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      03-07-2014, 05:50 PM   #1
tony20009
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Fake Watches -- Does it really matter?

Every so often I find folks having conniptions over or poking fun at folks who wear fake watches. I don't really care if someone wears a fake watch; that's their business. I don't care if they knowingly represent a fake watch they are wearing (not selling) as an authentic one; that's their insecurity issue not mine. If someone willfully shares with me that their watch is fake, I usually just tell them it looks nice and maybe I'll ask them if it keeps good time. I do have a sympathy for folks who get scammed into buying a fake they believe to be authentic. But that's an entirely different matter.

The short is that someone else's fake watch has no real, direct impact on my ability to enjoy my own authentic ones. Yes, yes, I'm aware of the impact fakes have on the costs "authentic" makers incur to defend their trademarks, but if IMO, such assertions of increased cost often are bogus, or if not bogus, red herrings. Those very same authentic makers have plenty of internal inefficiencies they could address to more than make up for the trademark defense costs. Moreover, they spend more resources battling makers of watches that are "similar" rather than clearly fake.

For example, AP recently sued (and won) the maker of a watch that is clearly not an AP RO fake. The "offending" watch was a $300 or so watch that had a similar screw pattern and bezel shape, but the watch is labeled with that other maker's name/logo on the dial. This is what RO did despite the fact that as far as I know, they've not brought suit against one company making watches that are clearly fake ROs and have the AP name/logo on the dial. When I learn things like that, I can't help but wonder how much the issue of "fakes" really matters to the makers. I mean after all, nobody buying a $25 fake AP, or even a $500 one, is even likely to be considering buying a $15K+ authentic one, so there's no reasonable way to make a case for a direct loss of sales revenue due to fakes.

I have had folks who were at my home for social gatherings ask me if some of my art is real, but I've never had inquiries about my watches. Even so, watches, art, furniture, whatever, I don't take well to folks coming into my home and asking me questions of that nature, and I made it very clear to those individuals that with those questions they'd worn out their welcome. This is about how the conversation went.
They: Is that real?
Me: Do you think it's real?
They: Um, yes, it looks real to me.
Me: Would you know the difference if I told you it isn't real?
They: No.
Me: Then how would I know the difference? And why do you care? (before they could answer) You'll pardon me now, won't you?
They: Yes, of course.
Me: Thank you so much. I need to go see if the grass is still growing. Enjoy the rest of your stay.
I didn't see the offending parties leave my home, but I know I didn't see them mingling and chatting with other guests for long after that conversation. (To their credit, the cads at least had the integrity not to make such inquiries behind my back. That would have been worse IMO and upon learning of it, I'd have taken stronger action (not physical) than just letting them know they'd worn out their welcome.)

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with my self image, the items in question or anything else tangible. It has to do with the fact that it's just rude, it's crass; and it's plebeian to ask that sort of thing. It's none of their business; they either like the decor or they don't. I'm just fine either way in that sense; I'm not asking anyone to like my stuff as it's there for my enjoyment not theirs. It's the same with watches. One either likes the look/style a person exhibits or one doesn't.

So what is your view on the matter of fake watches?

All the best.
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      03-07-2014, 06:01 PM   #2
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I guess as long as it's fake and they know it's fake it is fine.

I have a few "replica" watches that were fun to have. They are things I would not pay for if it were real but fun to wear and beat around in. Most are pretty good copies, you would not be able to tell the difference unless you took it off the wrist. It's just fun, almost disposable stuff. $50 for Rolex? Sure, why not. Just throw it away when you're tired of it.
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      03-07-2014, 06:24 PM   #3
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Where do you find reputable online sellers of replica watches? I own a couple of Omegas but don't like wearing them everyday, I much rather beat up a $100 rep for day to day use
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      03-07-2014, 06:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Every so often I find folks having conniptions over or poking fun at folks who wear fake watches. I don't really care if someone wears a fake watch; that's their business. I don't care if they knowingly represent a fake watch they are wearing (not selling) as an authentic one; that's their insecurity issue not mine. If someone willfully shares with me that their watch is fake, I usually just tell them it looks nice and maybe I'll ask them if it keeps good time. I do have a sympathy for folks who get scammed into buying a fake they believe to be authentic. But that's an entirely different matter.

The short is that someone else's fake watch has no real, direct impact on my ability to enjoy my own authentic ones. Yes, yes, I'm aware of the impact fakes have on the costs "authentic" makers incur to defend their trademarks, but if IMO, such assertions of increased cost often are bogus, or if not bogus, red herrings. Those very same authentic makers have plenty of internal inefficiencies they could address to more than make up for the trademark defense costs. Moreover, they spend more resources battling makers of watches that are "similar" rather than clearly fake.

For example, AP recently sued (and won) the maker of a watch that is clearly not an AP RO fake. The "offending" watch was a $300 or so watch that had a similar screw pattern and bezel shape, but the watch is labeled with that other maker's name/logo on the dial. This is what RO did despite the fact that as far as I know, they've not brought suit against one company making watches that are clearly fake ROs and have the AP name/logo on the dial. When I learn things like that, I can't help but wonder how much the issue of "fakes" really matters to the makers. I mean after all, nobody buying a $25 fake AP, or even a $500 one, is even likely to be considering buying a $15K+ authentic one, so there's no reasonable way to make a case for a direct loss of sales revenue due to fakes.

I have had folks who were at my home for social gatherings ask me if some of my art is real, but I've never had inquiries about my watches. Even so, watches, art, furniture, whatever, I don't take well to folks coming into my home and asking me questions of that nature, and I made it very clear to those individuals that with those questions they'd worn out their welcome. This is about how the conversation went.
They: Is that real?
Me: Do you think it's real?
They: Um, yes, it looks real to me.
Me: Would you know the difference if I told you it isn't real?
They: No.
Me: Then how would I know the difference? And why do you care? (before they could answer) You'll pardon me now, won't you?
They: Yes, of course.
Me: Thank you so much. I need to go see if the grass is still growing. Enjoy the rest of your stay.
I didn't see the offending parties leave my home, but I know I didn't see them mingling and chatting with other guests for long after that conversation. (To their credit, the cads at least had the integrity not to make such inquiries behind my back. That would have been worse IMO and upon learning of it, I'd have taken stronger action (not physical) than just letting them know they'd worn out their welcome.)

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with my self image, the items in question or anything else tangible. It has to do with the fact that it's just rude, it's crass; and it's plebeian to ask that sort of thing. It's none of their business; they either like the decor or they don't. I'm just fine either way in that sense; I'm not asking anyone to like my stuff as it's there for my enjoyment not theirs. It's the same with watches. One either likes the look/style a person exhibits or one doesn't.

So what is your view on the matter of fake watches?

All the best.
Enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject, Tony. I'm with you for the most part... I couldn't care less when someone wears a replica. My take on it is that they like the look of the watch, but can't (or choose not to) afford it. I don't find that offensive at all.
For me though, choosing a watch is about so much more than just the superficial look, and the perceived cache of the brand. I'm interested in the maker, the movement, the company's history - not to mention the complications and technology that are incorporated. But I completely understand and accept that to many others, this level of interest and intrigue are not a factor at all.

As for being asked if I own a fake (be it a watch, or anything else), I could see being offended under some circumstances... like if I detect an attitude, or a patronizing or condescending tone, for example. But short of that, not everyone is a watch or art aficionado. I'd probably just chalk it up to their lack of understanding or appreciation of such extravagances, and trying to connect the dots in their head to make sense of it (as opposed to an insinuation of some sort of inadequacy on my part); this by itself wouldn't upset me, as everyone has their own priorities.
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      03-07-2014, 06:43 PM   #5
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Being fairly new to BMW would someone care to explain to me the big deal about watches and the BMW/watch connection? I see more threads on watches than anything else.
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      03-07-2014, 06:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8k3 View Post
Where do you find reputable online sellers of replica watches? I own a couple of Omegas but don't like wearing them everyday, I much rather beat up a $100 rep for day to day use
I have no idea. I purchased the few I have on a trip to Thailand about 15 years ago with some friends. Back then being fresh out of college and relatively broke, it was just nice to have a cool looking watch for cheap. They were all quartz movement and questionable quality but looked fine.
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      03-07-2014, 07:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
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I guess as long as it's fake and they know it's fake it is fine.

I have a few "replica" watches that were fun to have. They are things I would not pay for if it were real but fun to wear and beat around in. Most are pretty good copies, you would not be able to tell the difference unless you took it off the wrist. It's just fun, almost disposable stuff. $50 for Rolex? Sure, why not. Just throw it away when you're tired of it.
would you own and drive a fake M3?....I rest my case!
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      03-07-2014, 07:01 PM   #8
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I'd be more proud to wear an authentic Timex than a fake high quality Patek Phillippe any day. That's just me. But I will admit to owning an unsigned and unauthentic Mark Ryden painting that my reproduction artist friend painted for me. I was too cheap to shell out $125k for the original and looking at it's oddness makes me happy.
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      03-07-2014, 07:08 PM   #9
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would you own and drive a fake M3?....I rest my case!
Yeah, but I am a car enthusiast, not a watch enthusiast. More money for track days and tires for me!

Also, as I mentioned in my 2nd post, I was a broke college grad at the time I purchased the replicas... I could care less if it was fake.
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      03-07-2014, 07:13 PM   #10
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As long as the person isn't running around telling people that it's real then I really don't mind. I do laugh a little when I see some kid bagging groceries with a rep of a $20k AP though.
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      03-07-2014, 07:20 PM   #11
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I wear a fake Hermes belt and own an authentic Breguet Marine. What does that make me?

I have friends who own fake APs and drive 100k+ cars.

I don't own a fake watch, but I don't bash on people who do. Everybody's priorities are different.
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      03-07-2014, 07:34 PM   #12
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I got a fake Omega from Egypt last month for 40 and a Breitling for 70. They look great but i don't hide the fact they are fake if someone asks me. They are usually pretty interested and want to have a closer look.

Personally i think alot of big companies are more than happy to rip people off by overcharging for goods and services, and im not just talking about watch makers. So personally i couldn't care less about hitting them in the wallet every now and then.

Just my two pence.
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      03-07-2014, 07:36 PM   #13
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My wife picked me up a watch in China...I had to take the band off to tell it was fake (missing SN)...for what she paid and how it looked, I thought it may have been hot.

That fake holds time, takes a licking and keeps on, well, swiping...that's all that matters to me.
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      03-07-2014, 07:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafkaesque320 View Post
Being fairly new to BMW would someone care to explain to me the big deal about watches and the BMW/watch connection? I see more threads on watches than anything else.
Interesting. It doesn't surprise me at all that there's a watch thread on this forum. But my wife thinks it's weird. She doesn't get the connection, I guess. Maybe people who like nice, expensive cars also like nice, expensive watches and enjoy talking about them? It can't be a coincidence that there's a lot of forum members who also have watch collections.
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      03-07-2014, 07:45 PM   #15
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It doesn't surprise me either, but there seems to be more of a BMW/watch thing than with other makes of vehicles
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      03-07-2014, 07:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
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It doesn't surprise me either, but there seems to be more of a BMW/watch thing than with other makes of vehicles
Got it. I haven't been on any other forums that aren't BMW.
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      03-07-2014, 08:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8k3 View Post
Where do you find reputable online sellers of replica watches? I own a couple of Omegas but don't like wearing them everyday, I much rather beat up a $100 rep for day to day use
I have no idea. You'd have to check the watch forums that exist for folks keen on fakes.

If you go to Hong Kong, and have a visa allowing you entry to the PRC, I can tell you where to go and get really good quality fakes for $25-$50.

The city to go to is Shenzhen and the area you want to check out is Luohu. There, you'll find "shopping buildings" which are huge, multi-story buildings that have literally thousands of ateliers of folks making fake everything along with stuff of their own invention. You'll also find some really good tailors there who can make you some sweet shirts. (They make good suits too, but I doubt as a vacationer you'll be there long enough to wait for them to finish it.)

There is a pseudo-company called Parnis who make what are essentially fake Rolexes and Panerais, but they put the Parnis name on them. (they replicate other brands' styles too) They do sell via the WWW. I must be clear, however, that I've never bought anything from them and I haven't ever seen one in person. I just know of their existence. The popular watch forums have members who have bought things from Parnis and you can probably find some good info there.

I also have to say that I've never ordered a replica watch over the WWW and I don't know what Customs issues you may face if they are shipped from outside the U.S. Any risk in that regard -- Customs will seize things that they think are fraudulent goods -- is on you. You aren't likely to encounter a problem like that if you just go to China and buy one or two for yourself. At the prices you'll pay, you won't have to declare them and if you don't have a whole damn suitcase full of watches, you aren't going to pique Customs' interest when they x-ray your bags.

If you want a $100 beater, and a trip to the PRC isn't in your future, my advice would be to just buy some $100 watch that catches your fancy.

Sidebar Thought:
FWIW, the most expensive thing about going to the PRC is the plane ticket, that is unless you just feel obliged to spend huge sums on other things. That's a real risk. I went to the Versace boutique in one of their high end malls and bought ten items -- pants, jeans, jackets, shirts -- for the equivalent of $680 USD, but rest assured that same store had plenty of stuff that cost $600+ each. I also bought a Dunhill coat for $90 (regular price $900). So you see the risk isn't that you'll buy something that's too pricey. It's that you'll find the bargains irresistible.

When the Chinese folks are of a mind to put something on sale, they aren't playing. They mark it down...way down. I guess they really want it gone at that point. That makes the PRC a really good place to buy authentic RTW goods. Now electronics, you don't want to buy there unless you are buying the fake stuff or the the native Chinese brands.

There are plenty of Chines hotels that are on the order of a Residence Inn or Fairfield Inn and that will run you about $15/night. You can eat really well for $10/meal and like a king for $40. You can also go cheap and have something like grilled chicken leg and thigh, grilled corn on the cob, grilled mushrooms and green beans along with fresh, handmade pasta with lamb, beef, chicken or pork and some veggies for $4. That cheap meal is fresh, tasty and healthier than something you'd find in the U.S for about $18-$22.

All the best.
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      03-07-2014, 08:20 PM   #18
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maybe the corvette forums talk more about gold chains? sorry w00tw00t!
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      03-07-2014, 08:37 PM   #19
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maybe the corvette forums talk more about gold chains? sorry w00tw00t!
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      03-07-2014, 08:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Got it. I haven't been on any other forums that aren't BMW.
It may have something to do with Ball making BMW branded watches. (http://www.ballwatch.com/bmw/index.p...com_theproject) BMW also partners with Tourneau to have watches made.

Another popular watch brand, Breitling, has a partnership with Bentley, but then I'm not hanging out on Bentley forums either, so I don't know what goes on over there. (http://www.breitlingforbentley.com/en/)

In truth, I suppose all the major, upscale car brands have some sort of arrangement whereby the car brand licenses its name to watchmakers or vice versa. (http://www.beautifullife.info/fashio...s-auto-brands/) MB is partnered with Graham, which itself has obtained movements from La Joux Perret (http://www.lajouxperret.com/), which itself is a wholy-owned subsidiary of Citizen, which also owns Miyota. Graham has also received movements from Arnold & Son/Christopher Claret, most notably for the celestial tourbillion watch both companies produced some years back. (The A&S version is called the Grand Moon Tourbillion -- http://www.watchtime.com/watch-datab...llon/rose-gold -- and got a lot less press, but A&S does make it's own movements and Graham does not.)

Why the connection? Well, it's another revenue source. There is a lot of similarity in how cars and pricey watches are marketed and there's a lot of similarity in the substance of both products. Namely that both premium brand cars and premium brand watches don't, better than the more typical, less expensive alternatives, really do anything the typical user needs the product to do. To that end, there's a lot of similarity and synergy in their respective business models.

All the best.
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      03-07-2014, 08:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
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would you own and drive a fake M3?....I rest my case!
Is it possible even to do such a thing? I suspect the answer for anyone is "no" because there are no makers producing and selling fake M3s.

I could be wrong though. What fake M3 car makers have you come across?

It's nice to say what one would/woudn't do in theory, but lacking a real opportunity to do so, the M3 comparison you make is dramatically different from that of watches in one very palpable way: people can and do buy mass produced, fake watches.

All the best.
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      03-07-2014, 08:59 PM   #22
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i have a fake panerai and tag grand carrera and wear them occasionally. my intent isnt to pass them off as real. i also have rolex and others that are real, at some point i may or may not buy the real thing. owning the grand carrera has led me to not want one and the panerai i do want as i like the look.
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