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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VFF+VARGAS-- Single & Twin Turbo 335i TEST DRIVE and BBQ/MEET/DYNODAY



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      04-21-2013, 10:01 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Maybe one day someone will do a background check on you and then we will see who is calling the kettle black.
I see no reason to try and stir this up again. going off topic

this threads going to be closed soon anyways
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      04-21-2013, 10:07 AM   #68
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With no disrespect, even if vtt accepted i dont think their car would be ready to run some 60-130s or 1/4 mile times. I have been reading alot on both forums for quite some time and i havent read that any suspension, m3 bits, lsd, or lockdown kit have been put on this car. Correct me if I'm wrong. This i would imagine would make it hard to put down the power that he is making but i applaud him making this kind of power with twins. Seems to me like he has got the product to where he feels comfortable to sell to the public. This does not mean he has built a race car to drop it into for the streets yet.

If i remember correctly the audi s4 was usually maxed out at like 550-600whp so to see 725whp i am pretty happy. His brothers car is not set up like captian insanos car is and im sure his car is putting the power down much easier. I don't think it is a fair comparison until these twins are on a car with close to the mods as his except for the same dyno on the same day to match numbers and for people to see both cars running without hiccups.

I like both turbo kits and I think it is great that there is competition. It makes me keep my car longer and longer and makes my decision on my car a better one everyday i read this forum(except for the bickering and crap of that nature).

Best of the luck to both of you guys and i hope to see a match between the two of you eventually with properly set cars. Congrats on continuing the platform to the next level. I hope to have a single/upgraded twin n54 to keep next to the m2/m4 when they come out.
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      04-21-2013, 10:14 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes335XI View Post
I think at this point Vargas does not have to do this as they doing great with their stage 2 and stage 3 kits.

But good luck.
I don't disagree Vargas has come a long way in a short amount of time, but other than a few dyno numbers and some pictures, what do we have? I hope his kits work well for the customers who have jumped the gun and bought them without any real data to back them up. Only time will tell if the stage 2 will hold up, and for the stage 3, well without any actual drive data who knows what issues will be uncovered. Again, only time will tell... I do wish them the best.
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      04-21-2013, 10:35 AM   #70
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Too bad this won't happen! Would have been great for those of us still on the fence....

For me, Stage 2 makes the most sense for my use (tracking on road course). Waiting anxiously for reviews of the Stage 2. Maybe I'll end up going with RB, we'll see. They've likely iron out all the wrinkles by now.

In case I decide to really indulge, I also wanted to know whether we can safely track the FFtec/Vishnu ST on straight pump gas (93-94 oct) without meth, or how it compares to RB on road courses, never got an answer, and don't think I ever will. So these (friendly) competitive BBQ / shootouts are more important for folks like me.

Anyway, I am definitely not buying anything without more information.

Cheers everybody. Lighten up, it's only about cars and we're all in this together. Fanboyism is so ridiculously stupid!

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      04-21-2013, 10:42 AM   #71
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Didn't more people than just Captain Insano buy Shivs kit? Be nice to see if they are going to upgrade their turbos to stay competitive.

Don't really know how many are still out there because all the posts seem to have dried up. It would be really great to get a list of all the current users saying what their status is now.
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      04-21-2013, 11:04 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Didn't more people than just Captain Insano buy Shivs kit? Be nice to see if they are going to upgrade their turbos to stay competitive.

Don't really know how many are still out there because all the posts seem to have dried up. It would be really great to get a list of all the current users saying what their status is now.
I drove Prem's (Sikh335) car before Shift S3ctor after resetting adaptations and I have to say that car is crazy fast. Can't wait to see what the new transmission build will do if it can hold the power his car is making.

CupertinoSteve put down a 6.88 sec 60 - 130 with a stock AT with Alpina flash.

So that's why I say Prem's car will be a record breaker if he can get the power down because he'll be making a lot more power than Steve's car was when he did the 6.88.

I know it's nice to have the latest and greatest, but I think the kits are still competitive. Just like everything else time will only produce better options as things progress.

In all reality I would be very happy with 600 whp daily driver. I know that wouldn't be an option with RB's as they won't make the power at that level without running them at 100% DC. Last thing I want is to spend that kind of money and have them fail six month after I put them in because I'm running them too hard. So for now, I'm just going to sit back and see what plays out over the next couple of months as today we don't have enough information to validate the upgraded twins from Vargas. I don't like the unknown.
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      04-21-2013, 11:20 AM   #73
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I wish this would happen, it would be a fun event. All the people talking shit about it are crazy. I don't know how anyone WOULDN'T want this to happen.
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      04-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I think it's really funny that people have already made deposits for the stage 3 and are standing in line like little kids waiting for the candy store to open for something that hasn't done anything but put up some nice dyno numbers.

I just wonder how long people will sit around waiting to get their kits and when they do get them, I wonder how long it is before they start having issues because no real testing was performed. We have NO 60-130 times. We have no 1/4 mile times. Will it even run a 1/2 mile without coding?

Other than making high HP truck turbos, what has Vargas done other than hop up his brother in-laws car? He talks about a HPFP, but has anyone other than him seen or used it? Do we have any real data regarding it? How long will it last before it fails?

Sorry if you're too stupid to not see the light at the end of the tunnel, but most of you bash Shiv about not providing ST quarter mile numbers and yet when Vargas puts a few nice dyno numbers on the forum you bow at his feet.

Just for once, take Shiv out of the picture and lets look at who really put the ST in to play, FFTEC. This company has a proven track record of making and testing high performance cars. So other than the fact they have been tuned with PROcede, why do you people hate on FFTEC?

Vargas knows better than to go head to head with FFTEC/Vishnu. Just look at the overlays. ST spools quicker and reaches peak torque quicker. Also stays nice and flat though the rpm range.

For everyone who has made a commitment, congrats. I hope this kit is everything you hoped for and more.
For large turbo kits like this I think many customers feel its less about getting it done right away and more about getting it done right. There are reasons people continue to run and favor twin turbo setups for street cars and this kit has shown in prototype form that it has a ton of potential. It certainly has FFTEC scrambling around putting on new larger turbos, etc, to stay relevant after only 3 dyno tests done with remote tuning. Once a few more of these kits are out on the road you'll see the tuning improve dramatically.

Mike
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      04-21-2013, 12:51 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I think it's really funny that people have already made deposits for the stage 3 and are standing in line like little kids waiting for the candy store to open for something that hasn't done anything but put up some nice dyno numbers.

I just wonder how long people will sit around waiting to get their kits and when they do get them, I wonder how long it is before they start having issues because no real testing was performed. We have NO 60-130 times. We have no 1/4 mile times. Will it even run a 1/2 mile without coding?

Other than making high HP truck turbos, what has Vargas done other than hop up his brother in-laws car? He talks about a HPFP, but has anyone other than him seen or used it? Do we have any real data regarding it? How long will it last before it fails?

Sorry if you're too stupid to not see the light at the end of the tunnel, but most of you bash Shiv about not providing ST quarter mile numbers and yet when Vargas puts a few nice dyno numbers on the forum you bow at his feet.

Just for once, take Shiv out of the picture and lets look at who really put the ST in to play, FFTEC. This company has a proven track record of making and testing high performance cars. So other than the fact they have been tuned with PROcede, why do you people hate on FFTEC?

Vargas knows better than to go head to head with FFTEC/Vishnu. Just look at the overlays. ST spools quicker and reaches peak torque quicker. Also stays nice and flat though the rpm range.

For everyone who has made a commitment, congrats. I hope this kit is everything you hoped for and more.
For large turbo kits like this I think many customers feel its less about getting it done right away and more about getting it done right. There are reasons people continue to run and favor twin turbo setups for street cars and this kit has shown in prototype form that it has a ton of potential. It certainly has FFTEC scrambling around putting on new larger turbos, etc, to stay relevant after only 3 dyno tests done with remote tuning. Once a few more of these kits are out on the road you'll see the tuning improve dramatically.

Mike
Tony's work has made Vishnu and FFTEC more transparent on the Internet, they are always working on the kits because they are constantly trying to improve a product as well as develop new ones. Sure it looks like scrambling from a computer screen and I understand that, but I can assure you, it wasn't magically "oh the competition is making power, better slap this turbo on and up the psi a little. Things have been planned since before Vargas had released any numbers. I know a lot of people like to think Tony started a massive fire, but these things were always coming, the Internet community just wasn't aware. This isn't to take away from Tony's accomplishments on furthering this platform big time with more options and a hpfp upgrade, I think what he has done for all of us is amazing and I applaud his efforts for what little time he's been working on our platform!
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      04-21-2013, 01:09 PM   #76
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Vargas came into the BMW scene and immediately began to bash both shiv and rob. Mind you be hasn't sold a single production turbo yet. Literally everything posted here by him over the past 2 weeks is deleted or censored. What comes out of his mouth (before moderator) is insulting and shows you his true nature as an individual. He has acted like a child and has been nothing buy insulting. I will NEVER buy a product that he sells even if it was vastly superior. He contradicts himself in every other thread, bashes everyone's products and has a god like mentality. Do yourself a favor and associate with a decent individual not a Varg-ass.

Lets see him finally produce a single unit that 'isn't beta, or pre production'.
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      04-21-2013, 01:35 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335xi Kevo View Post
Vargas came into the BMW scene and immediately began to bash both shiv and rob. Mind you be hasn't sold a single production turbo yet. Literally everything posted here by him over the past 2 weeks is deleted or censored. What comes out of his mouth (before moderator) is insulting and shows you his true nature as an individual. He has acted like a child and has been nothing buy insulting. I will NEVER buy a product that he sells even if it was vastly superior. He contradicts himself in every other thread, bashes everyone's products and has a god like mentality. Do yourself a favor and associate with a decent individual not a Varg-ass.

Lets see him finally produce a single unit that 'isn't beta, or pre production'.
its crazy that you see it that way, because i see it in a whole different perspective.

vargas/tony has been pretty respectful while fftec and vishnu and many of their ST owners have chimed in to bash vargas.

in my eyes, vargas has just shown what they have done, taken some orders (shipped out some orders) and have been updating their projects in real time.

You, like vishnu and other fftec ST owners, are bashing him for no apparent reason. i can understand fftex part, because they have to protect their customer base, but you? Varg-ass? what are you 10 years old? have some maturity in your post. bias, isnt even the word to describe it.
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      04-21-2013, 01:42 PM   #78
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Honestly I don't know why we all aren't excited to see our cars reach a new benchmark. It's pretty awesome thinking that our 335s, with proper mods/tuning, can blow the overpriced doors off of some exotics out there. That just gives me a big ol happy motor boner. Props to both camps for pushing the envelope. Keep it positive for the community!
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      04-21-2013, 02:20 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky
As an enthusiast, I'm hoping it happens
+1 I would love to attend.
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      04-21-2013, 02:23 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky
As an enthusiast, I'm hoping it happens
+1 I would love to attend.
Let's go, we can do a shoot as well, I just hope it happens, if not it'd still be a blast to have a FFTEC/Vishnu BBQ, N54 ftw!
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      04-21-2013, 02:55 PM   #81
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its crazy that you see it that way, because i see it in a whole different perspective.

vargas/tony has been pretty respectful while fftec and vishnu and many of their ST owners have chimed in to bash vargas.

in my eyes, vargas has just shown what they have done, taken some orders (shipped out some orders) and have been updating their projects in real time.

You, like vishnu and other fftec ST owners, are bashing him for no apparent reason. i can understand fftex part, because they have to protect their customer base, but you? Varg-ass? what are you 10 years old? have some maturity in your post. bias, isnt even the word to describe it.
While I may not agree with some of the words 335xi Kevo decided to use, Vargas is absolutely not off the hook here. Instead of just showcasing their product, they have spun things to be in their favor or added in little rumors to stir up speculation (and then gets upset when someone continues to talk about it in their thread). Some examples:
  • Pricing: Adding the cost of tune, intercooler, meth, exhaust to VFF kit but not VTT kit when comparing
  • Claiming VFF is running fuel pump upgrade with no evidence
  • Claiming VFF is running "second" manifold design to hit 700+ with no evidence
  • Criticizing the usage of meth, but using it in their runs
  • Criticizing the lack of transparency or early dyno runs, yet VFF provided lots of very early dynos, complete with actual data logs and street videos and eventually track numbers. We have yet to see data logs from VTT dynos, and now we apparently won't see a shoot-out since Vargas backed out, so we have to wait until summer time. We also still don't know how much boost they ran for the last run.
  • Spreading rumors that VFF didn't use 91 octane for the 91 octane results, or that they weren't clear on what octane they used in other runs, when during the VTT 98 octane runs, they decided "oh we aren't sure actually, it may actually be 96-98", so are people to expect those results with 96 or 98?
  • Using the phrase "seen the dyno 3 times". I believe PTF stated they did 150+ pulls during "one" of those sessions alone. Now to be clear, I don't think it's a bad thing that they did so many pulls, it shows how dedicated they are, but don't make it sound like it's barely had any dyno time

As for being respectful:

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      04-21-2013, 03:22 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
For large turbo kits like this I think many customers feel its less about getting it done right away and more about getting it done right. There are reasons people continue to run and favor twin turbo setups for street cars and this kit has shown in prototype form that it has a ton of potential. It certainly has FFTEC scrambling around putting on new larger turbos, etc, to stay relevant after only 3 dyno tests done with remote tuning. Once a few more of these kits are out on the road you'll see the tuning improve dramatically.

Mike
Well, I don't doubt the tuning will get better as they get more real world logs, but FFTEC didn't scramble. They are always working on something and I'm sure those options have been in the works for sometime as they are not ones to just throw something out just to keep up. Just so happens they were ready to release information about what they have been working on. I come from a large manufacturer background and the one thing we don't do is release information about what we're working on until it's time to build market awareness. I would hope they do the same to keep people from undermining their R&D efforts. Everyone wants disclosure but in all reality people should realize they are on a need to know bases.
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      04-21-2013, 03:29 PM   #83
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Hmmmm... Did i call it or did i call it?
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      04-21-2013, 04:05 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I drove Prem's (Sikh335) car before Shift S3ctor after resetting adaptations and I have to say that car is crazy fast. Can't wait to see what the new transmission build will do if it can hold the power his car is making.

CupertinoSteve put down a 6.88 sec 60 - 130 with a stock AT with Alpina flash.

So that's why I say Prem's car will be a record breaker if he can get the power down because he'll be making a lot more power than Steve's car was when he did the 6.88.

I know it's nice to have the latest and greatest, but I think the kits are still competitive. Just like everything else time will only produce better options as things progress.

In all reality I would be very happy with 600 whp daily driver. I know that wouldn't be an option with RB's as they won't make the power at that level without running them at 100% DC. Last thing I want is to spend that kind of money and have them fail six month after I put them in because I'm running them too hard. So for now, I'm just going to sit back and see what plays out over the next couple of months as today we don't have enough information to validate the upgraded twins from Vargas. I don't like the unknown.
That's what I mean. Prem's car was pretty much a concurrent development with Shivs car & then we have the Captains car. Rumors are he sold between 10 & 25 kits but outside of the lady’s car not a peep other than one was for resale. IIRC the ladys' car ran low 11 & one other guy GT? ran mid 12 then has pretty much disappeared from the forums. The guy from New England posted a lot when he got his kit but he has also disappeared.

Since you are in effect touting a “proven” product against a prototype it would be really really nice to get some data on the missing kits. This would provide a body of data to demonstrate actual customer experiences with Shiv’s kit.
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      04-21-2013, 04:47 PM   #85
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Gawd this has gone downhill quickly...

Looking back this was an attempt by Shiv to look like the good guy and passively call out Tony... and this forum has become all about "records" which is slightly annoying...

We need a separate section for vendor turbocharging banter.

And from my personal experience, Tony has been nothing but helpful and pleasant to talk to and work with. I emailed Shiv a couple months back regarding some fuel pump questions and he was very polite and nice as well.

If they want to go at it 1v1 then let them, we don't need fucking fanboys trying to back up the facts or what not. I have just been supportive of Tony and what he is doing for my car and the N54 platform.

It's also funny to think that us track guys never bash on each other and compete over track times. I know money isn't involved, but I am always willing to help out another driver with technique or pointers.
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      04-21-2013, 05:00 PM   #86
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Start throwing hands and settle this like a man
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