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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > SPONSORS Classifieds/Groupbuys/Specials Area > Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Parts > SPP Group Buy pre-order: NEW RPI 335i bolt-on FMIC 26WHP gain!



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      09-25-2007, 05:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremepower View Post
All depends on Dyno, conditions, which gear was used, and calibration. There are so many variables. but as mentioned, the GAIN is there from baseline with identical conditions, same day.
There is no comparison of stock vs FMIC, or even Xede and exhaust w/o FMIC then to FMIC.

Xede usually pus down more than 320 to the wheels...

The only way to truely tell is to set it up on the dyno completely stock, then run it again with just the FMIC.

Or...At least run it without the FMIC, with all the mods, then run it with the FMIC and all the mods...You need a constant a variable to compare them to.

I just wish I could see the comparison...the whp is just way too low even for just exhast and AA xede...a stock runs approx. 275 - 285 whp. A 45-55 whp increase is small with the FMIC, exhaust and Xede.

Only thing I can think of is they set up the dyno poorly, the numbers are HIGHLY conservative, you are at a high altitude, temps were very high, or fan wasn't working in the dyno room... Any of this experienced?

So, from a very likely future customer, could you please post a comparison dyno.
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      09-25-2007, 06:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideelement247 View Post
There is no comparison of stock vs FMIC,
yes there is, see the first dyno posted. I think you may not have read the first post corretly, or I was not clear. Those two graphs were from the same car, same exact specs, the lower being with the stock IC, and the higher with the FMIC added. Otherwise there would be no way for me to claim 26WHP gain.

Quote:
or even Xede and exhaust w/o FMIC then to FMIC.
That is precisely what we did..

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Xede usually pus down more than 320 to the wheels...
with what mods on what dyno? Sounds good, but not enough info to go off of as a direct comparisson. Again, doesnt really matter what the dyno said. There is a baseline, then a rerun with the mod on the same day, showing a gain.

Quote:
The only way to truely tell is to set it up on the dyno completely stock, then run it again with just the FMIC.

Or...At least run it without the FMIC, with all the mods, then run it with the FMIC and all the mods...You need a constant a variable to compare them to.
Again... thats exactly what we did, not sure why you think we didnt? There are 2 plots on the graph, and I explained in detail what we did. The 2nd graph is just using a different dyno, as people requested. Did not have the time to put it back to stock and test again, then put the mods back on. See the first graph for gains.

Quote:
I just wish I could see the comparison...the whp is just way too low even for just exhast and AA xede...a stock runs approx. 275 - 285 whp. A 45-55 whp increase is small with the FMIC, exhaust and Xede.
I highly doubt a bone stock 335 is putting 285 to the wheels. The motor is great and probalby understated from factory but not that much. Way too optomistic numbers. Maybe on a Dynojet in the wrong gear in alaska..

Quote:
Only thing I can think of is they set up the dyno poorly, the numbers are HIGHLY conservative, you are at a high altitude, temps were very high, or fan wasn't working in the dyno room... Any of this experienced?

So, from a very likely future customer, could you please post a comparison dyno.
The setup was actually done correctly, thats why the numbers are low.. many times they are not done right. Secondly the dyno dynamics ALWAYS produce conservative numbers as mentioned mannnnny times in this thread. Temps were in the mid 80s.

I can not reitterate anymore times that all dynos are different, all operators are different, all cars are different, way too many variables to claim something is not right, etc. The simple fact is we did in fact to a basely, changed only the IC, and realized a 26whp gain. Most people are trying to inflate numbers, Race Precision calls it like it is. The car is showing about 390+ realistic crank hp, and 430lb feet. Thats pretty darn good, and it has consistant power, keeps pulling over and over, not good for just 1-2 runs like other chipped cars.

Hope this clears up any confusion. As people start buying thse and dynoing, I'm sure we will see a wide variety of results, but probably the same gains over their baseline.
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      09-25-2007, 06:17 PM   #25
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Guys, the % of drivetrain loss is only a theory. There is NO way to tell actual powertrain loss other than putting the engine on an engine dyno then dynoing the SAME engine on the SAME car on a chassis dyno after.

Our dyno test was done on the stock intercooler, then our intercooler upgrade. The reason you are not seeing the same base numbers as others are getting is because our dyno reads low. It is a Dyno Dynamics eddy current dyno. Its going to read LOWER than a dynojet or mustang. Inertia dynos measure hp/tq be measuring the accerelation of the dyno drum. Our dyno measure hp/tq by applying a strain or resistance to the roller. The bottom line is that you need to test the car on the same dyno. Its not accurate to test a stock intercooler on one dyno then test a new one on another dyno, even if its the same model. Those who are getting 280whp stock can come down here and I will dyno the car for you. If your car dynos 280whp STOCK on our dyno, the session will be FREE.

Here are the facts:

- YES, dyno was done with both the stock and upgraded intercoolers (26whp gain)

- YES, it is a COMPLETE BOLT ON

- NO, NOTHING. I mean NOTHING to modify at all to install this intercooler.

- I have to say it again because someone will ask. NO, you dont need to cut or modify anything on the car to install this intercooler. No, you dont need aftermarket hoses or couplers.

- To install the intercooler, simply remove the bumper, unbolt the front of the lower panels/covers. Stock intercooler is held on by two screws on each side + the tubing clips. Remove those, the intercooler drops down. Its a tight fit, but our intercoolers will fit just like the stock ones. Use the stock clips to connect the intercooler. Use stock screws to hold intercooler in place. There is a plastic strip that was bolted to the bottom of the stock intercooler. You will leave that off. Put everything back together.

You wont have to disconnect any plumbing, ps, oil, etc.
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      09-25-2007, 06:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPIpower View Post
Guys, the % of drivetrain loss is only a theory. There is NO way to tell actual powertrain loss other than putting the engine on an engine dyno then dynoing the SAME engine on the SAME car on a chassis dyno after.

Our dyno test was done on the stock intercooler, then our intercooler upgrade. The reason you are not seeing the same base numbers as others are getting is because our dyno reads low. It is a Dyno Dynamics eddy current dyno. Its going to read LOWER than a dynojet or mustang. Inertia dynos measure hp/tq be measuring the accerelation of the dyno drum. Our dyno measure hp/tq by applying a strain or resistance to the roller. The bottom line is that you need to test the car on the same dyno. Its not accurate to test a stock intercooler on one dyno then test a new one on another dyno, even if its the same model. Those who are getting 280whp stock can come down here and I will dyno the car for you. If your car dynos 280whp STOCK on our dyno, the session will be FREE.

Here are the facts:

- YES, dyno was done with both the stock and upgraded intercoolers (26whp gain)

- YES, it is a COMPLETE BOLT ON

- NO, NOTHING. I mean NOTHING to modify at all to install this intercooler.

- I have to say it again because someone will ask. NO, you dont need to cut or modify anything on the car to install this intercooler. No, you dont need aftermarket hoses or couplers.

Yes, I understand that you saw a 26 whp on the original. I was just curious why you posted a new dyno without a comparison on the new dynojet

That, and the numbers are pretty low, just saying that in general...especially for the mods you have.

Another thing you could consider is maybe the AA Xede is holding your numbers back? Like when Mr. 5 had his highflow cats and the PROcede installed?

Just a possibility...I'm just trying to read the graph the best I can and compare everything out there before I buy.
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      09-25-2007, 07:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideelement247 View Post
Yes, I understand that you saw a 26 whp on the original. I was just curious why you posted a new dyno without a comparison on the new dynojet

That, and the numbers are pretty low, just saying that in general...especially for the mods you have.

Another thing you could consider is maybe the AA Xede is holding your numbers back? Like when Mr. 5 had his highflow cats and the PROcede installed?

Just a possibility...I'm just trying to read the graph the best I can and compare everything out there before I buy.
I cant comment on if we have a lesser version of the Xede or not. I know that eurosports dyno is calibrated to be more realistic than a normal Dynojet. But once again, the dyno top end numbers dont matter, its the gain that product brings. Not sure what you mean by holding the numbers back. It may be that we have an early AA tune.
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      10-05-2007, 07:24 PM   #28
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Just a heads up guys. First intercooler in this batch is going to a 335i that is going to be at SEMA. Next week the intercoolers will start shipping out to people who have already ordered. There are only 25 available in this batch so if you have not ordered yet and want one, might want to let us know asap. All intercoolers bought here include free install + dyno.
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      10-15-2007, 09:10 PM   #29
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Has anyone purchased this IC and had it installed? Can anyone tell me about the Supreme Power shop? Do they do good work? Would you let them work on your BMW? Let's have some comments!!
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      10-15-2007, 11:01 PM   #30
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i wanna know too.
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      10-16-2007, 06:04 AM   #31
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i wanna know too.
+1

I also wanna see comparitive dynos like active autowerke did, showing that not much HP was lost from back to back runs. Dynos with IAT would be nice as well. Before and afters would be nice
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      10-16-2007, 08:26 AM   #32
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doing this on a XEDE car inflated the numbers... when a chipped car is on the dyno with the hood closed as you said, it builds up a lot more heat than a stock car on the dyno. The BMW ECU (DME) begins to pull back timing because of the heat from the extra boost, and you lose power. If this was a stock car, the gains would be significantly less.

But... as you said, most people who buy an intercooler will be chipped.
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      10-16-2007, 12:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideelement247 View Post
+1

I also wanna see comparitive dynos like active autowerke did, showing that not much HP was lost from back to back runs. Dynos with IAT would be nice as well. Before and afters would be nice
As already mentioned we did 4-5 pulls, and each time the car GAINED power, please check back in the first post. With the stock intercooler, the car lost power each run. There is a before and after... please look at the Dyno graph! says right on it, with RPI IC and without.
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      10-16-2007, 12:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
doing this on a XEDE car inflated the numbers... when a chipped car is on the dyno with the hood closed as you said, it builds up a lot more heat than a stock car on the dyno. The BMW ECU (DME) begins to pull back timing because of the heat from the extra boost, and you lose power. If this was a stock car, the gains would be significantly less.

But... as you said, most people who buy an intercooler will be chipped.
What you say is correct. Thats why many tuners/mfgs dyno with the hood open as it makes "more power" but the way we do it is the no BS method, hood closed. Its a harsher environment, and the given product has to work harder. So if anything, its a testimant to the product. It allows the car to NOT pull timing due to excessive IATs.

On a stock car I think the gains would be less. significantly, not sure. I think the gains would be a bit less, BUT you would have consistant power, no heat soak after 1-2 dyno pulls.

I can pull up the other dyno pulls in separate graphs if you guys would like so you can see that there was no loss of power after 4 pulls.
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      10-16-2007, 12:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe View Post
Has anyone purchased this IC and had it installed? Can anyone tell me about the Supreme Power shop? Do they do good work? Would you let them work on your BMW? Let's have some comments!!
They are a GREAT shop, the guys there are awesome, they work almost exclusively on european cars. They are a very reputable shop. I dont have the intercooler but I can comment on the people and their service. Both, are top notch!
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      10-16-2007, 03:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremepower View Post
As already mentioned we did 4-5 pulls, and each time the car GAINED power, please check back in the first post. With the stock intercooler, the car lost power each run. There is a before and after... please look at the Dyno graph! says right on it, with RPI IC and without.
But it doesn't record EACH pull back-to-back, nor does it compare IAT. The IAT have to be lower to produce more power...but I'd still like to see the dyno sheet comparing ALL FOUR RUNS. Not just one dyno sheet with one run, and your word that it continues making power. For all we know, that could be the first run, and performance could have had a drop after that. Please bring all the fact to the table, it would really benefit you guys, especially since alot of people B/S around here...
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      10-16-2007, 03:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideelement247 View Post
But it doesn't record EACH pull back-to-back, nor does it compare IAT. The IAT have to be lower to produce more power...but I'd still like to see the dyno sheet comparing ALL FOUR RUNS. Not just one dyno sheet with one run, and your word that it continues making power. For all we know, that could be the first run, and performance could have had a drop after that. Please bring all the fact to the table, it would really benefit you guys, especially since alot of people B/S around here...
I put the request in for the Dyno Graph with all the pulls on it - will post it as soon as I get it.
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      10-16-2007, 03:51 PM   #38
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Has anyone purchased this IC and had it installed? Can anyone tell me about the Supreme Power shop? Do they do good work? Would you let them work on your BMW? Let's have some comments!!
they are highly recommended
 
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      10-16-2007, 03:51 PM   #39
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I put the request in for the Dyno Graph with all the pulls on it - will post it as soon as I get it.
Thanks

It's just better to put everything out on the table when you introduce your product on the forums as people are lying, and are suspicious of others lying as well.

It will be good to see the consistency, since nearly any shop can custom fab an intercooler, at least where I live. Also, those shops that do them, aren't that grat, so I am very wary of these products that don't show all data. Sorry, I've just seen others burnt by issues of not receiving all the info, and don't want to be burnt as well.
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      10-16-2007, 04:46 PM   #40
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Has anyone purchased this IC and had it installed? Can anyone tell me about the Supreme Power shop? Do they do good work? Would you let them work on your BMW? Let's have some comments!!
SPP is a reputable shop and they do good work. Yes, I would let them work on my car.
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      10-16-2007, 04:47 PM   #41
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I put the request in for the Dyno Graph with all the pulls on it - will post it as soon as I get it.

I emailed Eric to discuss possibilities.
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      10-30-2007, 03:57 PM   #42
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      10-30-2007, 07:28 PM   #43
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Any FMIC for the sedans like a 2008 335xi thanx..latez
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      10-30-2007, 07:55 PM   #44
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Quality looks top notch! it looks like you guys are using some kind of clamps to mount to the I/C Piping ... are you? or is it typical t-bolt clamps?
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