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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Stage 2+ aggressive hp



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      02-11-2013, 01:37 PM   #1
poloace
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Stage 2+ aggressive hp

So, I used to think that a stage 2+ w aggressive cobb put out 460 horse at the crank. Am I markedly mistaken? I've searched.... I've done the +15-20 % from the wheel hp calculation, but- I guess I was mistaken?
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      02-11-2013, 01:58 PM   #2
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That works out to roughly 380-390whp, what were you expecting from FBO?
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      02-11-2013, 01:59 PM   #3
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I was expecting 460. Bc, for some reason, that's the number that was being thrown around. So, it's still less power than an m3 at that point?
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      02-11-2013, 02:04 PM   #4
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Unless you are willing to take out your engine for an engine dyno, crank HP is meaningless.

HP is also not the end all be all in terms of power, racing, and performance,

The M3 has no torque, and barely any up top and that is where the 335i with full bolt ons really shines and is exceptionally faster then a stock M3.

Hell even a tune only 335i is faster then a stock M3.

A FBO N54 can make about 390-400WHP Pump gas and 400TQ (225 at redline). A stock M3 makes 350WHP and 250 TQ. (225 at redline).

Note: In the N54, shifting after 6500 will slow you down so this car actually is faster with proper shift points.

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 02-11-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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      02-11-2013, 02:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poloace View Post
I was expecting 460. Bc, for some reason, that's the number that was being thrown around. So, it's still less power than an m3 at that point?
nope. e9x m3(414hp) roughly puts down around 360 at wheels.
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      02-11-2013, 02:07 PM   #6
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But, stage2+ only puts out 332,at the wheels, no? So...the m3 is still more powerful at that stage.
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      02-11-2013, 02:08 PM   #7
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Like jeff said, bhp is an absolutely useless rating. A FBO N54 will destroy a stock M3(not exactly a fair race though, is it?)
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      02-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poloace View Post
But, stage2+ only puts out 332,at the wheels, no? So...the m3 is still more powerful at that stage.
Stage 2+ should put down anywhere from 360-380 on dynojet. I have seen plenty of tune only 335i's take stock M3's in the 1/4.
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      02-11-2013, 02:23 PM   #9
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One should expect 100-110 WHP Gain from stock to stage 2+ with the proper modifications.
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      02-11-2013, 02:25 PM   #10
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I'm confused. Thoroughly confused
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      02-11-2013, 02:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poloace View Post
I'm confused. Thoroughly confused
What's confusing?

M3, Stock 416 HP, Crank
335i, Stock 300 HP, Crank (under-rated from factory).

M3, Stock, 350WHP, wheel horse power, depends on dyno.
335i, stock, 270-280WHP, wheel horse power, depends on dyno.

Stage 2+ with proper modifications gains 100WHP up to 110WHP.

270 + 100 = 370WHP (low number)
280 + 110 = 400WHP ( High Number).

All depends on dyno, octane, modications, and conditions.

Regardless, any tune only car will beat a stock M3 on the highway. (cobb, jb4, procede, giac, ETC)
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      02-11-2013, 02:29 PM   #12
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Well let me ask you this: ARE you running Stg 2+? or are you asking hypothetical questions not relating to your actual car?
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      02-11-2013, 02:42 PM   #13
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I have the mods- just thought it was higher. Want to try some straight race fuel and see w the cobb race maps what will transpire
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      02-11-2013, 02:49 PM   #14
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Can you please list your mods? So we can get a better idea? Also, both you and I have AWD... so we are going to have a harder time making more power due to more TC loss...

Im at 66k miles, and I doubt i had over 330 with JB4 + DCI... but that was because of bad turbos, injectors, plugs, carbon buildup... now Im hoping to realize more and mod more... Maybe you might be experiencing the same thing? Or im completely inaccurate lol (probably)
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      02-11-2013, 02:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poloace View Post
I have the mods- just thought it was higher. Want to try some straight race fuel and see w the cobb race maps what will transpire
Those race maps are no joke, log log log if/when you use them. But yea, as others have pointed out, a FBO N54 is walking away from a stock M3. Useless comparison, but there you have it.
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      02-11-2013, 03:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poloace View Post
I was expecting 460. Bc, for some reason, that's the number that was being thrown around. So, it's still less power than an m3 at that point?
you are confused on crank VS wheel hp. 380-390 is about right for stage 2 plus AT THE WHEELS . you will smoke an m3 with that.
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      02-11-2013, 03:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Unless you are willing to take out your engine for an engine dyno, crank HP is meaningless.

HP is also not the end all be all in terms of power, racing, and performance,

The M3 has no torque, and barely any up top and that is where the 335i with full bolt ons really shines and is exceptionally faster then a stock M3.

Hell even a tune only 335i is faster then a stock M3.

A FBO N54 can make about 390-400WHP Pump gas and 400TQ (225 at redline). A stock M3 makes 350WHP and 250 TQ. (225 at redline).

Note: In the N54, shifting after 6500 will slow you down so this car actually is faster with proper shift points.
Peak numbers are meaningless without a proper comparison of the torque/hp curves. The total area under the torque curve is far more important than peak numbers.

A smooth and constant delivery of power throughout the entire powerband,a 8400 redline (1900 RPM more than your 6500 shift suggestion), and proper gearing (of which the M3 has shorter gears to put down more "work" per gear) more than makes up for the lack of torque. When you have a powerband that redlines at 8400, torque is not as important as HP.
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      02-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #18
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I don't know how much power I was putting down with Cobb when I had it, but I do know what I was trapping at the end of the 1/4 mile with it. With Stage 2+ aggressive on pump gas, I was trapping 116-117mph while on the E30 beta race map I was trapping 118-119mph. Stock M3's generally trap about 110-112mph on my track for reference. Keep in mind that I am in a 135i though, so it would be slower for an AWD Xi.
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      02-11-2013, 03:20 PM   #19
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Any ideas on how much rwhp/rwtq a stage 1 + FMIC 335i makes? I just added a fmic and changed the tune from stage 1 aggressive. My car doesn't feel quite as fast as I expected. I also have an ER Charge pipe, forged dv's and an AFE intake. I should also note I only use 93 octane gas. I would be shocked if my car was as quick as an M3 as is.
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      02-11-2013, 03:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Any ideas on how much rwhp/rwtq a stage 1 + FMIC 335i makes? I just added a fmic and changed the tune from stage 1 aggressive. My car doesn't feel quite as fast as I expected. I also have an ER Charge pipe, forged dv's and an AFE intake. I should also note I only use 93 octane gas. I would be shocked if my car was as quick as an M3 as is.
probably 350-360 whp.
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      02-11-2013, 03:22 PM   #21
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Why is it always the m3 the benchmark for our cars?
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      02-11-2013, 03:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Why is it always the m3 the benchmark for our cars?
Because its our big brother, and the little brother always has to out-do the eldest...
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