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      03-30-2014, 11:20 AM   #1
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HELP! Preparing for a roll racing event next weekend

Ok guys so i've officially ran out of ideas on what to do and need help. Next Saturday I have a rolling event and would like my car running perfect for that event. For as long as I can remember this issue has been present where my car won't hit target boost up top when i'm running it agressive. I dynoed the car last year and it hit 408/483 which was awesome but it wasn't even hitting target in the higher RPM's. I've done smoke tests and they have showed no leaks. After that someone said do all the vac lines so I did that and nope still same problem. After that I was told your wastegates or turbos are shot, so I had BMW replace those and problem is still present. As of right now I seriously don't know what to check yet.

A few have said do a pressurized boost leak test? I think that might be a good idea but I haven't been able to find a good shop near me that can do it on such short notice. I did Terry's wastegate solenoid test a few months ago and those were fine. Is it possible I would see vacuum at normal levels but still need to replace those? Today I also tested the two vacuum canisters and those were holding around 20-22 at idle. Below is the last log I took today which is 7 gallons of E85, Race backend flash, Map 7, Inline LPFP, and meth. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated because as I said I really want this thing perfect for this weekend.

Datazap: http://datazap.me/u/psmith95/e85-map-7-inline-lpfp

JB4 app:

CSV is also attached

Here are the logs from that dyno day if anyone is interested.

http://datazap.me/u/psmith95/mustang-dyno-map-7

http://datazap.me/u/psmith95/dyno-map-3
Attached Files
File Type: zip e85 new lpfp.zip (8.2 KB, 14 views)
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      03-30-2014, 11:36 AM   #2
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You are targeting pretty aggressive boost upstairs, how many miles on the turbos? It could just be they're not interesting in making 18 pounds at 5.5K. But that seems unlikely, and nothing else looks way out of whack. What are your advance targets?
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      03-30-2014, 11:47 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
You are targeting pretty aggressive boost upstairs, how many miles on the turbos? It could just be they're not interesting in making 18 pounds at 5.5K. But that seems unlikely, and nothing else looks way out of whack. What are your advance targets?
Just about to hit 1k miles on the turbos. I know it is pretty aggressive but with essentially brand new turbos they should still be able to hit that right? My advance for these runs were all the BMS race flash so not that aggressive. For the actual event i'm going to be running the E85 flash
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      03-30-2014, 12:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Just about to hit 1k miles on the turbos. I know it is pretty aggressive but with essentially brand new turbos they should still be able to hit that right? My advance for these runs were all the BMS race flash so not that aggressive. For the actual event i'm going to be running the E85 flash
If they're that new, they are certainly capable of better than what you are making, for sure.
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      03-30-2014, 02:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats
Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Just about to hit 1k miles on the turbos. I know it is pretty aggressive but with essentially brand new turbos they should still be able to hit that right? My advance for these runs were all the BMS race flash so not that aggressive. For the actual event i'm going to be running the E85 flash
If they're that new, they are certainly capable of better than what you are making, for sure.
Yea idk what it could be anymore
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      03-30-2014, 02:15 PM   #6
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You're running a Tial BOV, correct? Maybe it's leaking as you approach your higher boost levels. Check that the spring and everything is in spec, and also that it's bolted down to the charge pipe securely.

Do you have any capped meth bungs on the charge pipe that could be leaking as well?
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      03-30-2014, 02:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
You're running a Tial BOV, correct? Maybe it's leaking as you approach your higher boost levels. Check that the spring and everything is in spec, and also that it's bolted down to the charge pipe securely.

Do you have any capped meth bungs on the charge pipe that could be leaking as well?
None capped but one meth bung and it's in use. I started to think maybe it was the BOV too. What would be the best way to test if it's leaking at higher boost levels would I need to do a pressurized boost leak test for that? I'm going to head out quick to check that it's on tight
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      03-30-2014, 03:01 PM   #8
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I'd add a gallon or two of E85... Most of us around my area run 9-10 gallons of E85 on map 7
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      03-30-2014, 03:02 PM   #9
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I would be interested in hearing about testing the Tial BOV as well.
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      03-30-2014, 03:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335_MI6 View Post
I'd add a gallon or two of E85... Most of us around my area run 9-10 gallons of E85 on map 7
And your stock fuel pumps are ok with that? My fuel trims hate me for anything above 4-5 gallons of E85.
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      03-30-2014, 03:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 335_MI6 View Post
I'd add a gallon or two of E85... Most of us around my area run 9-10 gallons of E85 on map 7
I might up the amount for the event since i'll be running the E85 backend flash i'm just worried that my car might hate it. Hopefully i'll burn through what I have in their now and I can test 9 gallons and the e85 flash at the end of this week

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And your stock fuel pumps are ok with that? My fuel trims hate me for anything above 4-5 gallons of E85.
Do you have a inline or all stock? I have an inline and it looks fine with the 7. I might up it to 10 for the event since i'll be running the E85 backend flash which is more agressive
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      03-30-2014, 03:12 PM   #12
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I would imagine checking the BOV is similar to examining the stock Diverter Valves. Terry had a great write up for boost leak testing the DVs.

I've seen some discussion about the spring rates used in the Tial BOV, and your issue may not be hardware malfunction, but rather having a spring that is too light for the boost levels you're making.

Considering how consistent your boost leak is in regards to how often and at what pressure you start to under-boost, I'm pretty confident it is related to your BOV possibly opening slightly under high pressure. Good luck!
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      03-30-2014, 03:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Do you have a inline or all stock? I have an inline and it looks fine with the 7. I might up it to 10 for the event since i'll be running the E85 backend flash which is more agressive
Completely stock fuel system right now. Looking to do an inline at some point soon after I get the DP's in (which should be in the next 2-3 weeks). Still haven't figured out which one to go with.
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      03-30-2014, 03:17 PM   #14
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lol the "issues" you're complaining about won't make a difference in your standing next weekend...
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      03-30-2014, 03:43 PM   #15
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lol the "issues" you're complaining about won't make a difference in your standing next weekend...
Lol I don't see how not hitting target boost above 4k RPM would not affect the car's standing? If you mean where I am in the race in terms of other cars yea i'm one of the slower cars so of course it won't effect that. If you mean just how it runs overall and against similar cars to me I don't see how that is the case. As I said PWM shoots up and the car is almost 2 PSI under target in the higher RPM range, so how could that not effect how the car performs ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
I would imagine checking the BOV is similar to examining the stock Diverter Valves. Terry had a great write up for boost leak testing the DVs.

I've seen some discussion about the spring rates used in the Tial BOV, and your issue may not be hardware malfunction, but rather having a spring that is too light for the boost levels you're making.

Considering how consistent your boost leak is in regards to how often and at what pressure you start to under-boost, I'm pretty confident it is related to your BOV possibly opening slightly under high pressure. Good luck!
So just got back and maybe have some good news. First I checked the vacuum line and decided to change it. I noticed it was pretty big if I had to guess 4-4.5mm so I swapped it with some 3.5mm I have. Then I checked the t-bolt clamp that holds the BOV to the charge pipe and it was pretty loose so I got that all tightened up. Going to head out and take some logs in a little bit and although i'm doubtful who knows maybe this did it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineSwift View Post
Completely stock fuel system right now. Looking to do an inline at some point soon after I get the DP's in (which should be in the next 2-3 weeks). Still haven't figured out which one to go with.
I'm running SteveAZ's pump from the other forum and it was easy to install and works great
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Last edited by psmitty95; 03-30-2014 at 04:16 PM.
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      03-30-2014, 04:12 PM   #16
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Well took the logs and problem isn't fixed.





http://datazap.me/u/psmith95/330-1

http://datazap.me/u/psmith95/330-2
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      03-30-2014, 04:41 PM   #17
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I'm willing to bet the dv can't hold the boost or the turbos are simply too small to be spinning that fast at the rpm range. You can try to make them hold high boost up top, but with the amount of hot air you produce, it will turn into inefficiency and/or heatsoak and a loss of power.

I crushed my DV to hold boost on my 2003 Evo, it couldn't make the boost I wanted with meth and boltons. I made hp and trq down low because the turbo could support it, but it made nothing up top and just generated more heat.
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      03-30-2014, 05:21 PM   #18
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I'm willing to bet the dv can't hold the boost or the turbos are simply too small to be spinning that fast at the rpm range. You can try to make them hold high boost up top, but with the amount of hot air you produce, it will turn into inefficiency and/or heatsoak and a loss of power.

I crushed my DV to hold boost on my 2003 Evo, it couldn't make the boost I wanted with meth and boltons. I made hp and trq down low because the turbo could support it, but it made nothing up top and just generated more heat.
Well the turbos are brand new and I could be wrong but I don't think map 7 is that aggressive for stock turbos as it is an OTS map. I am starting to think it might be my BOV leaking or something like that though
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      03-30-2014, 05:53 PM   #19
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I'm curious what tuners/vendors have had the turbos hold past 5500rpms? It might not be the turbo's age, just what they are capable of.
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      03-30-2014, 06:06 PM   #20
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I'm curious what tuners/vendors have had the turbos hold past 5500rpms? It might not be the turbo's age, just what they are capable of.
Hmm you do have a good point but mine is falling off at 4k. I just did some googling and can't find any right now but i'm trying to look for map 7 stock turbo logs to see if other cars can hit the map 7 targets
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      03-30-2014, 06:20 PM   #21
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I'm still stuck on it being related to the BOV. Double check which spring is installed in yours and verify that it is the one rated for your boost level. I feel like a typical boost leak related to a loose fitting somewhere etc would show underboost and increased WGDC throughout the powerband. Your leak appears almost identically starting around 16.5ish psi (based on the graph, not spreadsheet info), which leads me to believe that is the boost limit for some piece of hardware.

I remember you had some work done to modify downpipes/exhaust fitting, as well as work done with your O2 sensors. Any chance something done there could be the culprit (or was that work done after these issues appeared)?

Hope something brings about resolution for you! If you want a second set of eyes to take a look or brainstorm I'd be happy to help.
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      03-30-2014, 06:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
I'm still stuck on it being related to the BOV. Double check which spring is installed in yours and verify that it is the one rated for your boost level. I feel like a typical boost leak related to a loose fitting somewhere etc would show underboost and increased WGDC throughout the powerband. Your leak appears almost identically starting around 16.5ish psi (based on the graph, not spreadsheet info), which leads me to believe that is the boost limit for some piece of hardware.

I remember you had some work done to modify downpipes/exhaust fitting, as well as work done with your O2 sensors. Any chance something done there could be the culprit (or was that work done after these issues appeared)?

Hope something brings about resolution for you! If you want a second set of eyes to take a look or brainstorm I'd be happy to help.
I feel like it might be BOV related too but idk about spring. I feel like although this is aggressive for stock turbos brand new ones should be able to do it. In regards to the BOV I thought I read that for our cars you picked a spring based on vacuum not boost? I'm pretty sure the spring in there is the one that it came with. I don't think it's the o2 stuff as that exhaust has been sold so o2's are normal and the issue was there before that. Really don't know what it could be anymore... If you want to take a look too i'm open to anything at the moment as I am out of ideas. Going to a shop tomorrow to look at something with my wheels rubbing and maybe if they have time i'll do a pressurized boost leak test to see if the BOV is holding under 18 PSI or something like that. It is definitely weird that it occurs at the same exact spot every single time
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