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      04-26-2017, 02:49 PM   #1
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vrsf 5 or 7 for a pure stage 2 turbo ?

hey guys i have a 335i x drive FBO on meth 90/10 but im still on stock intercooler


im buying a pure stage 2 really soon and id like to know if u should get a 5" intercooler or the 7" from vrsf


i go to the dragstrip a couple times during the summer and i do a few pulls a day.

i was thinking since i spray meth during my pulls i would only need a 5"
but i heard the pure stage 2 needs more cooling ( not sure )

please be honest the ones who have the 7 do you notice a bit more lag ?

id like your opinions and thoughts about this

they are both at same price so its purely for choosing the best one for my needs
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      04-26-2017, 02:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bours View Post
hey guys i have a 335i x drive FBO on meth 90/10 but im still on stock intercooler


im buying a pure stage 2 really soon and id like to know if u should get a 5" intercooler or the 7" from vrsf


i go to the dragstrip a couple times during the summer and i do a few pulls a day.

i was thinking since i spray meth during my pulls i would only need a 5"
but i heard the pure stage 2 needs more cooling ( not sure )

please be honest the ones who have the 7 do you notice a bit more lag ?

id like your opinions and thoughts about this

they are both at same price so its purely for choosing the best one for my needs
Spraying meth, what kind of rise in IAT's do you see now?
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      04-26-2017, 02:56 PM   #3
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Personally, I think if you don't track the car the 5" will be fine. But I am pretty new on this platform so what do I know.

I am pretty sure they are both the same price if you buy them new, so if you don't mind trimming pieces off you car might as well go for the 7", but solely for that reason I am installing a 5". I am also probably not going PS2.
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      04-26-2017, 03:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Spraying meth, what kind of rise in IAT's do you see now?
about 5 degrees when doing a few puils back to back its very negligible bout its still cold here ( montreal canada 7 celsius ) so i bet when summer comes it will rise more

i went to the drag strip and did 25 runs all on 20 psi meth

i started at 10iat and after my 25 runs ( almost back to back track was empty )

my iat were at 140 and i left cause heat soaked

so imo meth is doing a hell of a job to lower iat but well see with the real test ( summer )
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      04-26-2017, 03:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bours View Post
about 5 degrees when doing a few puils back to back its very negligible bout its still cold here ( montreal canada 7 celsius ) so i bet when summer comes it will rise more

i went to the drag strip and did 25 runs all on 20 psi meth

i started at 10iat and after my 25 runs ( almost back to back track was empty )

my iat were at 140 and i left cause heat soaked

so imo meth is doing a hell of a job to lower iat but well see with the real test ( summer )
Keep in mind IATS will increase quickly when you're not spraying meth. The evaporative cooling of methanol will drive IATS down below ambient. WedgePerformance is running a PS2 and methanol on a stock intercooler to great effect. Do you have any datalogs of these pulls?
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      04-26-2017, 04:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
Our 7" unit actually has marginally more pressure drop than the OEM core. The 5" stepped offers less pressure drop than the OEM. Both designs have been proven to support anywhere from 500whp to 860whp and they're certainly more than a "hunk of metal".

The 7" will out cool the 5" by 7-10 degrees on a 2-4 gear pull and it's essentially the better choice if you're interested in doing multiple gear pulls, racing or if you're planning on upgrading your stock turbos in the future. If you're looking for good IAT suppression with an easier install, the 5" stepped is the better choice.
Pulled from another thread.
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      04-26-2017, 05:28 PM   #7
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With upgraded turbo's I'd recommend the 7" but I'd further recommend going with the 7" HD Core, it's a much more efficient core.
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      04-26-2017, 06:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
With upgraded turbo's I'd recommend the 7" but I'd further recommend going with the 7" HD Core, it's a much more efficient core.
Whats the difference between 7 and 7 hd core ? Also if i spray meth isnt the 5 more than enough and lighter ?
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      04-26-2017, 09:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahn View Post
Keep in mind IATS will increase quickly when you're not spraying meth. The evaporative cooling of methanol will drive IATS down below ambient. WedgePerformance is running a PS2 and methanol on a stock intercooler to great effect. Do you have any datalogs of these pulls?
I have the Wagner EVO step. Thing is perfect fit, no cutting, and uses stock c-clip connections. installed in less than 30 minutes. IAT actually drop now when I get into it with meth turned off. Highly recommended.
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      04-26-2017, 10:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WedgePerformance View Post
I have the Wagner EVO step. Thing is perfect fit, no cutting, and uses stock c-clip connections. installed in less than 30 minutes. IAT actually drop now when I get into it with meth turned off. Highly recommended.
Oh nice. When did you install that? Last I knew you were still on the stock ic with meth.
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      04-27-2017, 10:18 AM   #11
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Im FBO with VRSF 7"HD http://www.datazap.me/u/3dirty5/vrsf...=0&data=4-6-13

notice how the temps drop as i get on it . Theres around a .5-.75 psi drop in pressure when i switched from stock to vrsf
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      04-27-2017, 10:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bours View Post
Whats the difference between 7 and 7 hd core ? Also if i spray meth isnt the 5 more than enough and lighter ?
HD is a higher quality, more efficient, denser core- AKA better IAT suppression and performance.
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      04-27-2017, 12:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihazvtak View Post
Im FBO with VRSF 7"HD http://www.datazap.me/u/3dirty5/vrsf...=0&data=4-6-13

notice how the temps drop as i get on it . Theres around a .5-.75 psi drop in pressure when i switched from stock to vrsf
if there is a pressure drop of almost 1 psi

1 psi = 10whp

so lets say you loose 8 whp but youll get same power on each pull since iat is lower

am i right or no ?
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      04-27-2017, 04:13 PM   #14
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Amazing how the vendors have something completely different to say than the people posting data.
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      04-27-2017, 05:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Amazing how the vendors have something completely different to say than the people posting data.

Can you explain ? The data says what exactly or pm me about it
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      04-28-2017, 01:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bours View Post
Can you explain ? The data says what exactly or pm me about it
Ken posted a log of his car with an ETS 5" and meth reducing IAT's across a pull...

Three posts below that and there is a vendor suggesting a 7" super duper HD ultra (Chinese crap) VRSF intercooler is the only way to go...

Spraying water/meth changes everything. 7in HD might be "more efficient" because of its denser core, but the drawback of that is the additional weight penalty and the restriction to airflow. Everything with intercoolers is a tradeoff so more efficient does not always equate out to better performance. You'll see lower velocity airflow, a greater pressure drop across the intercooler, and greater spool time since you'll have to fill a larger volume. All of which is unnecessary seeing as how Meth + 5" is already more than enough to keep IAT's stable.

No intercooler is going to help you after 25 pulls back to back. Your engine bay was probably north of 300f. Seems like your current setup is already decent if you only see a 5f increase across a 4th gear pull.
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Last edited by bbnks2; 04-28-2017 at 01:26 PM.
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      04-28-2017, 01:26 PM   #17
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I'm with bbnks2. Methanol will instantly drop IAT with or without an intercooler due to evaporative cooling. Of course when you are sitting in the staging lanes without methanol being injected your IAT will shoot up over 100F easily, but the moment your methanol triggers you have instantly dropping IAT.
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      04-28-2017, 02:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Ken posted a log of his car with an ETS 5" and meth reducing IAT's across a pull...

Three posts below that and there is a vendor suggesting a 7" super duper HD ultra (Chinese crap) VRSF intercooler is the only way to go...

Spraying water/meth changes everything. 7in HD might be "more efficient" because of its denser core, but the drawback of that is the additional weight penalty and the restriction to airflow. Everything with intercoolers is a tradeoff so more efficient does not always equate out to better performance. You'll see lower velocity airflow, a greater pressure drop across the intercooler, and greater spool time since you'll have to fill a larger volume. All of which is unnecessary seeing as how Meth + 5" is already more than enough to keep IAT's stable.

No intercooler is going to help you after 25 pulls back to back. Your engine bay was probably north of 300f. Seems like your current setup is already decent if you only see a 5f increase across a 4th gear pull.
im having a great deal on a er 6" intercooler what are your thoughts on this one ? also thx for the great info
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      04-29-2017, 09:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bours View Post
if there is a pressure drop of almost 1 psi

1 psi = 10whp

so lets say you loose 8 whp but youll get same power on each pull since iat is lower

am i right or no ?
You need to factor in temp drop compared to a stock, or smaller intercooler.

I'd accept a 1psi drop for a temp reduction of 50*.

Edit: Additionally, boost is a measure of resistance, not flow. You might have more flow with less boost, if you lesson a restriction.

Last edited by AirbusPilot; 04-29-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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      04-29-2017, 10:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusPilot View Post
You need to factor in temp drop compared to a stock, or smaller intercooler.

I'd accept a 1psi drop for a temp reduction of 50*.

Edit: Additionally, boost is a measure of resistance, not flow. You might have more flow with less boost, if you lesson a restriction.
oh thx for the explanation ! so a bigger intercooler will get more flow ? acting like a bigger turbo at same psi lets say to have to a small comparaison ! CFM ?
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      04-30-2017, 07:12 AM   #21
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Based on the quote from the manufacturer, it's either a wash (less psi, but 7-10 degrees cooler) or you lose a little whp going with the 7", over the 5" stepped. If you are using a stock turbo, on your daily driver.

Once you change the profile to a larger turbo and tracking the car, the 7" becomes the answer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bours View Post
oh thx for the explanation ! so a bigger intercooler will get more flow ? acting like a bigger turbo at same psi lets say to have to a small comparaison ! CFM ?


Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
Our 7" unit actually has marginally more pressure drop than the OEM core. The 5" stepped offers less pressure drop than the OEM. Both designs have been proven to support anywhere from 500whp to 860whp and they're certainly more than a "hunk of metal".

The 7" will out cool the 5" by 7-10 degrees on a 2-4 gear pull and it's essentially the better choice if you're interested in doing multiple gear pulls, racing or if you're planning on upgrading your stock turbos in the future. If you're looking for good IAT suppression with an easier install, the 5" stepped is the better choice.
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      04-30-2017, 07:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bours View Post
oh thx for the explanation ! so a bigger intercooler will get more flow ? acting like a bigger turbo at same psi lets say to have to a small comparaison ! CFM ?
Assuming it's more efficient, yes.

For every 10*F drop in air temp, you can subtract 600' ft from the density altitude. It'll make the engine think it's 600' lower (more dense) in air quality.

Last edited by AirbusPilot; 04-30-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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