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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Who will break an N54 first? Vishnu or Vargas ?



View Poll Results: Who will break the N54 first, Vishnu or Vargas ?
Vishnu 56 52.34%
Vargas 51 47.66%
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      04-20-2013, 12:26 PM   #45
Laid Black 335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
in the end it doesn't matter who it is NO ONE is going to be DD 600+ whp on the street, and you will probably NEVER enjoy 600+ whp on the street as you would 400 - 600 whp as a DD.

People should be looking at efficiency rather than dyno number.

All I know is this, Shiv I will break your track ET, and it will be done with less power, and possibly in FULL street trim.
False. People daily drive 600-700whp Supras, Z06's, GTR's all the time.

Example below (fast forward to 1:24)

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      04-20-2013, 01:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Laid Black 335i View Post
False. People daily drive 600-700whp Supras, Z06's, GTR's all the time.

Example below (fast forward to 1:24)
You do realize I did say DD ? Also do you think that Supra you referenced, or a GTR, and Z06 are running 255-265 suplimented rears especially and a compariable suspension to hold that type of power on the street ?

If your planing on using this as a DD at 600-700 whp if the tires and suspension dont get you, the gas will.

Our platform's inherit nature is the low end torque as a DD in traffic and light to light is what make it more fun and enjoyable .
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      04-20-2013, 02:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
You do realize I did say DD ? Also do you think that Supra you referenced, or a GTR, and Z06 are running 255-265 suplimented rears especially and a compariable suspension to hold that type of power on the street ?

If your planing on using this as a DD at 600-700 whp if the tires and suspension dont get you, the gas will.

Our platform's inherit nature is the low end torque as a DD in traffic and light to light is what make it more fun and enjoyable .
My DD will make 600whp+. I'm thinking of swapping out for a 328i bumper as well, just for the more sleeper look. I'm already debadged.
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      04-20-2013, 04:48 PM   #48
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My opinion on this is, we may never know who blows an engine first, unless they volunteer this information.

Nevertheless, my bet would be on the one company who has to play catch-up, which could either be Vishnu or Vargas. I know right now it's Vishnu leading, but waiting for Vargas to take back the lead.

Anyhow, while it is great both companies are pushing it, most of us would want reliability and a little margin for safety, and hence most would prefer not to run as aggressive as what is going on right now.....
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      04-20-2013, 05:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
You do realize I did say DD ? Also do you think that Supra you referenced, or a GTR, and Z06 are running 255-265 suplimented rears especially and a compariable suspension to hold that type of power on the street ?

If your planing on using this as a DD at 600-700 whp if the tires and suspension dont get you, the gas will.

Our platform's inherit nature is the low end torque as a DD in traffic and light to light is what make it more fun and enjoyable .
AWD fixes many issues with running big power on a DD. Luckily it just happens to be available on our platform.
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      04-20-2013, 06:37 PM   #50
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I know right now it's Vishnu leading, but waiting for Vargas to take back the lead.
Vishnu is NOT leading. Right now, they're effectively tied until we get a major press release. Seriously, shiv beat it by 7hp on a dyno that runs notoriously high and using smoothing 0 to bump his numbers up a bit. Whether he ran better numbers or not is irrelevant, because he neglected to post them. And Vargas has already surpassed Shiv's numbers today in testing; but his final results have not been released.
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      04-20-2013, 07:33 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
I know right now it's Vishnu leading, but waiting for Vargas to take back the lead.
Vishnu is NOT leading. Right now, they're effectively tied until we get a major press release. Seriously, shiv beat it by 7hp on a dyno that runs notoriously high and using smoothing 0 to bump his numbers up a bit. Whether he ran better numbers or not is irrelevant, because he neglected to post them. And Vargas has already surpassed Shiv's numbers today in testing; but his final results have not been released.
What does a stock n54 baseline on Vargas' dyno they are using?
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      04-20-2013, 07:39 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
Vishnu is NOT leading. Right now, they're effectively tied until we get a major press release. Seriously, shiv beat it by 7hp on a dyno that runs notoriously high and using smoothing 0 to bump his numbers up a bit. Whether he ran better numbers or not is irrelevant, because he neglected to post them. And Vargas has already surpassed Shiv's numbers today in testing; but his final results have not been released.
Vargas threw up 704 today on the first pull.
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      04-20-2013, 07:40 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
Vishnu is NOT leading. Right now, they're effectively tied until we get a major press release. Seriously, shiv beat it by 7hp on a dyno that runs notoriously high and using smoothing 0 to bump his numbers up a bit. Whether he ran better numbers or not is irrelevant, because he neglected to post them. And Vargas has already surpassed Shiv's numbers today in testing; but his final results have not been released.
The dynojet we use reads "notoriously high"? Lol. Please don't let facts get in the way of your explaination. Continue...

Also, no one, but us, knows how much power we really made last week. And it will say that way until we have reason to disclose it. We are in no race, as far as I know. Vargas is proving us with a very good opportunity to show why we went with a single turbo option over twins. We couldn't have done this ourselves if we wanted to.
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      04-20-2013, 07:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
Vishnu is NOT leading. Right now, they're effectively tied until we get a major press release. Seriously, shiv beat it by 7hp on a dyno that runs notoriously high and using smoothing 0 to bump his numbers up a bit. Whether he ran better numbers or not is irrelevant, because he neglected to post them. And Vargas has already surpassed Shiv's numbers today in testing; but his final results have not been released.
Let me ask you this then, how do you know Shiv's biggest numbers?

Right now the highest posted hp numbers is Shiv's (715), and he's already said it was not his highest. So Vargas should post higher than 715 IMO.

Also, let's not get into the high reading dyno game, cos this kind of tactic goes both ways, right?

Don't be offended, everyone wins in the end, no need to get defensive...


Edit: to be really honest, I think competition is good, but I get the feeling Tony might have started something he probably wished he could have done differently, should he not be able to deliver. But in any case, we will know soon enough where this is all going. Go Vargas! and Go Vishnu!
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Last edited by kenneth; 04-20-2013 at 07:45 PM.
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      04-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The dynojet we use reads "notoriously high"? Lol. Please don't let facts get in the way of your explaination. Continue...

Also, no one, but us, knows how much power we really made last week. And it will say that way until we have reason to disclose it. We are in no race, as far as I know. Vargas is proving us with a very good opportunity to show why we went with a single turbo option over twins. We couldn't have done this ourselves if we wanted to.
Until we get some track times from both ends is nothing more than a dyno battle.
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      04-20-2013, 08:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
You do realize I did say DD ? Also do you think that Supra you referenced, or a GTR, and Z06 are running 255-265 suplimented rears especially and a compariable suspension to hold that type of power on the street ?

If your planing on using this as a DD at 600-700 whp if the tires and suspension dont get you, the gas will.

Our platform's inherit nature is the low end torque as a DD in traffic and light to light is what make it more fun and enjoyable .
Yes, I do realize that you said DD. That's why I replied by saying "People daily drive 600-700whp Supras, Z06's, GTR's all the time."

Also, I'm already running 275's on my rears on my daily driven E92 and there are many other E92 owners running 285's.
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      04-20-2013, 11:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The dynojet we use reads "notoriously high"? Lol. Please don't let facts get in the way of your explaination. Continue...

Also, no one, but us, knows how much power we really made last week. And it will say that way until we have reason to disclose it. We are in no race, as far as I know. Vargas is proving us with a very good opportunity to show why we went with a single turbo option over twins. We couldn't have done this ourselves if we wanted to.
My opinion on why you went single instead of twin is because it is cheaper (you only have to purchase one turbo).
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      04-21-2013, 12:25 AM   #58
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Single turbos are more efficient than twins but are laggier. And yea they are cheaper since there's only one. All the high hp supras go single for a reason
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      04-21-2013, 12:40 AM   #59
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Single turbos are more efficient than twins but are laggier. And yea they are cheaper since there's only one. All the high hp supras go single for a reason
Correct, except that lag depends on how each kit can be set up. The compromises due to the tight space of N54 that needs to be made for fitting twins, is causing problems. So, the power / spool up combo is not what it would be with more space and ability to set the kit up better.
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      04-21-2013, 12:56 AM   #60
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In other words, the current single actually spools up faster than an equivilantly sized twin setup. I know this goes against current internet lore, but it seems to work that way in the real world.
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      04-21-2013, 12:57 AM   #61
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Single turbos are more efficient than twins but are laggier. And yea they are cheaper since there's only one. All the high hp supras go single for a reason
In the case of the n54, a single is much more responsive/less lag than an equivalently sized twin. There is just too much packaging compromise with fitting two big turbos in there. Also the smallish frame turbos on the twin setup aren't nearly as happy as a big single in running the high pressure ratios needed for big power (600+whp).
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      04-21-2013, 01:06 AM   #62
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Speaking of pressure ratios, does anyone know how much boost Vargas had to run to get his numbers?
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      04-21-2013, 03:01 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Vishnu has not done that. And by suggesting that you are fueling the machine that you claim to dislike

-shiv
When/if you blow one up (with the ST kit) would you publish your findings?
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      04-21-2013, 03:02 AM   #64
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Speaking of pressure ratios, does anyone know how much boost Vargas had to run to get his numbers?
Would be nice to know, wouldn't it?
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      04-21-2013, 07:01 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by xbox_fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Vishnu has not done that. And by suggesting that you are fueling the machine that you claim to dislike

-shiv
When/if you blow one up (with the ST kit) would you publish your findings?
Lol. I highly doubt it. In all honesty its really hard to believe anything of what he says to some degree
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      04-21-2013, 10:41 AM   #66
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Lol. I highly doubt it. In all honesty its really hard to believe anything of what he says to some degree
You're a vendor? and you're calling out another vendor as not being honest?

It wouldn't be FFTEC or Vishnu who publishes an engine failure if one were to happen on a ST car. Just because it has an FFTEC ST which is tuned by Vishnu wouldn't be a direct indicator that it caused the engine failure. How many RB cars have blown up in the past couple of years? Was it Rob's fault the cars failed or was it Terry's fault because they were running his tune?

Unfortunately most people are so focused on just hating on Shiv that it would be all about Shiv causing an engine failure on a ST car and not about what really happened. So again, why would Shiv step up and say it was his tune that caused the failure? Maybe the end user didn't change the oil and was a quart down and took his car to the track and blew it up in a long sweeper, then who's to blame? Or maybe they money shifted one time too many?

So what has Shiv done to make you think he wouldn't be honest? He has a business to protect and why would he be forthcoming with all the facts? He's not an end user who doesn't have any Intellectual Property to protect. Do you see people calling COBB out like they call out Shiv?

Sorry, just a little disappointed in your post considering your status.
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