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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Garrett GTX 2863R Turbo Chargers



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      03-24-2013, 01:50 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Not talking tuning, just fab. There is very little room for upgraded twins.
Yes, the space is limited. However, I believe this is why op was thinking about gtx2863r because externally they are very small, similar to the stock turbos. The advantage in fitting twins in there is the ability to use simple and tiny stock like exhaust manifolds. Fabbing an exhaust manifold for a single is hard and expensive, because yes, the space is limited Still, a single will be cheaper because the turbo expense is less.

Gtx2863r and the smaller end GTX-range in general is quite new and I believe people just haven't been thinking about it. I believe there could be some demand for this kind of an upgrade. Those could be plugged right into the same space where the stockers reside. Also the DPs should be a bit different from the current DP upgrades.

Last edited by jippii ensio; 03-24-2013 at 04:28 AM.
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      03-24-2013, 08:42 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by SfValley335i View Post
Investment and potential to sell units...

Example, looking at the FRS/BRZ market, they made turbo kits within a few months. Why? Because they have a lot of people willing to invest into it.
And that car needs it because it is slow as piss.
Haha crap, you beat me to it. Slow ass cars.
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      03-24-2013, 09:46 AM   #47
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Hahahaha ^^ well said


Haha most of us have real jobs on this site and cant play around with a car that we use everyday. Vargas has been building turbos for year and it took them 3 months to get this stage 3 kit down and is almost in production. If you want your car to sit in your garage forever torn apart trying to fit in between the little space you have to work with, then be my guest. How long have you been building turbo setups? I would rather spend the money on something like Vargas or FFTEC single setup. Me personally, I have already made up my mind and am selling my RB's to get a set of the stage 3's when they go into full production. Have fun building your kit that will never be completed while I have a car thats in the shop for hmm maybe 3 to 4 days.... I think paying the money is just a little bit of a better idea than your dumb idea of buying a set of turbos and slapping them on a BMW.... This isnt a civic buddy but maybe you should get one.. They have lots of slap on kits so I hear...haha
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      03-24-2013, 10:01 AM   #48
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Lol people are so cheap on this site. You got to pay to play going fast is expensive. Vargas kit isn't that badly priced.
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      03-24-2013, 10:37 AM   #49
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I think people are forgetting that Vargas is a business and not a charity.

Demand and supply.

If his price is in fact too high, he would eventually have to reduce to sell more. I think though, that his kit is well priced.

GL with your cheap China build.
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      03-24-2013, 11:19 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by boostaholic786
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Originally Posted by Zebra99 View Post
Hahahaha ^^ well said


Haha most of us have real jobs on this site and cant play around with a car that we use everyday. Vargas has been building turbos for year and it took them 3 months to get this stage 3 kit down and is almost in production. If you want your car to sit in your garage forever torn apart trying to fit in between the little space you have to work with, then be my guest. How long have you been building turbo setups? I would rather spend the money on something like Vargas or FFTEC single setup. Me personally, I have already made up my mind and am selling my RB's to get a set of the stage 3's when they go into full production. Have fun building your kit that will never be completed while I have a car thats in the shop for hmm maybe 3 to 4 days.... I think paying the money is just a little bit of a better idea than your dumb idea of buying a set of turbos and slapping them on a BMW.... This isnt a civic buddy but maybe you should get one.. They have lots of slap on kits so I hear...haha
Haha people just like to be cheap
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      03-24-2013, 11:46 AM   #51
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Why are you getting butt hurt over my opinion. Since you know my finances so well to know what I can or cant afford. Why dont you buy the kit or otherwise sell your car just as you said...

My point is this kit is not worth $7000 at its discounted rate. Not the turbos, not his labor, nor material adds up to $7000 or more. He himself said he can build Shiv's/FFTEC turbo kit for $2k, but since thats a single turbo add another turbo to it for $1k. Yet this guy is asking $7k at intro pricing... This guy works at $60/hour...

I'm debating on getting my hands on his exhaust manifold and taking it to a local shop or sending to china for reproducing. I could like him charge an arm and a leg and idiots like yourself buy into, cause if you drive a leased bmw that must mean you have $7k to wastefully spend.

You sound like an immature kid, not sure why I bothered to reply to such nonsense.
This guy is quite funny. Please, honestly PLEASE. Build a twin GTX-R turbo kit for an N54 that fits and works as advertised, and report back on what you spend. Yes I pointed I could most likely get the ST kit made for $2K, that was prob a bit low more like $3K as you can get that single turbo for decently cheap. We will all be waiting for your results, please make sure to include all receipts, so we know what you paid. Thanks
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      03-24-2013, 11:51 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra99 View Post
I think people are forgetting that Vargas is a business and not a charity.

Demand and supply.

If his price is in fact too high, he would eventually have to reduce to sell more. I think though, that his kit is well priced.

GL with your cheap China build.

We know Vargas, RB, Vishnu and BMS are all businesses not a charity.

Rather than basing pricing on the cost of his product, it seems like it based it off his competitors.

I'll mention it again, compare BMS products to their competitors. The competitors are usually charging several hundred more for a very similar product. BMS DP vs AR DP, Procede vs JB4, BMS Meth vs Procede Meth etc.
We all know BMS products fit, function just as well or even better than their competitors.

BMS is a business, but their prices are FAIR. They make profit, enough to be in business til this day but they do not charge insane prices for their products.


Is Vargas or FFTEC pricing good? It is, if compared to other kits for other platforms. Is the Vargas or FFTEC pricing good for what you actually get, no.

Development, material and labor wise these kits are not worth $7k+. I'll leave it at that.
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      03-24-2013, 12:10 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
This guy is quite funny. Please, honestly PLEASE. Build a twin GTX-R turbo kit for an N54 that fits and works as advertised, and report back on what you spend. Yes I pointed I could most likely get the ST kit made for $2K, that was prob a bit low more like $3K as you can get that single turbo for decently cheap. We will all be waiting for your results, please make sure to include all receipts, so we know what you paid. Thanks
i understand where is your $7000 for the GTX kit coming from, as you said need to take time and money to fits and works but your $7k kit come with stock like exhaust manifolds, no IC and tune right?
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      03-24-2013, 12:11 PM   #54
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The problem is that the n54 has become so available and aftermarket bolt on parts are so readily available and cheap that anyone or his brother can afford one. So when a kit come out, whether it be Vargas/fftec or one you get built custom to your wants, the real life price hurts everyone's feelings who were used to getting dps for 200$ lol. I've said it before and said it again, go build a quality single or twin turbo kit yourself (and I mean quality) have it be functional and then see what you spend
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      03-24-2013, 12:14 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
This guy is quite funny. Please, honestly PLEASE. Build a twin GTX-R turbo kit for an N54 that fits and works as advertised, and report back on what you spend. Yes I pointed I could most likely get the ST kit made for $2K, that was prob a bit low more like $3K as you can get that single turbo for decently cheap. We will all be waiting for your results, please make sure to include all receipts, so we know what you paid. Thanks
I like this guy, he knows what a turbo kit should cost!

Are you the guy who has done GTX twins as well? Receipts is a great idea! Sharing is caring Showing them should shut up people who think GTX twins cannot be done and/or the material cost of pipes is several k$, LOL.

Last edited by jippii ensio; 03-24-2013 at 12:41 PM.
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      03-24-2013, 12:52 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by SfValley335i View Post
We know Vargas, RB, Vishnu and BMS are all businesses not a charity.

Rather than basing pricing on the cost of his product, it seems like it based it off his competitors.

I'll mention it again, compare BMS products to their competitors. The competitors are usually charging several hundred more for a very similar product. BMS DP vs AR DP, Procede vs JB4, BMS Meth vs Procede Meth etc.
We all know BMS products fit, function just as well or even better than their competitors.

BMS is a business, but their prices are FAIR. They make profit, enough to be in business til this day but they do not charge insane prices for their products.


Is Vargas or FFTEC pricing good? It is, if compared to other kits for other platforms. Is the Vargas or FFTEC pricing good for what you actually get, no.

Development, material and labor wise these kits are not worth $7k+. I'll leave it at that.

This kid is all over BMS's nuts.
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      03-24-2013, 01:09 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by SfValley335i View Post


Is Vargas or FFTEC pricing good? It is, if compared to other kits for other platforms. Is the Vargas or FFTEC pricing good for what you actually get, no.

Development, material and labor wise these kits are not worth $7k+. I'll leave it at that.
So instead of calling you an idiot or ignoring you I'll honestly try to educate you, because it is VERY obvious you don't understand how business work and the guys who run them don't want to waste the time explaining it to you.

You are only accounting for Labor and parts, and severely underestimating R&D. That is so simple. Here is a list of just SOME things you're leaving out:

Overhead- BMS products are low cost and low labor. They don't have to make a decent profit on each item in order to stay ahead of his monthly bills. When your product cost in the thousands instead of hundreds you need to make more on each in order to stay ahead of monthly because you naturally will be selling less units. This is VERY fundamental to small business models. This is why walmart CRUSHES local business. They sell SO many more units they can afford to have lower prices.

Product Life Cycle- The first time you make a product you have to put the cost of research and design into the cost of the product. Additionally if you want to STAY in business you need to keep making new products, AND as you so elegentally point out, they need to be cheaper. Meaning you can't tag R&D cost into the product as much. The solution to this is making sure the profit on your first big hot item is large enough that it can cover not ONLY your first set of R&D cost, but the R&D cost for their next item. [Hint: it sounds like VTT is already building a kit for the N55 and I'm sure FFTEC is doing other development as well]. What this does is front loads the cost of your first hot product that people will higher for, in order to charge less for your second and third set of products because you are already mitigating R&D cost.

Product Support- A business is obviously different in a one off build because they need to keep selling units. If you don't support your product through warranties, phone calls, shop time, ect then you won't keep selling units. A one-off build doesn't have to worry about this. They can build your kit and move on. You come back 4 weeks later with an oil line issue or something, be ready to fork over more money. That wasn't built into the cost of the one-off kit, it was on the company built kit.

I'll leave it at that. Three things you are already leaving out. Any small business class even if you take it online/community college and you could expand that to dozens of smaller nickle and dime things that would add up. Ex: Shipping, insurance on shop to keep those more expensive things, machine/equipment upkeep (the cost to make DP/intake/controller unit pales to a turbo kit), Product performance results ect

Hopefully that will make you think a bit more of what goes into a production off the shelf kit. If not oh well it was a nice refresher for me.


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      03-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SfValley335i
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Originally Posted by Zebra99 View Post
I think people are forgetting that Vargas is a business and not a charity.

Demand and supply.

If his price is in fact too high, he would eventually have to reduce to sell more. I think though, that his kit is well priced.

GL with your cheap China build.

We know Vargas, RB, Vishnu and BMS are all businesses not a charity.

Rather than basing pricing on the cost of his product, it seems like it based it off his competitors.

I'll mention it again, compare BMS products to their competitors. The competitors are usually charging several hundred more for a very similar product. BMS DP vs AR DP, Procede vs JB4, BMS Meth vs Procede Meth etc.
We all know BMS products fit, function just as well or even better than their competitors.

BMS is a business, but their prices are FAIR. They make profit, enough to be in business til this day but they do not charge insane prices for their products.


Is Vargas or FFTEC pricing good? It is, if compared to other kits for other platforms. Is the Vargas or FFTEC pricing good for what you actually get, no.

Development, material and labor wise these kits are not worth $7k+. I'll leave it at that.
Holy BMS fanboy you and stohlen should have a pow wow down there in Cali. Maybe you guys can collaborate on that twin kit you'll be building?
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      03-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #59
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You do realize Terry, the owner of Bms is buying one of the first production kits from vargas. Would it be nice if they had their own kit? Sure, but don't hold your breath.
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      03-24-2013, 04:57 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
This guy is quite funny. Please, honestly PLEASE. Build a twin GTX-R turbo kit for an N54 that fits and works as advertised, and report back on what you spend. Yes I pointed I could most likely get the ST kit made for $2K, that was prob a bit low more like $3K as you can get that single turbo for decently cheap. We will all be waiting for your results, please make sure to include all receipts, so we know what you paid. Thanks
I like this guy, he knows what a turbo kit should cost!

Are you the guy who has done GTX twins as well? Receipts is a great idea! Sharing is caring Showing them should shut up people who think GTX twins cannot be done and/or the material cost of pipes is several k$, LOL.
Vargas, did you sum up your GTX-build receipts yet? Too low to advertise? It is mainly the turbos, and if you have any connections, its not too much. Its still a bit more than the $2k that you could do the single for.

Last edited by jippii ensio; 03-24-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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      03-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #61
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If it were easy everyone would do it. Since making a turbo kit is so easy for some why aren't you making them for this platform and others and making millions??

As for the BRZ/FRS, those cars are made to be sold to kids not middle aged adults like most 335i owners. I'm willing to bet there are already more modified BRZ/FRS on the streets than 335i, and they just came out. Supply and demand.
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      03-24-2013, 06:58 PM   #62
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      03-24-2013, 10:20 PM   #63
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Vargas, can you list all the items include on your $7k GTX TT kits when you can please?
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      03-24-2013, 10:49 PM   #64
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Vargas, can you list all the items include on your $7k GTX TT kits when you can please?
From this thread.

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Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
As far as what will come with the kit.

2 turbochargers
2 manifolds
2 downpipes
charge piping from turbos to intercooler
intake piping
filters
all water and oil lines including adapters
custom water pipe
all hoses and clamps
hardware kit
All bracketed as needed
Heat shield with reflective gold tape
exhaust wrap (included) or if you prefer coating for an extra charge
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      03-25-2013, 12:22 AM   #65
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stock like manifolds right?
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      03-25-2013, 12:46 PM   #66
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I swear, ya'll are nattering on like a bunch of catty teenage girls...

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