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      04-21-2013, 05:51 PM   #1
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"Safe Tune"

I have an 07 e92 Automatic. I would like to get as much WHP as possible. that being said i am not a professional driver, this is my only car and i dont want to have to rebuild the engine every 6 months.I am looking at driving with 19psi boost which is considered by many very conservative with the option of raising the boost when i hit the track. Conservative power is better than no power. This is where it gets tricky as everyone seems to have a different idea of what safe tuning is. I do understand when tuning a car risk is always there and i am willing to take that risk, but the risk of adding jb4 or Procede to car is considered by everyone as minimal risk, while getting 700+whp would probably damage my engine in no time.

I have talked to Terry from BMS and he told me that for an automatic i should be looking for nothing more than 500 whp unless i want to rebuild the short block with pistons and even with that its still unknown for automatic to be reliable.

I called Vishnu performance shop and i got the idea from them that with VFF600 the right modifications (procede,Meth,e85 forged bypass valves, etc...) i should be running 600whp+ with 19psi with nothing to worry about.

I contacted Vargas and im still waiting his take on this, Emailed him yesterday so i will probably get his response this week.

Im not looking to get flamed although i know someone will find a reason to flame me anyways, im a software engineer with no experience in regard to tuning. I want to get the most out of my car without having to rebuild the engine every now and then.

Note #1: this is not a Vishnu vs Vargas thread please do not turn it into one.

Note #2 : If Terry or Vishnu believe that i misquoted them in this thread, i apologize. Please correct me if i misunderstood what you were trying to tell me.
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      04-21-2013, 06:11 PM   #2
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What are your power goals? What mods are you willing to do? 19PSI on the stock turbo's is no where near conservative.

Boost is just one part of the equation when it comes to tuning, so instead of targeting boost as your goal you need to find a WHP goal you'd like as a daily driver then mod from there.
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      04-21-2013, 06:23 PM   #3
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600+ whp? With what turbos and heads at 19psi? Not stock for either, that's for sure.

You shouldn't define your goals in boost. How much power do you want reliably? How much money do you want to spend?
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      04-21-2013, 06:29 PM   #4
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everything beyond 450 whp is playing with fire with both engine and tranny.
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      04-21-2013, 06:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErvGotti View Post
What are your power goals? What mods are you willing to do? 19PSI on the stock turbo's is no where near conservative.

Boost is just one part of the equation when it comes to tuning, so instead of targeting boost as your goal you need to find a WHP goal you'd like as a daily driver then mod from there.
Sorry i havent made it clear but of course i will not be using stock turbos.
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      04-21-2013, 06:41 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by V8bait View Post
600+ whp? With what turbos and heads at 19psi? Not stock for either, that's for sure.

You shouldn't define your goals in boost. How much power do you want reliably? How much money do you want to spend?
I would like the most i cant get without losing my engine.

Im planning on spending 10-15k for tune, modifications and a new turbo.

but what im asking is what is the most hp i can get with conservative boost and for on which turbo.
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      04-21-2013, 07:04 PM   #7
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Safe tune and 600whp don't really go hand in hand

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      04-21-2013, 07:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLF View Post
I would like the most i cant get without losing my engine.

Im planning on spending 10-15k for tune, modifications and a new turbo.

but what im asking is what is the most hp i can get with conservative boost and for on which turbo.
maybe you should look into a tune (jb4/procede/cobb etc.) and toss some e85.

maybe its as simple as that to feed your need for speed.

if you have 10-15 grand to spend for a reliable fast car, you bought the wrong car.
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      04-21-2013, 07:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Safe tune and 600whp don't really go hand in hand

Mike
I understand that the more power you get the bigger the risk. But a a lot of cars are getting close to that HP if not more, with no reported problems. they have been using their upgraded turbo for 1-2 years now with no reported problems. I would consider that as safe so far.
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      04-21-2013, 07:08 PM   #10
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If your stock right now, grab a tune (COBB or JB4 G5 ISO) and try that out. Then try some FBO mods (intercooler/DPs/etc) and see if you really want more power. You will NEED these mods if you decide to go with ANY sort of upgraded turbo application. The only difference is that the Vishnu ST/Vargas Stage 3 will have custom piping for obvious reasons, which would mean that you would not be reusing the downpipes on the ST or VS3 car. Honestly some Vargas Stage 2s or RBs would be the perfect route. A hell of a lot cheaper than Vishnu's ST, better spool for the streets, arguably will be easier on the engine than the higher HP Vishnu ST.

I feel the Vargas Stage 2s + FBO mods and NO METH would be the perfect daily driver.
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      04-21-2013, 07:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric335 View Post
If your stock right now, grab a tune (COBB or JB4 G5 ISO) and try that out. Then try some FBO mods (intercooler/DPs/etc) and see if you really want more power. Honestly some Vargas Stage 2s or RBs would be the perfect route. A hell of a lot cheaper than Vishnu's ST, better spool for the streets, arguably will be easier on the engine than the higher HP Vishnu ST.

I feel the Vargas Stage 2s + FBO mods and NO METH would be the perfect daily driver.
i emailed Vargas about 1 weeks ago about his stage 2 to see what is the expected gain with a jb4+COBB reflash. No reply
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      04-21-2013, 07:11 PM   #12
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i emailed Vargas about 1 weeks ago about his stage 2 to see what is the expected gain with a jb4+COBB reflash. No reply
Do you have the right info? Ill send him a message on 'the other forum' which he frequents and see if he got it. He is an awesome guy, so i highly doubt he would ignore it on purpose.
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      04-21-2013, 07:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLF View Post
I would like the most i cant get without losing my engine.

Im planning on spending 10-15k for tune, modifications and a new turbo.

but what im asking is what is the most hp i can get with conservative boost and for on which turbo.
maybe you should look into a tune (jb4/procede/cobb etc.) and toss some e85.

maybe its as simple as that to feed your need for speed.

if you have 10-15 grand to spend for a reliable fast car, you bought the wrong car.
+1
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      04-21-2013, 07:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
maybe you should look into a tune (jb4/procede/cobb etc.) and toss some e85.

maybe its as simple as that to feed your need for speed.

if you have 10-15 grand to spend for a reliable fast car, you bought the wrong car.
i dont know about that. an 07 335 i really cheap and with the n54 engine 15k would take you a long way.
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      04-21-2013, 07:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Eric335 View Post
Do you have the right info? Ill send him a message on 'the other forum' which he frequents and see if he got it. He is an awesome guy, so i highly doubt he would ignore it on purpose.
i was looking at the other forum and i also noticed another user told him the same thing that he sent an email and never got a response. Maybe he is having problems with his email.
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      04-21-2013, 07:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric335 View Post
If your stock right now, grab a tune (COBB or JB4 G5 ISO) and try that out. Then try some FBO mods (intercooler/DPs/etc) and see if you really want more power. You will NEED these mods if you decide to go with ANY sort of upgraded turbo application. The only difference is that the Vishnu ST/Vargas Stage 3 will have custom piping for obvious reasons, which would mean that you would not be reusing the downpipes on the ST or VS3 car. Honestly some Vargas Stage 2s or RBs would be the perfect route. A hell of a lot cheaper than Vishnu's ST, better spool for the streets, arguably will be easier on the engine than the higher HP Vishnu ST.

I feel the Vargas Stage 2s + FBO mods and NO METH would be the perfect daily driver.
Why no meth?
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      04-21-2013, 07:20 PM   #17
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Why no meth?
Personally im not a fan, especially if used in combo with E85. A lot of people like meth, but i wouldnt. It helps with IATs a lot though. Its just flammable and i would hate to be the unlucky SOB who loses an entire car due to it. I also wouldnt want to have to remember to refill it or switch maps if i run out of meth. Id buy suspension (coilovers) before i bought meth.

Oh, and i just noticed that you were an automatic. You do realize that you would probably rebuild your tranny 5x as much as your engine when running that kind of hp/tq? Thats your weakest link in your car, by far. These motors will handle 500whp fairly reliably and without much damage (example: Dzenno @ PTF. His car was torn down after like 50k miles of hard driving, highway racing, and many many drag strip runs and showed little sign of mechanical loss/wear in the actual engine).
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      04-21-2013, 07:23 PM   #18
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Why do you want a car with "as much hp as possible"? Have you driven a 500 whp car? Have you driven one with 400? At some point with every car/vehicle you can go too far and make the car so loud/stiff/powerful etc that it is not even fun to drive anymore.

Basically as everyone else has said everything beyond fbo is going to be less safe. So spend $2k (fbo depending on the parts you buy) and have a ~400 whp reliable drivable car or spend 10k+ for a screaming banshee (both in a good and bad way) and risk having to pay 10k more for engine repairs.
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      04-21-2013, 07:23 PM   #19
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Personally im not a fan, especially if used in combo with E85. A lot of people like meth, but i wouldnt. It helps with IATs a lot though. Its just flammable and i would hate to be the unlucky SOB who loses an entire car due to it. I also wouldnt want to have to remember to refill it or switch maps if i run out of meth. Id buy suspension (coilovers) before i bought meth.

Oh, and i just noticed that you were an automatic. You do realize that you would probably rebuild your tranny 5x as much as your engine when running that kind of hp/tq? Thats your weakest link in your car, by far. These motors will handle 500whp fairly reliably and without much damage (example: Dzenno @ PTF. His car was torn down after like 50k miles of hard driving, highway racing, and many many drag strip runs and showed little sign of mechanical loss/wear in the actual engine).
Yea i realize that. that is why i created this thread to check for my car what is the most HP i should be aiming for.
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      04-21-2013, 07:23 PM   #20
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Why no meth?
because is unpredictable. should be used to just cool the charge , not as fuel or octane enhancer. octane has to be provided by the injectors.

i have seen and popped an engine myself because of meth injection.

With stage 2 turbos and 93 octane with cobb you can get around 420-430 whp max. Add meth and you can get 50 whp more but than your tranny gonna start taking hits and if something goes wrong you will pop a piston .

Get an MT tranny or get an M3 and add a compressor.
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      04-21-2013, 07:23 PM   #21
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I just asked that question in another thread.

How much power can the auto tranny take and still be considered in the "safe zone"
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      04-21-2013, 07:24 PM   #22
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Why do you want a car with "as much hp as possible"? Have you driven a 500 whp car? Have you driven one with 400? At some point with every car/vehicle you can go too far and make the car so loud/stiff/powerful etc that it is not even fun to drive anymore.

Basically as everyone else has said everything beyond fbo is going to be less safe. So spend $2k (fbo depending on the parts you buy) and have a ~400 whp reliable drivable car or spend 10k+ for a screaming banshee (both in a good and bad way) and risk having to pay 10k more for engine repairs.
yes i drive my friend's GTR frequently. I have to disagree with you the more HP the more fun. But each car has its limits and as i said before conservative power is better than no power.
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