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      05-13-2013, 04:02 PM   #177
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The mythology Abraham and his bio from genesis is meant for symbolic purposes.... It was a story and hold limited value....

Religion IMO is used by many as for guidance in life... A reason to justify ourselves and governs people....

I generally feel that religion causes divisions among people.... All human beings breathe air, have blood flowing thru out our bodies.... YET it is religion that puts man against man...

I like to follow logic and common sense.... To govern my life and my choices and actions through out... And look and treat others with respect as equals...


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      05-13-2013, 09:39 PM   #178
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There are writings from the time that refer to Ur, Abraham, Lot, etc.

Agree that "religion" is too often co-opted by one man, and used against another. But everyone has to determine what they believe - in a perfect world we would all do that for ourselves, without any other man's intervention.
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      05-13-2013, 11:11 PM   #179
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Believe in yourself .... Key to salvation

We all praise god when something good happens in life.. Win the lottery .... Surviving a car accident...

But who do we blame for something going wrong... Like family member dying (never wish death on no one)... Or losing your house to bankruptcy?.... Certainly not the man upstairs?

Bottom line is that... We as individuals control our own destiny... Our fate (good or bad)...and thru logical thinking... We make rational decisions that govern our actions...
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      05-14-2013, 04:46 AM   #180
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^ any who's an atheist has never been at the door of death
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      05-14-2013, 08:49 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex
Believe in yourself .... Key to salvation

We all praise god when something good happens in life.. Win the lottery .... Surviving a car accident...

But who do we blame for something going wrong... Like family member dying (never wish death on no one)... Or losing your house to bankruptcy?.... Certainly not the man upstairs?

Bottom line is that... We as individuals control our own destiny... Our fate (good or bad)...and thru logical thinking... We make rational decisions that govern our actions...
Believe in yourself? Logical decision-making won't avert cancer, Alzheimer's, or most other diseases. What role does circumstance play?
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      05-14-2013, 09:13 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Believe in yourself? Logical decision-making won't avert cancer, Alzheimer's, or most other diseases. What role does circumstance play?
Imagining that we can control our universe is all about ego and self-delusion.
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      05-14-2013, 10:21 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex
Believe in yourself .... Key to salvation

We all praise god when something good happens in life.. Win the lottery .... Surviving a car accident...

But who do we blame for something going wrong... Like family member dying (never wish death on no one)... Or losing your house to bankruptcy?.... Certainly not the man upstairs?

Bottom line is that... We as individuals control our own destiny... Our fate (good or bad)...and thru logical thinking... We make rational decisions that govern our actions...
Believe in yourself? Logical decision-making won't avert cancer, Alzheimer's, or most other diseases. What role does circumstance play?
Answer me this....
Under those circumstances... Would you blame god for being diagnosed with those diseases?

And/or

Will you praises The Lord after science and modern day medicine cures you?
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      05-14-2013, 10:26 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldArmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Believe in yourself? Logical decision-making won't avert cancer, Alzheimer's, or most other diseases. What role does circumstance play?
Imagining that we can control our universe is all about ego and self-delusion.
Also, most cancers can possibly be subsided by healthy choices like proper dieting... Vegetarianism... Not smoking... Not drinking alcohol or ingesting narcotics....

I read some where... That the causes of many diseases could be due to the lack of oxygen in the blood.... Yoga could be the cure
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      05-14-2013, 11:46 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by P-rex View Post
Answer me this....
Under those circumstances... Would you blame god for being diagnosed with those diseases?

And/or

Will you praises The Lord after science and modern day medicine cures you?
Yes, i will praise the Lord for the life i had been given. Should "science" and modern medicine cure me i will praise him for that as well.

So many people think that science is inventing something. Science is only figuring out what already is. Science didn't invent red blood cells, or even white ones, we had just advanced enough in technology to discover them. Then some years later they figured out what they do for us and if you think their conclusions is the end all to what our blood cells do; then in my opinion, you are quite naive yourself. Don't forget that at one time the top scientists believe we were the center of the universe and at one time they believed that the sun revolved around us and at one time they believed the earth was flat. So with the incredible rate of technology growth, imagine how stupid scientists and modern day medicine will look in even a short span of 100 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex View Post
Also, most cancers can possibly be subsided by healthy choices like proper dieting... Vegetarianism... Not smoking... Not drinking alcohol or ingesting narcotics....

I read some where... That the causes of many diseases could be due to the lack of oxygen in the blood.... Yoga could be the cure
Yes, diet and lifestyle play much more of a role in our individual health than originally believed. But that doesn't explain why my friends 15 year old brother who has never smoked, done drugs, drank or anything other than playing sports, being fit and active had to have a lung removed due to cancer.

So far, our scientists can't explain that and thankfully our modern day medicine was able to give him a new lease on life.
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      05-14-2013, 01:08 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Yes, it actually will in many cases. You can minimize some risks by making logical decisions. There is a huge genetic probability that plays a factor, but type 2 diabetes and most heart diseases can be avoided with a proper diet, and exercise alone. The risk of many forms of cancer can be addressed by "logical decision making". And circumstance plays a huge role as well... class, wealth, location, etc...

To sum it up, you are wrong.
Meh, some things happen that can't be explained or blamed on anything too. I wouldn't say he is completely wrong. I can see both sides of the coin.
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Last edited by Templar; 05-14-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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      05-14-2013, 03:12 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex View Post
Answer me this....
Under those circumstances... Would you blame god for being diagnosed with those diseases?

And/or

Will you praises The Lord after science and modern day medicine cures you?
Yes, i will praise the Lord for the life i had been given. Should "science" and modern medicine cure me i will praise him for that as well.

So many people think that science is inventing something. Science is only figuring out what already is. Science didn't invent red blood cells, or even white ones, we had just advanced enough in technology to discover them. Then some years later they figured out what they do for us and if you think their conclusions is the end all to what our blood cells do; then in my opinion, you are quite naive yourself. Don't forget that at one time the top scientists believe we were the center of the universe and at one time they believed that the sun revolved around us and at one time they believed the earth was flat. So with the incredible rate of technology growth, imagine how stupid scientists and modern day medicine will look in even a short span of 100 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex View Post
Also, most cancers can possibly be subsided by healthy choices like proper dieting... Vegetarianism... Not smoking... Not drinking alcohol or ingesting narcotics....

I read some where... That the causes of many diseases could be due to the lack of oxygen in the blood.... Yoga could be the cure
Yes, diet and lifestyle play much more of a role in our individual health than originally believed. But that doesn't explain why my friends 15 year old brother who has never smoked, done drugs, drank or anything other than playing sports, being fit and active had to have a lung removed due to cancer.

So far, our scientists can't explain that and thankfully our modern day medicine was able to give him a new lease on life.
A comment on your blurb on scientist thinking the earth is the center of the universe....

The geocentric model (earth as stationary and all things revolve around the earth) dates back to Ancient Greece and prominently Aristotle... There is also passages in the bible that suggest the same (ie. Joshua 10:12 and Psalm 93:1)

I think Genesis also makes reference to this.... Not sure thou
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      05-14-2013, 03:39 PM   #188
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A comment on your blurb on scientist thinking the earth is the center of the universe....

The geocentric model (earth as stationary and all things revolve around the earth) dates back to Ancient Greece and prominently Aristotle... There is also passages in the bible that suggest the same (ie. Joshua 10:12 and Psalm 93:1)

I think Genesis also makes reference to this.... Not sure thou
My point is that being grounded in science is not much different than being grounded in a religion. In the same way as you claim religion is, science is also brought to us by fallible man.

You, without personally witnessing either story (Abraham vs Mesopotamia) choose to believe one over another with little to no rational reason as to why. You weren't present at either event and only know about them from what other people have told you and what you have read. You are certainly free to believe what you wish and even proclaim what you believe as fact. But the bottom line as you put it is this.... you don't know.... none of us do. We only know what we've been told and what we have read. There are multiple sides to these stories and ultimately, we as individuals choose which ones we believe.
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      05-14-2013, 03:39 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Sure, shit will happen, but to say that you have no control over it is simply false. I run 5 miles a day, and eat healthy (most of the time), sure I still have the chance of getting a terrible disease, but I have better odds than the fat f@ck who is smoking two packs a day, and eats a bag of doritos every night. The biggest factor is your genetic make-up, in which case bad shit might happen no matter what.
You have a lot of control, but not all control. That's all I'm trying to say.
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      05-14-2013, 04:03 PM   #190
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I think it's my fault that we are way off topic....

This should be a new thread
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      05-14-2013, 04:46 PM   #191
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I can't beleive you did this
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      05-14-2013, 04:48 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Meh, some things happen that can't be explained or blamed on anything too. I wouldn't say he is completely wrong. I can see both sides of the coin.
Sure, shit will happen, but to say that you have no control over it is simply false. I run 5 miles a day, and eat healthy (most of the time), sure I still have the chance of getting a terrible disease, but I have better odds than the fat f@ck who is smoking two packs a day, and eats a bag of doritos every night. The biggest factor is your genetic make-up, in which case bad shit might happen no matter what.
My point was that there are far more things we can't control than we can. Yes - we should always make wise choices, but wise choices do not ensure a successful outcome.
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      05-14-2013, 04:58 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex
Believe in yourself .... Key to salvation

We all praise god when something good happens in life.. Win the lottery .... Surviving a car accident...

But who do we blame for something going wrong... Like family member dying (never wish death on no one)... Or losing your house to bankruptcy?.... Certainly not the man upstairs?

Bottom line is that... We as individuals control our own destiny... Our fate (good or bad)...and thru logical thinking... We make rational decisions that govern our actions...
Believe in yourself? Logical decision-making won't avert cancer, Alzheimer's, or most other diseases. What role does circumstance play?
Answer me this....
Under those circumstances... Would you blame god for being diagnosed with those diseases?

And/or

Will you praises The Lord after science and modern day medicine cures you?
Some responses:

- I don't need to meet George Washington or Abe Lincoln to know they existed - the historical record confirms it. Same with Abraham.

- I absolutely embrace science - it's simply further proof of God's existence, and omniscience.

- Faith is the differentiator between "blaming" God, vs. understanding that He has a plan that we don't understand. But this is a personal thing - no person will "convince" you.
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      05-14-2013, 05:07 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
My point was that there are far more things we can't control than we can. Yes - we should always make wise choices, but wise choices do not ensure a successful outcome.
And control is the least of it. What do we really think we "know"? In a cosmic sense we have a pitifully small range of vision and understanding. If there were only a million things to actually "know" how many do you think man has understanding of? Perhaps a dozen or so? Science helps us cope, helps us in some small way to manipulate our environment but it only complements what may be called "faith". Actual control grows from knowledge and, in the macro, we have almost none of either.
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      05-14-2013, 05:50 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-rex
Believe in yourself .... Key to salvation

We all praise god when something good happens in life.. Win the lottery .... Surviving a car accident...

But who do we blame for something going wrong... Like family member dying (never wish death on no one)... Or losing your house to bankruptcy?.... Certainly not the man upstairs?

Bottom line is that... We as individuals control our own destiny... Our fate (good or bad)...and thru logical thinking... We make rational decisions that govern our actions...
Believe in yourself? Logical decision-making won't avert cancer, Alzheimer's, or most other diseases. What role does circumstance play?
Answer me this....
Under those circumstances... Would you blame god for being diagnosed with those diseases?

And/or

Will you praises The Lord after science and modern day medicine cures you?
Some responses:

- I don't need to meet George Washington or Abe Lincoln to know they existed - the historical record confirms it. Same with Abraham.

- I absolutely embrace science - it's simply further proof of God's existence, and omniscience.

- Faith is the differentiator between "blaming" God, vs. understanding that He has a plan that we don't understand. But this is a personal thing - no person will "convince" you.
I respect you views.... To each their own...

I would like to see proof of Abraham's existence outside of text.... I can't seem to find one personally

I personally like buddha's approach to formed religion... He preached to his followers not to concentrate on "god" ... But on oneself and through medication (I think) one can reach enlightenment and be one with god.... I could be wrong but that's what I read...

IMO - people claim to be followers of a religion and yet ... Don't follow the basic tenants...
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      05-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #196
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thru MEDICATION??? Meditation I think is the thing he professed to his followers
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      05-15-2013, 02:48 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede
thru MEDICATION??? Meditation I think is the thing he professed to his followers
Thanks

Damn it ...iPhone auto-spell/correct
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      05-15-2013, 02:56 PM   #198
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^ what's the difference lol. i recall reading/hearing somewhere that spiritual meditation and drugs actually light up the same parts of the brain
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