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      03-26-2013, 08:58 PM   #23
Palmnuts
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Originally Posted by Hoops View Post
By the way, did i mention i drive a "dull as dishwater" Land Rover these days?? Oh how i miss those "silly" days!!!
How do you find the Disco compares with your RRS?

I really (REALLY) rated our RRS and think I'm going to put a deposit down on the new shape one. Having driven both, it's amazing how much softer (and more comfortable) the Disco is and really highlights the benefits/compromises of the RR Sports active roll control system (i.e. totally flat handling but a pretty knobbly ride).

I only got rid of it because I was fed up of our 'sensible' car averaging 23mpg The E350 does 38-40mpg, day in, day out....it's also very well built (best built car I've had yet by some margin....I only wish the SLS had 50% of the E's build quality!), its very refined and pretty quick. But it's also a bit nondescript compared to the Range hence, if the new RRS delivers the promised efficiency improvements, I think I'll be an early adopter of one later this year.
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      03-26-2013, 09:06 PM   #24
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Love the new RRS looks absolutely stunning - really does and i would love one next year for the mrs, depends how much they are.

Not sure of the full specs apart from the all aluminium shell shedding loads of weight. The emissions and economy on paper are a first for such a big car. We shall see how it performs with the new diesel engines and even the diesel-hybrid i think.
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      03-26-2013, 09:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Palmnuts View Post
.....if the new RRS delivers the promised efficiency improvements, I think I'll be an early adopter of one later this year.
And almost at the same time as I write this, the official pics are unveiled on PH.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=27382

So, taking this thread total OT, OH YES...I think I'm definitely putting my name down on one of these!
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      03-27-2013, 04:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmnuts View Post

Yes, I do. The M3's variable rack simply changes in feel too much as you apply lock and it doesn't provide as much information on what happening.
Not from my experiences both my M3 had excellent feedback/information. The later car more so and BMW had tweaked the M setting and weighted things up slightly more, with a nice progressive feel.

I stand by my experiences. the C63 felt like a road car with a big engine and the M3 a super sorted chassis with a nice engine. Now if the M3 had the C63 engine. we wouldn't be having this debate

Interesting timing on this subject as I'm reading Ben Collins's (stig) new book. In particular when they took an M3, C63 and RS4 to the Ascari race track in Spain. He personally though the C63 was "a pig". And preferred the M3 in just about every respect.
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      03-27-2013, 06:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmnuts View Post
How do you find the Disco compares with your RRS?
Ive always been a huge RRS fan - ive had a few now, my favourite was my TDV8 HST but i equally loved my 2010 RRS and the new 3.0 engine they put in it was sublime and i enjoyed that ownership too. However, i live in Chigwell and they are literally every other car - all bar one of my neighbours within a mile radius have one as their second or wives car - so if im honest i wanted to buck a trend and get out of the RR and went for the Disco - overall i think it ticks more boxes than both the RR and RRS and im my humble opinion i think it more than holds its own on the style/aesthetics stakes. But i do LOVE the new RR and two of my friends have one and they are a thing of absolute beauty. The new RRS is simply stunning and i can easily see myself in one of those once theyre a couple of years old and the VAT has been eaten up - i simply cant warrant buying brand spankers anymore, its hurts me far too much!! Funnily enough i was invited to a meeting recently with a certain very well known RR conversion company (up north, ay up me duck, bud bud ding ding why you kick my dog and call him fuck off - enough clues!!) and they had a "fleet" of the new RR's and i was literally drooling!!
But im also quite keen on the new E class and so is my wife - so i may well look at an E350 in a years time and then slam it on coil overs and Hooperise it!!
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      03-27-2013, 06:18 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
the C63 was "a pig". And preferred the M3 in just about every respect.
Come on Creep - dont sit on the fence fella - stop being so vague - do you prefer the C63 or the M3!!!????
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      03-27-2013, 06:43 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hoops View Post
Come on Creep - dont sit on the fence fella - stop being so vague - do you prefer the C63 or the M3!!!????
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      03-27-2013, 09:35 AM   #30
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very entertaining thread!

I'm in for the M3 with a C63 engine...
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      03-27-2013, 10:24 AM   #31
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I've driven and owned a few Mercs over the years and while they have mostly been competent, non have ever set my hair on fire, even a SL55 AMG which I drove for while, in fact most do a good job of sending you to sleep.

Yes they look decent enough and the engines are epic in terms of power BUT the way they deliver that power is a bit too lazy, the auto gearboxes too slow and they can struggle to get those huge numbers down. This is perfectly seen by the fact that an M3 with less power can still beat it round a track.

Rather than adding more and more power, what I think they should do is develop a proper diff to get the power down without wasting it (the M-diff is superb at this) and more importantly develop a proper DCT gearbox that actually changes gear quickly with a positive action. Yes I know the performance pack comes with a diff but tbh this should be on as standard, not an optional extra. This will do wonders and wake up the car\driver much more than constantly adding more hp ever year. AMG's don't need more power, they need better control of how they deploy it.

I'd have
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      03-27-2013, 10:52 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Guvernator View Post
I've driven and owned a few Mercs over the years and while they have mostly been competent, non have ever set my hair on fire, even a SL55 AMG which I drove for while, in fact most do a good job of sending you to sleep.

Yes they look decent enough and the engines are epic in terms of power BUT the way they deliver that power is a bit too lazy, the auto gearboxes too slow and they can struggle to get those huge numbers down. This is perfectly seen by the fact that an M3 with less power can still beat it round a track.

Rather than adding more and more power, what I think they should do is develop a proper diff to get the power down without wasting it (the M-diff is superb at this) and more importantly develop a proper DCT gearbox that actually changes gear quickly with a positive action. Yes I know the performance pack comes with a diff but tbh this should be on as standard, not an optional extra. This will do wonders and wake up the car\driver much more than constantly adding more hp ever year. AMG's don't need more power, they need better control of how they deploy it.

I'd have
Nicely put. Ben Collin's did say the diff on the Merc was overwhelmed.
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      03-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by zltm089 View Post
I'm in for the M3 with a C63 engine...
"I'd buy that for a dollar!!!" And if anyone can tell me which film that line comes from i will give you a dollar!!!
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      03-27-2013, 11:28 AM   #34
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"I'd buy that for a dollar!!!" And if anyone can tell me which film that line comes from i will give you a dollar!!!
Fist full of dollars

Robocop?
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      03-27-2013, 12:22 PM   #35
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Loved Robocop back in the day!

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      03-27-2013, 02:09 PM   #36
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Well done that man!!! I owe you a dollar!!
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      03-27-2013, 06:42 PM   #37
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@ Palmnutter...
Sorry for the big text quote thingy - made it smaller now.

Generally...

I'm just glad that those that used to hang around on here with 'normal (ish)' cars and have moved on to various epic motors still choose to share the experience.

Always an enjoyable read whilst the ladies of the house are watching some shit on the TV...
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      03-28-2013, 04:19 AM   #38
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@ Palmnutter...
Sorry for the big text quote thingy - made it smaller now.

Generally...

I'm just glad that those that used to hang around on here with 'normal (ish)' cars and have moved on to various epic motors still choose to share the experience.

Always an enjoyable read whilst the ladies of the house are watching some shit on the TV...
No need to apologise fella, was a good (and challenging ) find

This subject is always a good debate and I'm just adding some....erm, balance. I'm a massive M3 fan, but I do reckon the C63 gets an unfairly tough time....there's plenty that its better at, ultimate track handling isn't one if them. And sometimes it's the small things that can make it feel the nicer car...the superior driving position, the much better seats, it's more stable, refined and better built. But because its not as dynamic, it often gets a kicking. All my opinion, but hard to argue against the above points once you've lived with each for over a year. So, as I said, just adding some balance because they're both great, great cars.

Creepy....we'll have to agree to disagree on the steering quality And on Ben Collins, he's sort of on his own there as most journo's do rate the C63 (outside of its performance on track). In fact some (Chris Harris?) prefer it as an everyday proposition.

Guvernator....with respect, you can't judge any new AMG with anything from the pre-C63 era. The SL55 is comparatively a lazy barge but all the modern stuff I've driven (C, E, CLS, SLS) has been properly competitive. And AMG's unique MCT gearbox is awesome (an auto but with proper clutch plates in lieu of a traditional toque converter), its right up there with DCTs (in fact, mentioning Chris Harris again, I think he said it was his favourite 'box). A world away from the 5 speed slusher fitted to the SL55 or even the 7 speed 'proper' auto as fitted to pre-facelift C63's.


Anyway, that's my attempt at balance done...I'll pop off to a Merc forum now to tell them how good an M3 is
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      03-28-2013, 07:58 AM   #39
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Hmm I've tried a pre-facelift C63 and while I did enjoy it, the gearbox and power delivery were again a let down for me. Don't get me wrong they are excellent for normal day-to-day duties with a huge slug of torque from low in the range, an EPIC sound and very comfortable inside and this is an area where the C63 as with most Mercs, absolutely excels.

However a performance saloon should do more than just be good at pootling around, otherwise you'd be better off buying the diesel version instead. It needs to excite in equal measure to performing it's normal duties, that is what you pay the extra for after all and in this, the gearbox and the way the engine seems to run out of puff too early in the rev is a bit of a let down (peak torque arrives at 5000rpm). Yes it has big and brawny power but it never encourages you to ring it out to the redline like the M3's epic engine does when you want to have fun.

Admittedly I've not tried the new MCT gearbox but I must give it a go as yours isn't the first positive I've heard on it. It's the one area where AMG have been behind the curve for years, it may just add that much needed extra layer of excitement and control that a lot of past AMG's have lacked.
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