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      09-19-2012, 03:30 PM   #1
808@702
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Car and Driver article (Camaro beats M6)

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In price, HP and torque. In price duh, but HP and torque???
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      09-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #2
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The ZL1 makes 580hp and 556tq...
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      09-19-2012, 04:11 PM   #3
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the m6 was faster in the 1/4 mile and to 60 i think
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      09-19-2012, 04:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
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The ZL1 makes 580hp and 556tq...
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
the m6 was faster in the 1/4 mile and to 60 i think
The ZL-1 has shown to be underwhelming in a straight line thus far, considering the power numbers.
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      06-18-2013, 04:00 PM   #5
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Anyone in Houston with a stock DCT M6/M5? I just bought the 13 ZL1 and I truly believe its not quicker from 70 to 140ish. I don't feel the M5 twin turbo hit.


I'm up for testing.
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      06-18-2013, 05:09 PM   #6
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the m6 was faster in the 1/4 mile and to 60 i think
At their lightning lap 2013, the ZL1 absolutely demolished the M6 around VIR, 2:57 to the m6's 3:04... 7 seconds! Yikes
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      06-18-2013, 05:13 PM   #7
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At their lightning lap 2013, the ZL1 absolutely demolished the M6 around VIR, 2:57 to the m6's 3:04... 7 seconds! Yikes
I can't see it in a straight line. We need testing.
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      06-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
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At their lightning lap 2013, the ZL1 absolutely demolished the M6 around VIR, 2:57 to the m6's 3:04... 7 seconds! Yikes
Lightning laps are a bad measurement. The drivers are not professional and the laps are not consistent. They did almost the same time as the ZL1 as the 1LE SS. Also different tracks play on cars different strengths. Both cars are difference is the ZL1 is a track car. The M6 is a luxury car that you can take to the track.
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      06-18-2013, 10:34 PM   #9
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Lightning laps are a bad measurement. The drivers are not professional and the laps are not consistent. They did almost the same time as the ZL1 as the 1LE SS. Also different tracks play on cars different strengths. Both cars are difference is the ZL1 is a track car. The M6 is a luxury car that you can take to the track.
Why are lightning laps a bad measurement? While ill agree that the cars are driven by journalists, its not like these guys are off the street and each car is driven multiple times. The SS did not do the same time as the ZL1, it was 4 seconds behind at 3:01 (which is also faster than the M6). VIR is far from the tightest, most technical track out there with at least 3 long straights. Of course the cars are different, but that isn't any excuse for a lap time. You can't say a Rolls Royce would be flying around here if they focused on speed instead of luxury, same goes for the M6. Lap times are lap times.

I like BMW just as much as the next guy, but you said it yourself; they're luxury cars, and a performance like this is what happens when you're 4000+ lbs.
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      06-18-2013, 11:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Why are lightning laps a bad measurement? While ill agree that the cars are driven by journalists, its not like these guys are off the street and each car is driven multiple times. The SS did not do the same time as the ZL1, it was 4 seconds behind at 3:01 (which is also faster than the M6). VIR is far from the tightest, most technical track out there with at least 3 long straights. Of course the cars are different, but that isn't any excuse for a lap time. You can't say a Rolls Royce would be flying around here if they focused on speed instead of luxury, same goes for the M6. Lap times are lap times.

I like BMW just as much as the next guy, but you said it yourself; they're luxury cars, and a performance like this is what happens when you're 4000+ lbs.
Lap times are not lap times. A car that excels on a long straight away track can be horrible on a tighter shorter track.

1. They use a bunch of different non-professional drivers, which equals inconsistency.

2. All the cars have different tire brands and sizes. This is just the beginning but there are just to many variables in the tests. You need control or the numbers are meaningless.

Yes the SS was slower but they even said they messed up on their best lap and needed better tires and it would neck and neck with the ZL1. This shows maybe the drivers can't handle that chassis more power. When you race you build a driving style. Some people are better with high momentum driving. Some are better with low momentum high powered cars. To be honest I recommend doing some track events and learning the craft.

If you ever raced the Nurburgring you learn real quick that magazine numbers are just that numbers. I am not saying this to defend the M6 or BMW I am saying this because people read magazines and take their numbers as gospel.
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      06-19-2013, 07:59 AM   #11
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M6 may be faster around an oval or the drag strip, but I wouldn't bet money on it anywhere else. Tire choice isn't up to the journalists, the OEM is responsible for that.

To your point about the experience of the drivers, which car do you think would benefit more from a pro? The manual ZL1 or the paddle-shift M6?
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      06-19-2013, 11:02 AM   #12
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http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-times-page-8

If you can read English, it's easy to see that these lightning lap tests aren't quite as amateur as you're making them out to be. The data collected by sector are very telling of what's going on and just how quick the ZL1 is. It's in the top 3 in nearly all sectors, second in some only to the Ferrari.

If you still think this test isn't fair because the rookie drivers "can't handle the power," ask yourself why they got such a good time out of the 458.

Last edited by yousefnjr; 06-19-2013 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Quote fixed
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      06-19-2013, 11:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-times-page-8

If you can read English, it's easy to see that these lightning lap tests aren't quite as amateur as you're making them out to be. The data collected by sector are very telling of what's going on and just how quick the ZL1 is. It's in the top 3 in nearly all sectors, second in some only to the Ferrari.

If you still think this test isn't fair because the rookie drivers "can't handle the power," ask yourself why they got such a good time out of the 458.
Insulting people makes you look unintelligent. I have no time to explain racing dynamics to you. Spend some time on a race track and less time reading magazines.
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      06-20-2013, 08:06 AM   #14
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If your idea of racing dynamics tells you the heavier, less powerful, more comfortable car should be faster, I'm glad you're keeping that to yourself.
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      06-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #15
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If your idea of racing dynamics tells you the heavier, less powerful, more comfortable car should be faster, I'm glad you're keeping that to yourself.
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      06-21-2013, 06:13 PM   #16
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I've talked a lot of crap about American cars in the past but WOW. Remember that part in the hobbit where Thorin goes "never have I been so wrong"? That's me recently. LOL
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      06-27-2013, 12:11 PM   #17
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The Camaro is a very, very nice car. I almost bought an SS instead of ordering another 3 series. It was a 51/49 decision honestly, my loyalty to the brand and my great service advisor kept me back at BMW. Tell me another new car for 38k with good handling, speed, and practicality/usability (Besides the Mustang).
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      06-27-2013, 12:31 PM   #18
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The Camaro is a very, very nice car. I almost bought an SS instead of ordering another 3 series.
They should of made it look more like the older Camaro though, I just can't get into them that much...(at least to the point of me buying one)
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