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      03-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #23
the1andonly
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Interesting. They are both rated at 200 hp, but the FRS/BRZ is much lighter. You do have to rev the hell out of the flat four to get that power though. A lot less low end torque. May be why the BMW feels faster??!?
The BRZ actually feels good down low but feels like it runs out of breath quickly after that...on the other hand mid-high is where the 128 becomes ultra responsive...
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      03-20-2013, 02:17 PM   #24
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Thanks all for the reply, money wise I never financed, bought the BMW cash as a CPO. I would be able to get the BRZ limited (does have a armrest ) for invoice at 27,350.-

Power wise I thought it is about on par with the 128i, and fine for me, not tracking or so. Was also looking at the Nissan 370Z, but two seats might be too limiting.

Well, I guess I just have take a test drive if I can, I did try the Genisis and was not a fan.
The backs seats in the Scion and Subby are so small its like you don't have them to begin with. So you are just as limited. The 370 is a completely different beast. If I was looking at those two I would take the 370 over the Scion or Subby
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      03-20-2013, 02:27 PM   #25
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As long as you dont mind your 0-60 mph being similiar to many beige-mobiles.
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      03-20-2013, 02:35 PM   #26
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I checked a Scion FRS out when my sister picked up her Rav4.
3 big things bothered me about the car:
I really don't like the wheels. They could be changed but to each his own.

I think the interior is cheap and not ergonomic at all. I was baffled at what controls what.

My very first thought when opening the door, "This should have just been a two seater because you have to be a double amputee up to your waist to fit in the back."
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      03-20-2013, 03:53 PM   #27
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Best options I found were the BRZ and the newly re-designed accord v6 coupe. Both are 30K fully loaded and haven't driven either, but I went and looked at and sat in the BRZ.
My girlfriend has the last gen V6 accord coupe, which is actually very similae mechanically to the new one. Same engine, suspension, etc, just tweaked. The inside got upgraded very nicely, but even the last gen had nice leather seats and a premium feel too. I really like her car a lot, the only thing is that it's physically very large for a 2 door, and the fuel economy is about the same as on my 135i (20ish).

Someone above mentioned the Hyundai genesis coupe, and ill say its crap. I honestly don't understand the fascination. Car and driver just tested the new accord and with its 278 horses it out-accelerates the 358 hp 3.8 genesis to 60 and to 1/4 mile. I usually say 1 "Hyundai horsepower" = 2/3 bhp. The accord weighs 200 lbs more and is down 80 horsepower, what gives?! The accord is very quality, very sporty for a larger FWD car, and you can still comfortably fit 4 tall people in it (a real back seat). I love it (but not as much as my 1er!!!)

The Toyobaru is very nice too, but not perfect. It feels great, I'm sure, but if you're not getting it as a track toy or as a curiosity, I don't think it makes sense until they make a couple changes.


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The next obvious question is how much will it cost you to upgrade the power?
This is a good point. It's the main complaint, and unfortunately it's almost always more expensive and difficult to up the power on a N/A engine versus a turbo.

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FBM Turbo Kit:

This should do the trick..
That's really cool! Too bad that'll never work for a DD. For a track monster, though, wow!
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      03-20-2013, 04:11 PM   #28
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As long as you dont mind your 0-60 mph being similiar to many beige-mobiles.
Well, its rated at 6.6sec 0-60, not much different than the 128i, no?

Looks like I should take a look again at the 370Z.....or just keep the BMW for a little longer. I'm just afraid, now were the warranty is over, it will be a costly endeavour.

Even though under warranty they replaced so far:

Dash board
Driver seat
Convertible top
Cooling fan
Navigation Screen
ABS sensor

And now seat seat heater stopped working and no warranty anymore.

Just wondering what else might come.
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      03-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #29
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When I was toying around with the idea of getting a different car I was looking at Subaru's and getting quotes. When I put 10,000 down, @ 2.9% for 36 months they want about $472 a month. My BMW currently costs me $220 a month with the loan I have for it. Subaru just wants too much money for their cars
Isn't the base price of the BRZ around $25,500? That's not bad really. Any car that is around that price with you putting $10,000 down and financing at 2.9.% for 3 years is going to cost the same amount, so it has nothing to do with Subaru. Lease rates on cars are a whole different story though. You can also find better financing rates with other lenders. For only $220/month on your BMW, you must have got a smoking deal or have a long term.
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      03-20-2013, 04:14 PM   #30
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I test drove both the 128i and BRZ when I was looking.

It's not the lack of power on the BRZ, its the lack of torque (151 compared to 200 ft lbs on the 128i). I just did not feel much get up and go on that car.

The other thing is that the BRZ has a funky power curve that sometimes felt just weird while driving. When you really revved it out to get the power, it felt like you were straining it. In comparison the 128i had a silky smoother, linear, and predictable feel. To me it feels like it just loves to be revved high.

I kinda liked the super low seating position of the BRZ though.
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      03-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #31
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the frs/brz are lacking in quality and amenities cuz they are $25K-ish cars. also, the frs/brz mantra is "affordable, back-to-basics, and fun to drive"--all of which the car has accomplished. the frs/brz is not a luxury coupe like the e82, nor is it trying to be. if you want a little bit of amenities to make your brz more special, then pay a couple grands more and get the limited version which offers climate control, fog lights, leather/alcantara seats, etc. sure the accord coupe offers more power for the money, but the accord is based off the sedan which they sell in super high volume enabling the price to be cheaper, not to mention its fwd and so has less mechanical parts which costs money. even the 370z shares chassis and mechanicals with other cars in the nissan/infiniti lineup which helps to make the care more affordable than it otherwise would be. cars with dedicated platforms typically would appear to be less of a value. look at the miata for example; for what you get, that car is quite pricey. bottom line is: if you are not in the market for an affordable, back-to-basics, and fun to drive NEW car, then the frs/brz is not for you. you really can't compare a luxury couple like an e82 which sells for at least $10K more with it. sure you can get a used e82 for the price of of new frs/brz, but then you're comparing new with used, in which case, if one can afford a new 135is, for example, then they might as well consider a used 997 which can be had for a similar price, etc.
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      03-20-2013, 05:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
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the frs/brz are lacking in quality and amenities cuz they are $25K-ish cars. also, the frs/brz mantra is "affordable, back-to-basics, and fun to drive"--all of which the car has accomplished. the frs/brz is not a luxury coupe like the e82, nor is it trying to be. if you want a little bit of amenities to make your brz more special, then pay a couple grands more and get the limited version which offers climate control, fog lights, leather/alcantara seats, etc. sure the accord coupe offers more power for the money, but the accord is based off the sedan which they sell in super high volume enabling the price to be cheaper, not to mention its fwd and so has less mechanical parts which costs money. even the 370z shares chassis and mechanicals with other cars in the nissan/infiniti lineup which helps to make the care more affordable than it otherwise would be. cars with dedicated platforms typically would appear to be less of a value. look at the miata for example; for what you get, that car is quite pricey. bottom line is: if you are not in the market for an affordable, back-to-basics, and fun to drive NEW car, then the frs/brz is not for you. you really can't compare a luxury couple like an e82 which sells for at least $10K more with it. sure you can get a used e82 for the price of of new frs/brz, but then you're comparing new with used, in which case, if one can afford a new 135is, for example, then they might as well consider a used 997 which can be had for a similar price, etc.
+1, frs and brz for its purpose and price range is king. They are great cars.
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      03-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Panther View Post
My very first thought when opening the door, "This should have just been a two seater because you have to be a double amputee up to your waist to fit in the back."
Including the back seat was most likely for keeping insurance costs down.
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      03-20-2013, 05:53 PM   #34
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I really like the BRZ. The FRS interior is just horrid. I've been in both cars, and for the extra ~1-2k id definitely go with the BRZ. The FRS radio looks out of place and the center trim looks weird. I love the BRZ's "aluminum" trim.

What sucks is that the BRZ is really rare. According to top gear for every 10 frs only 1 brz gets produced or something like that...

My friend has been trying to get a BRZ for a long time. There is one at the dealership nearby but it is about 35k, way over its 27k sticker. To put him on a waiting list will take 6 months for him to get his car..

I'm not too tall (6 ft .5~1 inch) but I could not fit in the back of the BRZ/FRS even with the seat pushed all the way up. My head banged against the ceiling. The roof line drops really fast and no way I would last more then 5 minutes in the back.

On the other hand, I sat in the drivers seat and got in a comfortable position. Turns out that meant pushing the seat all the way back for my legs to feel comfy.



Quality wise I am not sure, I guess we will know in a few years. The FRS and BRZ at the auto show were basically torn apart.

Acceleration may not be the best nor does it have back seats for anything except a few groceries or a bag, but who cares when you have fun! Its a great car just make sure it fits your needs : )

Also I agree with the person above who said the rims are nasty. Never been a fan of black and silver wheels.

edit: also i'm not sure what the purpose of that strap is on the shoulder of the seat. I pulled on it thinking it would make the seat move forward and I ended up just disconnecting it (its a little clip on button). To move the seat forward you have to press the lever at the bottom
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      03-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #35
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Subaru/Toyota could have knocked it out of the park, but instead they made a stupid ugly car.
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      03-20-2013, 06:49 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Greenkirby21 View Post
edit: also i'm not sure what the purpose of that strap is on the shoulder of the seat. I pulled on it thinking it would make the seat move forward and I ended up just disconnecting it (its a little clip on button). To move the seat forward you have to press the lever at the bottom
i believe it's for securing and positioning the seat belt to the proper position.

edit: actually, on second thought, i think it's for holding the seat belt so that you do not have to reach so far back to grab it.

Last edited by Kire; 03-20-2013 at 07:13 PM.
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      03-20-2013, 06:52 PM   #37
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Great chassis- fine engine - how hard is it to hire pinafarina????
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      03-20-2013, 07:00 PM   #38
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Great chassis- fine engine - how hard is it to hire pinafarina????
the car looks fine the way it is. many people think the e82 is fugly but for some reasons we love it.
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      03-20-2013, 08:58 PM   #39
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When the twins came out I had high hopes - a RWD car, from a respectable pair of automakers! But then I saw one. Between the cheap/nasty interior, and the funky doodads stuck all over the exterior, it reminded me of a cross between a 1981 Subaru GL Sedan, and a 1994 Nissan 240SX. This car was made for the Ricer/Drifter market, and will look hideous about 2 weeks after you drive it off the lot. To compare it to the 128 is a crime - the 128 does everything well, and you will love it all over again on a Saturday afternoon, when you wash and wax it. Conversely, the twins will make you the star of the next YouTube Drift video.

128 = Sophia Loren
Twins = Amy Winehouse
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      03-20-2013, 09:20 PM   #40
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The car weighs in the 2700-2800 lb range, the 128i weighs what? 3200-3300 lbs? That is where the BRZ/FRS makes up for the lack of power/torque is with is power to weight ratio. Yes it doesn't have a 50/50 distribution in weight but professional drivers are saying it handles better than Porsche's or other high end, top dollar street/race cars. The BRZ did Laguna Seca in the low 1:5x range, what has a stock 128i ever done it in if it's ever gone there?

The car is amazing but the lack of power doesn't make it that appealing. I personally would never own one unless it was for straight track duty. I laugh at all the young kids out there driving them around like its some sort of 120+ mph 1/4 trap speed car. The interior may look cheap, which is probably is for the most part, but they did it all from a weight saving perspective. Everyone hear hating on the interior and calling it cheap has a right but think of what you are currently driving......a BMW. It's not suppose to have a cheap interior since it is a luxury brand with style. The BRZ can not compare and shouldn't be hated on because of that. The engine, yes but the interior no. A true car fanatic would UNDERSTAND why it has cheap looking components. It's the next Miata as long as the young punk kids don't wreck them all trying to drift on the streets.

If the car had at least another 50 hp and 75-100 torque then it would be a great car and fun car to drive. But you can slap on a $3k-$5k turbo kit and boost that end up with power to unleash.
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      03-20-2013, 10:03 PM   #41
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Quote:
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I like the the BRZ. Only thing that is the killer is no sunroof option and it looks a little too similar to the Hyundai Genesis coupe.

If you think the lack of a sunroof is a problem, you don't understand the idea behind the BRZ in the slightest. Hint, look where the engine is mounted.

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Phenomenal handling....... just a little short on power as others have said. Probably still an improvement in power/weight over the 128.
Remember that German curb weights are different than US and Japanese curb weights. Germans include a passenger and luggage.

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How can you say that...you drive a 135? Totally disagree...I own a manual 128i and drove a manual BRZ...the power of the BMW destroys the BRZ...stock the BRZ sounds better...handling is a wash
Yup.

I own both as well, though I don't find the sound of the BRZ particularly appealing.

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Interesting. They are both rated at 200 hp, but the FRS/BRZ is much lighter. You do have to rev the hell out of the flat four to get that power though. A lot less low end torque. May be why the BMW feels faster??!?
Once again, German vs Japanese curb weights. Closer than you would think.

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Cheap interiors, seating position does not go low enough for us tall people, back seat is not suitable for anyone over the age of 3, trunk is tiny, underpowered, but the trade off is its cheapish.
6'5" and I fit just fine, so I'm not sure what your problem is seating wise.

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Originally Posted by Kire View Post
the car looks fine the way it is. many people think the e82 is fugly but for some reasons we love it.
E82 is pretty ugly with its droopy side skirts and girly eye headlights.

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Originally Posted by Vigilante375 View Post
The car weighs in the 2700-2800 lb range, the 128i weighs what? 3200-3300 lbs? That is where the BRZ/FRS makes up for the lack of power/torque is with is power to weight ratio. Yes it doesn't have a 50/50 distribution in weight but professional drivers are saying it handles better than Porsche's or other high end, top dollar street/race cars. The BRZ did Laguna Seca in the low 1:5x range, what has a stock 128i ever done it in if it's ever gone there?
128i weighs in at 3200lbs with iDrive and sunroof. Significantly less without.
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      03-21-2013, 12:00 AM   #42
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Isn't the base price of the BRZ around $25,500? That's not bad really. Any car that is around that price with you putting $10,000 down and financing at 2.9.% for 3 years is going to cost the same amount, so it has nothing to do with Subaru. Lease rates on cars are a whole different story though. You can also find better financing rates with other lenders. For only $220/month on your BMW, you must have got a smoking deal or have a long term.
Correct. I just find it difficult the pricing they are asking a month for a BRZ...Granted, it is leased and warrantied, but what I was trying to explain is what the car has to offer. I like the car, I was contemplating owning one. But you also have other options for $400 a month (if that is what you wanted to spend monthly; I'm speaking out of opinion).

Yes, I did find a steal on my 135i (not only the private sale, but the loan itself)...and we do a lot of business with the bank I got the loan for. But what I was saying is for the money, it just seems like a lot for what the car has to offer, that's all. Again, out of opinion. I have never driven one, I would love to, as well as drive an FRS. So I guess my post is invalid anyway lol
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      03-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #43
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128 = Sophia Loren
Twins = Amy Winehouse
Thats funny, but my car reminds me of a playful, sexy German Girl with curves in all the right places, not an old Italian actress... even though she was gorgeous!




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      03-21-2013, 12:56 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angerman View Post
When I was toying around with the idea of getting a different car I was looking at Subaru's and getting quotes. When I put 10,000 down, @ 2.9% for 36 months they want about $472 a month. My BMW currently costs me $220 a month with the loan I have for it. Subaru just wants too much money for their cars
Is your current BMW on a 36 month loan?
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