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      08-26-2014, 11:47 PM   #1
asher_iii
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Issue with Upper Radiator Hose

Hello All,

Iím having an issue with the upper radiator hose.
I was in the process of finishing up an oil filter gasket replacement and while attempting to re-connect the upper radiator hose out came a plastic ring and an o-ring. [pictured]

I understand the o-ring is a profile gasket (and should a tight fit), however when trying to get everything back together the o-ring will not seat correctly, not even close. It just pinches and turns sideways. I looked at the diagrams and it doesnít even show the plastic ring and the o-ring.

My biggest concern is that the plastic ring was never suppose to come out; did something break which allowed the plastic ring to slide out? Not sure if I need a new o-ring or a whole new hose.

Thank you in advance for the input.
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      08-26-2014, 11:48 PM   #2
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      08-27-2014, 05:04 AM   #3
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I hope this helps. I did all the hoses early this year. I did a DIY for it. I took a pic of the upper rad hose, but IIRC it is of the radiator side connector, not the OFH side, but maybe it will help. I don't remember a plastic ring on that connector (OFH-side) either.
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      08-27-2014, 07:23 PM   #4
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Isn't that a 'quick connect' connection with a c clip on the upper radiator hose to the filter housing? Im not sure it's supposed to come apart into 2 pieces like that....go to dealer and look at a new part to find out
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      08-27-2014, 11:59 PM   #5
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Thanks Efthreeoh & Jklad.
Long story short I’m going to need a new o-ring. The one I have lost its elasticity and is way overstretched. I was able to get the plastic ring back in and seated correctly; the photo was a big help. I have not found a BMW part number for just the o-ring so I could get the official size; I’m just going to take a few measurements and head out to the hardware store. Worst case I’ll order a few different sizes from mcmaster.com
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      08-28-2014, 06:30 AM   #6
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Just to flame BMW here...

Seriously WTF happened to a simple cut hose end and a f'ing hose clamp? It's why BMWs are over priced, because they are over engineered.

Good luck on finding a replacement 0-ring. A new hose is about $40.
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      08-28-2014, 02:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Just to flame BMW here...

Seriously WTF happened to a simple cut hose end and a f'ing hose clamp? It's why BMWs are over priced, because they are over engineered.

Good luck on finding a replacement 0-ring. A new hose is about $40.
A lot of this stuff is to make assembly at the factory faster and more consistent, a worker tightening up a hose clamp takes a lot of time and leaves room for error (how tight should it be?) vs just pressing and clicking into place.

I'm not saying I agree with any of it, but as the company grows they want to make more cars in the shortest amount of time possible, get used to it, your going to be seeing a lot more.

Does it make the guys job 100k miles down the road harder? You bet.

To the OP, next time you don't really need to remove that hose, I was able to replace mine without removing it, if it was a simple hose clamp I would have pulled it off, I saw the connection and decided it was best left alone.
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      08-28-2014, 07:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by index1489 View Post
A lot of this stuff is to make assembly at the factory faster and more consistent, a worker tightening up a hose clamp takes a lot of time and leaves room for error (how tight should it be?) vs just pressing and clicking into place.

I'm not saying I agree with any of it, but as the company grows they want to make more cars in the shortest amount of time possible, get used to it, your going to be seeing a lot more.

Does it make the guys job 100k miles down the road harder? You bet.

To the OP, next time you don't really need to remove that hose, I was able to replace mine without removing it, if it was a simple hose clamp I would have pulled it off, I saw the connection and decided it was best left alone.
It's a nice idea that the connections are designed for a quick connect at the factory to save a few seconds of assembly time, however if the proper tooling is used such as a preset torque air ratchet to run down the clamp (a clamp pre-set to size at the hose manufacturer and tied to the hose (so there is no additional step to assemble the clamp onto the hose, also mitigates time loss on the assembly line. The cost to design and manufacture such a complex hose connection far out weighs the cost of a few more seconds (maybe) on the assembly line. The plastic connectors are already attached to the hose end with a permanent band clamp during the manufacture of the hose anyway, so really there is no step saved at assembly, it's just moved to the supplier of the hose. It is very costly to develop, monitor, and maintain the tooling necessary to make such high-tolerance plastic parts. At the part quantities BMW uses for such assemblies I doubt the cost of the manufacture of the hose is offset by a few seconds saved of assembly time. Further there are millions of cars that use a simple spring band clamp on a open hose end that takes no time to properly set, nor need any specialized tooling other than band-clamp pliers. I've had several cars with such type band clamps and never did any of them leak.
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      08-29-2014, 12:48 AM   #9
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Having worked in semiconductor manufacturing for the last five years I couldn't agree with you more Efthreeoh.
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      08-29-2014, 12:54 AM   #10
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i did this gasket a couple months ago and the plastic ring came out as well. the oring fitted back in fine BUT...after about 500 miles that hose popped open and bmw does not sell that oring separately. The oring stretched out to a point where it cannot fit into the housing. i knew i could prolly match an oring that size at some hardware store but i did not want to just in case it pops again on the freeway so i paid 65 for a new upper hose from the dealer.

its been good for the last 2k miles.
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      08-29-2014, 01:08 AM   #11
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So I jerry rigged an o-ring (until I can get a proper replacement) only to discover the back side of the hose is failing at the permanent band clamp (probably from all of the jostling of getting it in and out). Looks like I'm going to be ordering a new hose tomorrow. I checked my local dealer and they want $110 out the door... I've had nothing but positive experiences from Turner Motorsprot, so looks like I'm going to load up the cart with a few items tomorrow... Now what goes well with a new clutch, BMW performance short shift, CVD delete, and a JB racing flywheel...?
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      08-29-2014, 03:39 AM   #12
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Order from http://www.rmeuropean.com/ you will have the hose within 24 hours of ordering they ship via Overnight west coast regional shipper with the cheapest/free option, no tax to CA and the pricing is way better then turner.

They carry Genuine BMW parts, whatever they don't they usually will have the OEM supplier for a lot less, like my transmission pan I ordered ZF = $100 Genuine BMW $300, same part.
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      08-29-2014, 06:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asher_iii View Post
So I jerry rigged an o-ring (until I can get a proper replacement) only to discover the back side of the hose is failing at the permanent band clamp (probably from all of the jostling of getting it in and out). Looks like I'm going to be ordering a new hose tomorrow. I checked my local dealer and they want $110 out the door... I've had nothing but positive experiences from Turner Motorsprot, so looks like I'm going to load up the cart with a few items tomorrow... Now what goes well with a new clutch, BMW performance short shift, CVD delete, and a JB racing flywheel...?
I just replaced mine in January and bought that hose for $48.78 from GetBMWparts.com. It is hose P/N 17127531579. $110 is way over priced. Retail for the hose in January was $61.

As far as your other parts, CDV delete is nothing but removing the valve and attaching the supply line directly to the slave cylinder; there's no need to use a hollowed-out valve body (unless there is a warranty on the car). Short shift is nice to have. Can't comment on the flywheel, but it's probably better than the dual-mass OE unit. If you do the CDV delete make sure you get a power bleeder from Motive. If you get air in the clutch line, it is almost impossible to bleed without a pressure bleeder (trust me on this!).

Good luck with the repairs.
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      08-29-2014, 07:07 AM   #14
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Having worked in semiconductor manufacturing for the last five years I couldn't agree with you more Efthreeoh.
My degree is in industrial manufacturing. Sorry for the spew. Hose clamps... inexpensive, reliable, easy to use. Sometimes the mouse trap is good enough.

I really think BMW does the over engineering just to keep the aftermarket houses from making parts so the part supply chain keeps within the BMW universe of OE suppliers. BMW must get a payback on use of the IP. The customer gets screwed in the process. $60 radiator hose, what a joke.
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      08-29-2014, 11:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
My degree is in industrial manufacturing. Sorry for the spew. Hose clamps... inexpensive, reliable, easy to use. Sometimes the mouse trap is good enough.

I really think BMW does the over engineering just to keep the aftermarket houses from making parts so the part supply chain keeps within the BMW universe of OE suppliers. BMW must get a payback on use of the IP. The customer gets screwed in the process. $60 radiator hose, what a joke.
Especially one that size, I replaced a hose 5 times longer on a F150 and it was 17 bucks, had 200k on it, perfect shape, replaced as part of a retrofit.
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      08-29-2014, 11:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
As far as your other parts, CDV delete is nothing but removing the valve and attaching the supply line directly to the slave cylinder; there's no need to use a hollowed-out valve body (unless there is a warranty on the car). Short shift is nice to have. Can't comment on the flywheel, but it's probably better than the dual-mass OE unit. If you do the CDV delete make sure you get a power bleeder from Motive. If you get air in the clutch line, it is almost impossible to bleed without a pressure bleeder (trust me on this!).

Good luck with the repairs.
Yea, a pressure bleeder would have been nice... All the mods I listed are already completed. If anyone needs to replace the dual mass (as I needed to) then I recommend the JB Racing unit. Drivability is quite a bit different, but not necessarily in a bad way. I've got a bit of gear rash (even with using Royal Purple), but overall I'm very pleased with the results.
Now to sneak some more upgrades by the wife...
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      09-01-2014, 10:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
My degree is in industrial manufacturing. Sorry for the spew. Hose clamps... inexpensive, reliable, easy to use. Sometimes the mouse trap is good enough.

I really think BMW does the over engineering just to keep the aftermarket houses from making parts so the part supply chain keeps within the BMW universe of OE suppliers. BMW must get a payback on use of the IP. The customer gets screwed in the process. $60 radiator hose, what a joke.
You probably hit it on the head here. Sometimes the optimizers go crazy and develop a fix for a non-problem. Since a person in the factory is making this attachment anyway, a hose clamp could have been used. My bet is that the part/assembly cost difference is minor, but someone made the argument that the clip-on arrangement is an error-free and consistently repeatable process. This design probably seeks to eliminate (BMW) warranty problems with the unintended added cost of long-term maintainance headaches for the owners.
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      09-01-2014, 11:45 AM   #18
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You probably hit it on the head here. Sometimes the optimizers go crazy and develop a fix for a non-problem. Since a person in the factory is making this attachment anyway, a hose clamp could have been used. My bet is that the part/assembly cost difference is minor, but someone made the argument that the clip-on arrangement is an error-free and consistently repeatable process. This design probably seeks to eliminate (BMW) warranty problems with the unintended added cost of long-term maintainance headaches for the owners.
Well, if you've not actually installed one of these type connectors it is not as easy as you think to ascertain if you've made a good, solid, seal-proof connection. It is not fool proof. The clip will slide into place without the connector being fully seated. Yeah, maybe on the assembly line the installer gets used to the feel of a solid connection, but a open hose-end on a hose bib with a clamp gives a easy visual inspection that the fit is correct. I think it is just way over engineered and unnecessary. Just my pet peeve.
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