12-2013, 10:37 PM   #17
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3.20 in my area(dfw) it was 2.80 not too long ago.. It was great lol.
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      03-13-2013, 10:15 AM   #18
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the bottom line is - assuming 22mpg on 93, and $3.79 for E85 and $4.39 for 93:

cost per mile on 93: 20 cents per mile
on e85 (28.9% less mpg): 24 cents per mile

small price to pay for the added performance.
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      03-13-2013, 10:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwahlert View Post
the bottom line is - assuming 22mpg on 93, and $3.79 for E85 and $4.39 for 93:

cost per mile on 93: 20 cents per mile
on e85 (28.9% less mpg): 24 cents per mile
I agree!
But I rather play in the E30-E40 range as you're only paying an extra penny a mile compared to 93 to play. Once we get more data on the performance increase on the extra mixtures, we can then justify the extra price to performance.
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Originally Posted by mwahlert View Post
small price to pay for the added performance.
Don't forget you'll need an upgraded LPFP to run E85.
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      03-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #20
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      03-13-2013, 10:38 AM   #21
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Walbro 465LPH

Why couldn't we use the cheaper Walbro 400LPH. ($159 vs $219)
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      03-13-2013, 12:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltecBX View Post
Why couldn't we use the cheaper Walbro 400LPH. ($159 vs $219)
Keep in mind the 400, 416, 430, 450, 465 variances some are "full" E85 ready, some are semi E85 compatibile and some are NOT E85 compatible at all.

The semi E85 ready version needs to be converted

As for why there is a 400, 416, 430, 465 of the same part number even though it is "full E85" ready from what I have "read" they have difference turbines. I am still awaiting a confirmation on this by Walbro. It could be flow modification done by different vendors, idk.

Also, there are knock off Walbro pumps in the market so be careful

Here is the Walbro PDF Data Specs for each part number

http://www.tiautomotive.com/wp-conte...talog_2013.pdf

Just make sure the Walbro Part # is F90000267 for Full E85 compatibility
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