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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Heel Toe Advice



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      09-18-2014, 01:04 AM   #1
oogabooga
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Heel Toe Advice

I tried searching for some info regarding this but couldnt find anything really relevant to the question I have...

How is everyone Heel toe downshifting these BMWs? I have a size 12 shoe and I cant manage to get my heel on the gas pedal and toe on the brake. I can however get my heel on my brake pedal and toe on the tip of the gas pedal but i dont have a lot of control this way especially since i have to work the clutch too. Any advice on what spots of the gas pedal to hit with my heel and how to angle my foot would be appreciated. I've watched videos online but its seems like other cars out there have more space between the gas pedal and the side of the car - allowing more room for your heel.

... For the time being i'll just stick to rev matching and then quickly jumping on the brake haha.
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      09-18-2014, 01:07 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oogabooga View Post
I tried searching for some info regarding this but couldnt find anything really relevant to the question I have...

How is everyone Heel toe downshifting these BMWs? I have a size 12 shoe and I cant manage to get my heel on the gas pedal and toe on the brake. I can however get my heel on my brake pedal and toe on the tip of the gas pedal but i dont have a lot of control this way especially since i have to work the clutch too. Any advice on what spots of the gas pedal to hit with my heel and how to angle my foot would be appreciated. I've watched videos online but its seems like other cars out there have more space between the gas pedal and the side of the car - allowing more room for your heel.

... For the time being i'll just stick to rev matching and then quickly jumping on the brake haha.
cover the right side of the brake with the left side of your foot and the left side of the accel with the right side of your foot. you only need to cover about 30% of the brake pedal with your foot and you should have plenty of room to reach over. whne you're actually braking the pedals are in line with one another and you can roll your foot to the right to blip the throttle.
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      09-18-2014, 01:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by jeffblue View Post
cover the right side of the brake with the left side of your foot and the left side of the accel with the right side of your foot. you only need to cover about 30% of the brake pedal with your foot and you should have plenty of room to reach over. whne you're actually braking the pedals are in line with one another and you can roll your foot to the right to blip the throttle.
Thank you! i'll give that a try tomorrow morning. Just for clarification, i want to keep on the brake when I blip the throttle right? or does it just depend on the situation?
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      09-18-2014, 01:13 AM   #4
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well, i mean you can blip the throttle to just rev match whenever, but 'heal toe' is basically blipping the throttle while braking, so yes you want to keep brake pressure while you blip the throttle. it defeats the purpose if you let off the brake.
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      09-18-2014, 01:19 AM   #5
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcxHi6FlGLo#t=431
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      09-21-2014, 08:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oogabooga View Post
I tried searching for some info regarding this but couldnt find anything really relevant to the question I have...

How is everyone Heel toe downshifting these BMWs? I have a size 12 shoe and I cant manage to get my heel on the gas pedal and toe on the brake. I can however get my heel on my brake pedal and toe on the tip of the gas pedal but i dont have a lot of control this way especially since i have to work the clutch too. Any advice on what spots of the gas pedal to hit with my heel and how to angle my foot would be appreciated. I've watched videos online but its seems like other cars out there have more space between the gas pedal and the side of the car - allowing more room for your heel.

... For the time being i'll just stick to rev matching and then quickly jumping on the brake haha.
I have the exact same problem due to the fact that I have a size 12 too.

If I try to use my "heel" to blip the throttle, my heel hits the tunnel and I never make it to the pedal.

Try what jeffblue said. I've been using that technic for years now. I race in SCCA and BMWCCA events all the time and do this every time.

Practice, with the car on so you can hear how much throttle you're giving, in your driveway not moving. This will allow you go get the feel before you go out on the road. Once you go out on the road, do NOT try it with anyone around you. They'll probably end up rear ending you because you'll over brake the first few times.
Conscentrate on keeping the same pressure on the brake the entire time as you roll your foot over to blip the throttle. That is critical for smooth heel-toeing.

Do it every time you are slowing down for practice. It'll become second nature after a while.
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      09-22-2014, 02:33 PM   #7
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I tried using the toe/toe method as everyone above described. The hardest part is definitely keeping constant brake pressure (or any at that) while I blip the throttle. I'll keep up with practicing it
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      09-22-2014, 05:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oogabooga View Post
I tried using the toe/toe method as everyone above described. The hardest part is definitely keeping constant brake pressure (or any at that) while I blip the throttle. I'll keep up with practicing it
Definitely keep practicing. It took me a while too. I have VERY narrow feet on top of it (B width), so I really have to twist my foot.

If it's too difficult to get both pedals at the same time, you can always get the extension on the throttle pedal, like this:
http://www.ultimatepedals.com/pedal.htm

I had one with the extension on the upper left and it made a HUGE difference.
I can do it on my race car without the extension. I really have to reach over and twist pretty hard to get the throttle, but I can safely do it time after time.
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      09-22-2014, 08:03 PM   #9
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Just like the others have said. In a BMW, you really can't heel-toe like a conventional car. You need to pivot on your right foot. I wear simple Vans shoes while tracking because the shoes are flat and somewhat wide. It's fairly simple once you get the hang of it.
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      09-24-2014, 06:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffblue View Post
cover the right side of the brake with the left side of your foot and the left side of the accel with the right side of your foot. you only need to cover about 30% of the brake pedal with your foot and you should have plenty of room to reach over. whne you're actually braking the pedals are in line with one another and you can roll your foot to the right to blip the throttle.
I'm actually dealing with a lower leg injury from this exact rolling motion. Kills my right leg during Rallycross runs now unless I wrap my right calf in ACE bandage. Who knew there was RDS (repetitive driving syndrome).
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      09-24-2014, 06:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E30_335i View Post
I'm actually dealing with a lower leg injury from this exact rolling motion. Kills my right leg during Rallycross runs now unless I wrap my right calf in ACE bandage. Who knew there was RDS (repetitive driving syndrome).
maybe it has to do with ur posture or something else. a lot of times with RSI's its not the motion itself that is the cause for the inflamation or pain but ur posture and body position while doing that motion. using a mouse or keyboard will not give u carpal tunnel syndrome unless you do so with poor posture, resting your wrists with your tendon sheaths on the desk or hand rest causing friction between the tendon and the sheeth. your wrists should be in a neutral position not bent upwards resting on anything while typing. obviously a different scenario but i'd look at other factors before chalking it up to this motion itself

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      09-24-2014, 07:16 AM   #12
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No its definitely the pedal action in my E30. I'm 6'4" and the angle of my ankle/lower leg while braking and throttle blipping puts the braking stress right into my tendon since I'm pressing hard on the brakes, with only the side of my foot. I have Corbeau racing seats and 5-point harness, so posture and positioning are not the issue.
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      09-24-2014, 12:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E30_335i View Post
No its definitely the pedal action in my E30. I'm 6'4" and the angle of my ankle/lower leg while braking and throttle blipping puts the braking stress right into my tendon since I'm pressing hard on the brakes, with only the side of my foot. I have Corbeau racing seats and 5-point harness, so posture and positioning are not the issue.
These might help
http://tiltonracing.com/product-cate...ls/600-series/
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      09-24-2014, 03:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by E30_335i View Post
No its definitely the pedal action in my E30. I'm 6'4" and the angle of my ankle/lower leg while braking and throttle blipping puts the braking stress right into my tendon since I'm pressing hard on the brakes, with only the side of my foot. I have Corbeau racing seats and 5-point harness, so posture and positioning are not the issue.
These might help
http://tiltonracing.com/product-cate...ls/600-series/
Thanks a lot... I already have a long enough list of "to-do mods" on my car and now I have to add these to my list haha. They look sweet though
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      09-25-2014, 04:29 PM   #15
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It's more difficult with stock pedals. I bought a set of TMS aluminum racing pedals. Lots of grip and the brake/gas are closer together.

I have found that the hard part is just keeping the brake pressure steady while you're blipping the throttle. Getting the RPMs correct will not be a problem once you achieve that part. Practice practice practice
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      09-27-2014, 04:42 PM   #16
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I've always felt that the trouble with heel/toe is the name. It's too easy to take it literally and force yourself to attempt to actually use your heel and toe... because hey, that's what it's called right?

I'm pretty sure the actual term stems from cars in the ~30's where the brake pedal was actually located under the accelerator pedal, below your heel.

If you put a portion of your foot (around 30% as mentioned above is good) over the brake pedal and sort of jab your knee in the direction of the accelerator, it will push the other side of your foot over the accelerator pedal pretty easily without needing to concentrate on trying to really twist/rotate your ankle. It's a good way to learn and get the hang of it before finding your own technique for the specific car/your specific feet.
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