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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wheels and Tires Forum Sponsored by The Tire Rack > Michelin PSS on 230's 1 size up review



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      03-30-2013, 07:27 PM   #1
DaFish
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Michelin PSS on 230's 1 size up review

Coming from my snows - RFTs, 225 17" square, and completely bald.... so take this in to account.

Today was about 9 degress celisus, sunny and dry.

I just got my PSS's on my 230s. 235/35/19 and 265/30/19 rear.

I used to have (in my sig) the Bridgstone Pole Positions same +1 size.

1) The PSS look fatter for sure, they fill the wheel wells better. I'll post some pics. They look really nice.

2) The ride - Sweet Mother of God - what a difference. The ride is smooth, quiet, track a beautiful line - no pulling, no drifting, no tramlining that I have experienced so far. (I had a 4 wheel alignment in Nov, and will get another one done now) - I am DELIGHTED with the ride comfort.

3) Steering response. I came from the RFTs, so the steering response is a bit softer. There is a BIT of softness on initial turn. If you wiggle the wheel back and forth there is a slight delay as the tires flex and bite if you know what I mean. I am not sure if the 225/255 size would do that, but I would imagine so. I can't remember if this was looser than the Pole positions (which were also bald). I'll have to put some more miles on to give a better update, but for now - the steering response isn't as tight as I was expecting.

4) Grip. The rear grip is fantastic. WAY better, I am running full meth with 19PSI and in second gear, fully hooked up and pulled really strong. LOVED IT !

5) Handling/cornering. I need more seat time. I did take a few on ramps, nailed it mid corner and it just stuck and followed the line I wanted. I think it will be very predictable.

So far, I am happy - but I got them put on this morning. My morning commute on Monday will be a flippin dream ! The tires run so quiet. They seem to absorb all the bumps and creases and just smooths them out. Really nice...

I'll update in a few days.

All in, installed in Ontario for $1550
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Last edited by DaFish; 03-30-2013 at 07:33 PM.
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      03-31-2013, 05:35 AM   #2
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Just ordered a set on Mich PSS. They will arive end of this month. With my company discount I got them $800.00 before install!

I am glad to hear them ride quiet and smooth.
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      03-31-2013, 01:48 PM   #3
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nice review! i heard about the feeling being not as responsive as with rft but im going to be installing the m3 control arms within the next couple weeks to counter that.
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      03-31-2013, 02:14 PM   #4
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nice review! i heard about the feeling being not as responsive as with rft but im going to be installing the m3 control arms within the next couple weeks to counter that.
If the difference is between the 2 types of tires, what is a couple of different control arms going to do
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      03-31-2013, 02:47 PM   #5
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nice review! i heard about the feeling being not as responsive as with rft but im going to be installing the m3 control arms within the next couple weeks to counter that.
Yes for sure, that adds a bit more neg camber. I have Dinan camber plates on top of that for net -2.2 of front camber and that helps immensely.

I did non-RFTs before I did my M3 and Dinan plates and the non-rfts rolled over on hard cornering. You need the M3 arms IMO to go to non rfts.
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      03-31-2013, 03:28 PM   #6
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If the difference is between the 2 types of tires, what is a couple of different control arms going to do
The control arms make a lot of difference. The bushings are stiffer, so under hard cornering, the suspension doesn't deflect as much and change the geometry. The M3 wishbones add more neg camber so the tire doesn't roll on the side wall or shoulder as much.
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      03-31-2013, 03:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post

3) Steering response. I came from the RFTs, so the steering response is a bit softer. There is a BIT of softness on initial turn. If you wiggle the wheel back and forth there is a slight delay as the tires flex and bite if you know what I mean. I am not sure if the 225/255 size would do that, but I would imagine so. I can't remember if this was looser than the Pole positions (which were also bald). I'll have to put some more miles on to give a better update, but for now - the steering response isn't as tight as I was expecting.
I can say the same when I switched from RFT to Conti DW Extreme.
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      03-31-2013, 04:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
Yes for sure, that adds a bit more neg camber. I have Dinan camber plates on top of that for net -2.2 of front camber and that helps immensely.

I did non-RFTs before I did my M3 and Dinan plates and the non-rfts rolled over on hard cornering. You need the M3 arms IMO to go to non rfts.
where did you grab your dinan camber plates? how long did they take for you to get them?
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      03-31-2013, 07:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
The control arms make a lot of difference. The bushings are stiffer, so under hard cornering, the suspension doesn't deflect as much and change the geometry. The M3 wishbones add more neg camber so the tire doesn't roll on the side wall or shoulder as much.
So we can't just change the bushings to poly or something? we need the ewhole control arm?
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      03-31-2013, 08:29 PM   #10
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So we can't just change the bushings to poly or something? we need the ewhole control arm?
you can just change the bushings, many prefer to change the entire arm as i believe cost is not much more plus you get the additional camber up front.
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      04-01-2013, 10:04 AM   #11
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where did you grab your dinan camber plates? how long did they take for you to get them?
I got them like 3 years ago from the Oakville Dinan dealer in Ontario. It came with the stage 3 kit I bought.

Any camber plates are good, but the Dinan ones are quiet - but non adjustable.

NOTE: There is inside tire wear, you will have to realize that the handling increase will decrease tire life. For me, I want the handling and will pay for tires.
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      04-01-2013, 04:25 PM   #12
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Has this resolved your tracking issue that you've complained about in the past?
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      04-01-2013, 06:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish
Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishriv View Post
where did you grab your dinan camber plates? how long did they take for you to get them?
I got them like 3 years ago from the Oakville Dinan dealer in Ontario. It came with the stage 3 kit I bought.

Any camber plates are good, but the Dinan ones are quiet - but non adjustable.

NOTE: There is inside tire wear, you will have to realize that the handling increase will decrease tire life. For me, I want the handling and will pay for tires.
can you elaborate on the tire wear with the camber plates? what would you estimate the percent reduction in mileage?
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      04-01-2013, 06:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada Jeff View Post
Just ordered a set on Mich PSS. They will arive end of this month. With my company discount I got them $800.00 before install!

I am glad to hear them ride quiet and smooth.
800 bucks for a set of front or back or both ... if for all 4 tires front and back that price is a steal...
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      04-02-2013, 06:03 AM   #15
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800 bucks for a set of front or back or both ... if for all 4 tires front and back that price is a steal...
For all 4. Family company has over 200 pickup trucks on the road, plus hundreds of other heavy equipment. We buy ALOT of rubber in a year.
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      04-02-2013, 11:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Has this resolved your tracking issue that you've complained about in the past?
The tracking issue was more related to the rear toe arms, and a GOOD 4 wheel alignment done by a really good shop.

The tracking issue now is 95% solved. It still torque steers a bit, but nothing like it did. The rears were toed out so when I would nail it, the rear would fight for direction. It still isn't rock solid, but I acceptable. The alignment guy toed IN the rears a tiny bit (I believe) so when it squats, the camber and alignment was right.
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      04-02-2013, 11:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
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can you elaborate on the tire wear with the camber plates? what would you estimate the percent reduction in mileage?
I had the snows for 5 years - only on in the winter of course. The first 2 years was stock. The last 3 years with camber plates. i rotated the winters (all square) and when I took them off this time, the inside fronts were BALD. The rears were BALD from spinning.

The summers, I had non-rfts for 3 seasons too. The front Bridgestone pole positions I could have left on for another season they had life. they still were worn on the inside front though. I wanted to change to PSSs so I replaced them all.

There is no question the camber plates wear the fronts. I would estimate take 20% off the life of the tires on the fronts. BUT, I would also estimate that they wear as fast as the rears do now, because the inside rears were down to the threads and I only put my rears on last fall.... I got a season out of them.... which is related to my foot and brain.

Does this help?

PS: The traction on these new PSSs is really good.
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      04-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I had the snows for 5 years - only on in the winter of course. The first 2 years was stock. The last 3 years with camber plates. i rotated the winters (all square) and when I took them off this time, the inside fronts were BALD. The rears were BALD from spinning.

The summers, I had non-rfts for 3 seasons too. The front Bridgestone pole positions I could have left on for another season they had life. they still were worn on the inside front though. I wanted to change to PSSs so I replaced them all.

There is no question the camber plates wear the fronts. I would estimate take 20% off the life of the tires on the fronts. BUT, I would also estimate that they wear as fast as the rears do now, because the inside rears were down to the threads and I only put my rears on last fall.... I got a season out of them.... which is related to my foot and brain.

Does this help?

PS: The traction on these new PSSs is really good.
Sure it helps!
I know such things are hard to quantify. My rears look like they get around 3/4 of the wear the fronts get (without plates), so you explanation makes sense.
I'll be ordering tires next week (either PSS or DW) and have dinan plates waiting to be installed. If I install the plates, I'll probably set camber between -1.5 and -2.
Glad you like the PSS and appreciate the review.
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      04-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Sure it helps!
I know such things are hard to quantify. My rears look like they get around 3/4 of the wear the fronts get (without plates), so you explanation makes sense.
I'll be ordering tires next week (either PSS or DW) and have dinan plates waiting to be installed. If I install the plates, I'll probably set camber between -1.5 and -2.
Glad you like the PSS and appreciate the review.
No prob on the review, this forum gives me a lot.....

I have M3 Wishbones AND Camber plates for a total of -2.2 neg camber.

The Wishbones add -.5 I believe. If you don't do those, or ONLY do those and not the camber plates I think that would be ok too.

NOTE: The Dinan camber plates ADD .5 " of ride height on the front which sucks. The Wishbones don't add any height and you would get the same stock M3 camber wear that uses non rfts too.

You might not need the camber plates if you go with the sways, M3 arms and coil overs. That would give you a lot more control and balance from the god awful under steer in stock form.

Your call.
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      04-02-2013, 02:06 PM   #20
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Your review is in line with what most of our customers have said for the most part. Definitely a great tire overall!
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      04-06-2013, 12:04 PM   #21
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Ok, update time. I have had the tires on for a full week, commuting and driving. In Ontario, we have had a dusting of snow (nothing settling on the road thank God) - but it has been pretty cold, -4 to 5 deg C.

The tires have perform so great ! These are by far the best tires I have ever had on the car. The car has NEVER handled this well. I have some really nice on and off ramps I take daily where I can go as fast as I want. Even cold, I have immense grip.

Front end:
1) Steering response still not as tight as the RFTs, but expected. I don't even notice it now because the steering response is very, very good still. I would not want to trade this off for ride comfort ever.
2) Initial corner entry: Great bite, slight understeer if you over cook the entry. Even so, and considering the very cold pavement, I am going into the corners with more speed than I ever have. I have had to adjust to the "fear factor" meaning I need more balls to drive in faster. Wait till they get heated up !

3) Mid corner hold - fantastic. I can play with a bit of throttle, if too early, I get understeer of course, but after apex, I can dial in oversteer on the long sweepers. I have to keep power on so the LSD will keep power going to the outside wheel on exit - due to the mechanical wavetrac diff. Just HUGE fun ! The grip is fantastic, progression of losing grip as the meth kicks in and overwhelms the tires is very gradual and predictive. I am positive the Brigestone Pole Postions were not this good (and I thought those were good).

4) Ride comfort. I just can't say enough. They are quiet, smooth, no crashing over cracks, they actually absorb some of the bumps. Which leads me to mention the mid corner bump absorbsion too. If there is a bump mid corner, the car seems to handle this WAY better now. Keep in mind, I drive these corners a lot as they are around my house and going onto major highways so the speed is there.

I just can't say enough about these tires - I just love how my car drives with them. Just get them. The price is very competitive too.
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      04-07-2013, 09:01 PM   #22
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How do the slightly wider tires fit on the 230 wheels? Do they bulge out?
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