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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Mid(secondary) cats vs Resonators



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      04-22-2013, 03:04 AM   #1
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Mid(secondary) cats vs Resonators

Hello fellas,

Just a few quick questions.
How do mid resonators stack up against stock mid(secondary) cats?
Do resonators quite the car down more? less?
Is the performance better with resonators or cats?
Will resonators remove all the drone like the cats do?
Is it worth the hastle performance wise to switch to resonators?

Pitch in.

Thanks
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      04-22-2013, 09:51 AM   #2
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It doesn't reduce drone much but it does remove rasp.

You will feel an improvement in throttle response and your butt dyno may improve slightly.

The loudness wont change much. Slightly deeper down low.

Less restrictions is always good for turbos
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      04-22-2013, 10:27 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick335 View Post
Hello fellas,

Just a few quick questions.
How do mid resonators stack up against stock mid(secondary) cats?
Do resonators quite the car down more? less?
Is the performance better with resonators or cats?
Will resonators remove all the drone like the cats do?
Is it worth the hastle performance wise to switch to resonators?

Pitch in.

Thanks
Please keep in mind that I'm talking about my car, so there are sleight differences, but the parts involved are similar and the overall tone is going to be very similar coming from the identical motor. I swapped from the OE N54 mids to Berk resonated/catless mids, I observed the following. Close to no rasp until you clear 4-5K revs under heavy load, personally I'd welcome a bit more rasp, but that's just me. It cut down on drone a good bit, esp. in 6th. The Berks didn't add much volume at all, but refined the tone, more aggressive and less drony/boomy. I noticed better throttle tip in response, but I have no dyno sheet to confirm. IIRC Berk claimed 10 or so whp switching out the midpipes, that sounds optimistic but I'd believe +10whp in conjunction with a better flowing axle back (E8x mufflers are quite restrictive, even that far downstream). I wouldn't do this for power, but IMO resonators are a worthy addition on a car with an aggressive exhaust setup. They mellow out the rasp and drone, while making the overall tone more aggressive and refined. Sometimes I think about going full retard with GThaus straight piped mids, but overall i'm very happy with the resonated Berks. My exhaust is in sig below, obviously my experiences are subjective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggz View Post
It doesn't reduce drone much but it does remove rasp.

You will feel an improvement in throttle response and your butt dyno may improve slightly.

The loudness wont change much. Slightly deeper down low.

Less restrictions is always good for turbos
Id agree with this, generally.
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      04-22-2013, 10:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
Please keep in mind that I'm talking about my car, so there are sleight differences, but the parts involved are similar and the overall tone is going to be very similar coming from the identical motor. I swapped from the OE N54 mids to Berk resonated/catless mids, I observed the following. Close to no rasp until you clear 4-5K revs under heavy load, personally I'd welcome a bit more rasp, but that's just me. It cut down on drone a good bit, esp. in 6th. The Berks didn't add much volume at all, but refined the tone, more aggressive and less drony/boomy. I noticed better throttle tip in response, but I have no dyno sheet to confirm. IIRC Berk claimed 10 or so whp switching out the midpipes, that sounds optimistic but I'd believe +10whp in conjunction with a better flowing axle back (E8x mufflers are quite restrictive, even that far downstream). I wouldn't do this for power, but IMO resonators are a worthy addition on a car with an aggressive exhaust setup. They mellow out the rasp and drone, while making the overall tone more aggressive and refined. Sometimes I think about going full retard with GThaus straight piped mids, but overall i'm very happy with the resonated Berks. My exhaust is in sig below, obviously my experiences are subjective.


Id agree with this, generally.
Berk doesnt seem to have any for 335s. Gonna do some research and hunt a pair down. At my power level i probably am missing abour 10-15whp with my mid cats
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      04-22-2013, 11:22 AM   #5
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Has anyone installed the Vibrant Resonators found on HPF website?
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      04-22-2013, 12:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sick335 View Post
Has anyone installed the Vibrant Resonators found on HPF website?
The vibrant resonators you need are #1792.

Yes I have them.
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      04-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick335 View Post
Has anyone installed the Vibrant Resonators found on HPF website?
a lot of people are running those, i'm about to get a pair too
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      04-22-2013, 01:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick335 View Post
Berk doesnt seem to have any for 335s. Gonna do some research and hunt a pair down. At my power level i probably am missing abour 10-15whp with my mid cats

At fbo level stock turbos secondary cats are 10-15whp. With RB turbos and 20+ psi I bet its closer to 20whp.

Removing secondary cats will make the car louder, especially at cold start. It will also be more smelly, and possibilty for you to actually notice smoke coming out if the turbos are bad.

Resonators will help with rasp and loudness. Muffler mainly for drone and changing tone of the exhaust.

Btw the gains from removing secondary cats will be noticeable above 4k rpm, not below.
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      04-22-2013, 02:02 PM   #9
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I have had my mid cats removed before, and replaced with straight pipe. The drone was unbearable, the smell was even worse. Will having resonators take care of both the problems?
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      04-22-2013, 02:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I have had my mid cats removed before, and replaced with straight pipe. The drone was unbearable, the smell was even worse. Will having resonators take care of both the problems?
Nope
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      04-22-2013, 03:17 PM   #11
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I believe the smell is mostly unburnt fuel....

I remember x pipes help with sound, possibly find a race muffler to fix drone
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      04-22-2013, 04:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SfValley335i View Post
I believe the smell is mostly unburnt fuel....

I remember x pipes help with sound, possibly find a race muffler to fix drone
100% agree on that, Eisenmann, BMWP, Meisterschaft, etc make "race" axle backs that still retain a muffler so the drone isn't out of control.

The smell/smoke is usually a combo of unburnt fuel and oil blowing by, the oil blowby could come from numerous things on an N54. That is, unless coolant is burning off, in which case you have a more severe issue to deal with. Either way, resonators won't help you there.
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