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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu ST and Vargas TT BBQ Shootout



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      03-29-2013, 10:26 PM   #1
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Vishnu ST and Vargas TT BBQ Shootout

Vishnu and Vargas, are you guys still down for this shootout? What are we trying to compare and compete? Another word, what are the goals for this shootout? Fastest turbo response - whp/wtq?

Really curious under what modifications and setup each car is going to have. Is this bbq shootout ... ahh I mean is this dyno shootout event open to public N54 spectators? Wanna join in too ...
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      03-29-2013, 10:37 PM   #2
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I would like to join this "said" shoot out when my cars 6466 is finished soon
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      03-29-2013, 11:16 PM   #3
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head to head race too? haha
Come on, dont just talk to talk but cant walk to walk..

+1 for Smi1gj's 6466 ST
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      03-29-2013, 11:21 PM   #4
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smi1gj's 6466 ST with BMS tuning Vs Vishnu ST with Procede tune Vs Vargas TT with COBB tuning!! Sounds GOOD...
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      03-29-2013, 11:59 PM   #5
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      03-30-2013, 12:50 AM   #6
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this cant turn out well, but would love to see this happen.
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      03-30-2013, 01:30 AM   #7
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someone will get knock the fu** out
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      03-30-2013, 02:04 AM   #8
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      03-30-2013, 09:51 AM   #9
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subscribed! Vishnu with his big single vs Vargas stage 3's OHHH MAN! granted VTT hasnt had years to tune and refine I still would like to put my money especialy in the 1/4 mile on the TT setup, on paper it is JUST BEAST. Keep in mind his numbers he initially put down were on cali 91 pump and NOTHING ELSE, no meth no good gas no e85, no nos... if he added some VP110 to the mix and some meth he will be making single turbo numbers or more without breaking a sweat at the dyno. THAT BEING SAID vishnu you rock also i just really like the TT setup
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      03-30-2013, 10:05 AM   #10
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Given that Vargas hasnt had YEARS to tune and refine it.... Shit, im still going with Vargas, its just so much better of a kit.
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      03-30-2013, 01:17 PM   #11
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im going with mine
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      03-30-2013, 01:51 PM   #12
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Stock Turbos >
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      03-30-2013, 03:26 PM   #13
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vargas turbo stg3 din't even test it on the 1/4 mile .... not ready yet for sure
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      03-30-2013, 06:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4doorbmwpower View Post
subscribed! Vishnu with his big single vs Vargas stage 3's OHHH MAN! granted VTT hasnt had years to tune and refine I still would like to put my money especialy in the 1/4 mile on the TT setup, on paper it is JUST BEAST. Keep in mind his numbers he initially put down were on cali 91 pump and NOTHING ELSE, no meth no good gas no e85, no nos... if he added some VP110 to the mix and some meth he will be making single turbo numbers or more without breaking a sweat at the dyno. THAT BEING SAID vishnu you rock also i just really like the TT setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric335 View Post
Given that Vargas hasnt had YEARS to tune and refine it.... Shit, im still going with Vargas, its just so much better of a kit.
With all due respect, all we've seen of the Vargas kit is a couple of glory dyno pulls where the DME was tuned to retard timing and ramp up boost to 25 psi. From what little I know, that is not a consistent and safe way to make power as your exhaust temps are going to go through the roof.

The Vargas kit is unproven at this stage. For the sake of fairness, at least treat it with the same tempered skepticism as you did Vishnu's kit while it was in the process of proving itself.

Stating kit A is better than B when there is no data to back it up is just asking for a thread lock . Lets wait and see what happens!
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      03-30-2013, 06:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
With all due respect, all we've seen of the Vargas kit is a couple of glory dyno pulls where the DME was tuned to retard timing and ramp up boost to 25 psi. From what little I know, that is not a consistent and safe way to make power as your exhaust temps are going to go through the roof.

The Vargas kit is unproven at this stage. For the sake of fairness, at least treat it with the same tempered skepticism as you did Vishnu's kit while it was in the process of proving itself.

Stating kit A is better than B when there is no data to back it up is just asking for a thread lock . Lets wait and see what happens!
What are you saying now dude, really? You think 25psi on GTX twins is going to produce unsafe EGT's? That's just stupid to be quite honest, and shows how little you know about any of this stuff. Those turbos can easily flow 30+ psi before EGT's are even a concern, especially on the bigger turbo options. Stop kidding yourself.

Vargas is unproven? They are in their tuning phase, of course. And you know what? They completely destroyed any pump gas N54 record with piss 91 their first time on the dyno. They are barely even tuned properly yet. Funny how an "unproven" turbo setup in its prototype stage can destroy that record, given the tuning time it had.

Nobody is saying what kit is better. Stop starting stuff. You annoy so many people with your little comments, it's not even funny anymore. Vargas is a hardware business, not a tuning business. We are waiting to see what happens, and so far it's looking good for Vargas. Considering all 3 major tunes can tune Stage 3 kits, we will see who can tune the best.
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      03-30-2013, 07:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
What are you saying now dude, really? You think 25psi on GTX twins is going to produce unsafe EGT's? That's just stupid to be quite honest, and shows how little you know about any of this stuff. Those turbos can easily flow 30+ psi before EGT's are even a concern, especially on the bigger turbo options. Stop kidding yourself.

Vargas is unproven? They are in their tuning phase, of course. And you know what? They completely destroyed any pump gas N54 record with piss 91 their first time on the dyno. They are barely even tuned properly yet. Funny how an "unproven" turbo setup in its prototype stage can destroy that record, given the tuning time it had.

Nobody is saying what kit is better. Stop starting stuff. You annoy so many people with your little comments, it's not even funny anymore. Vargas is a hardware business, not a tuning business. We are waiting to see what happens, and so far it's looking good for Vargas. Considering all 3 major tunes can tune Stage 3 kits, we will see who can tune the best.
This is why we can't have a friendly bbq. Y'all hate each other.
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      03-30-2013, 07:15 PM   #17
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This is why we can't have a friendly bbq. Y'all hate each other.
It just really ticks me off when this guy starts stuff all the time. I try to keep myself out of all the drama, but sometimes he just crosses the line.
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      03-30-2013, 07:35 PM   #18
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It just really ticks me off when this guy starts stuff all the time. I try to keep myself out of all the drama, but sometimes he just crosses the line.
That's why I just try to skim for facts.

Here are the facts:

1) Vargas has the world record 91oct dyno by about 40whp
2) Currently Stage 3 spool doesn't seem quite as quick as the best 62mm 6MT ST dynos. Notice I said currently
3) They are still in early stages of tuning, so many things may change
4) There is one Stage 3 car on the street
5) It will be months before more Stage 3 kits are produced
6) Before we upgrade fueling and some other problems are fixed, no one can push the N54 to the limits of the current turbo setups anyways
7) There is not much more performance data on the Vargas kit beyond this as it is new
8) People who post a lot are more likely trying to piss you off than learn about cars
9) There are lots of reasonable people who watch the forums, and all the posts you see are from the vocal majority.

Drive safe. Don't die. See you at a barbecue someday.
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      03-30-2013, 07:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainInsano View Post
That's why I just try to skim for facts.

Here are the facts:

1) Vargas has the world record 91oct dyno by about 40whp
2) Currently Stage 3 spool doesn't seem quite as quick as the best 62mm 6MT ST dynos. Notice I said currently
3) They are still in early stages of tuning, so many things may change
4) There is one Stage 3 car on the street
5) It will be months before more Stage 3 kits are produced
6) Before we upgrade fueling and some other problems are fixed, no one can push the N54 to the limits of the current turbo setups anyways
7) There is not much more performance data on the Vargas kit beyond this as it is new
8) People who post a lot are more likely trying to piss you off than learn about cars
9) There are lots of reasonable people who watch the forums, and all the posts you see are from the vocal majority.

Drive safe. Don't die. See you at a barbecue someday.
Very well put.
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      03-30-2013, 08:01 PM   #20
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During in-house testing, we have made well over 500whp on a mustang dyno with our single turbo cars on 91oct (no methanol). That's nearly 600whp on a Dynojet. The problem with running that much boost (24+psi) with such little ignition advance (2-6deg) is that exhaust gas temps get too hot for sustained racing conditions. Dyno glory runs are fine but we don't live on a dyno. These are some of the things you learn during the long term testing process because customers will put their car through things which are much more stressful than anything you can replicate on the dyno when trying to make glory numbers (hot lapping for instance). But if you are just after numbers to claim some sort of pump gas record, that's fine. But any experience tuner knows that you are just tuning poorly to impressed the uninformed masses. There is a reason why some beginner tuners go through turbos like rolls of toiler paper while others, with more experience (esp in motorsport) don't.

That said, we are always down for some friendly competition. But let's give the other team so more time to go through the testing/tuning phase. Because a lot will be learned in the process. And it will benefit everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric335 View Post
Given that Vargas hasnt had YEARS to tune and refine it.... Shit, im still going with Vargas, its just so much better of a kit.
Really? Why? Not trying to be argumentative because everyone is entitled to his opinion. But would like to hear your reasoning.

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 03-30-2013 at 08:13 PM.
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      03-30-2013, 08:15 PM   #21
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Envuks wuz here.


This sounds like the kind of BBQ that takes place in Compton and ends with shots fired...
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      03-30-2013, 08:18 PM   #22
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