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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Why can't I have more horsepower?



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      04-24-2013, 01:15 AM   #1
alexwhittemore
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Why can't I have more horsepower?

Pardon the inflammatory title, I'm legitimately just curious. There are a bunch of different N52 variations, Wikipedia lists 218, 230, 258, 265, and 272hp versions. For example, the Z4 3.0si is still an n52, but it's the 265hp version, while my 328i is the 230hp version, while the X3 3.0si gets the 272hp version.

My question is, what are the differences between them and what's stopping me from modifying my engine as assembled in my car to be the 272hp version from an X3?

wikipedia offers the vague and un-cited
Quote:
output changes result from the omission of the variable resonance system, dual plenum intake runner system, and the variable back pressure muffler
The first bit seems to refer to DISA - is that to say that my 2009 328 doesn't have a DISA enabled manifold? Could I bolt one on and code? Would that require a new engine controller taken off, perhaps, an x3? What are the other bits? where does the fact that my engine is actually an N51 fit in - what are the differences?

I guess what I'm asking is, if there are like 5 different N52 variations all the way up to 272hp, why is it that everyone seems to claim that 'modding an n52 is nigh on impossible' and 'no matter what you do you'll never get more power out of it'?

Not to say that I'm considering anything, I'm quite pleased with my current power. But I'm curious.

Edit: I did just find this: so that explains the 3 stage manifold mods. But when someone says 3stage manifold, does that imply DISA as well?
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      04-24-2013, 02:08 AM   #2
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A little bit more searching won't hurt, you have about 4 more post underneath yours giving specific detail about the 3 stage manifold and tune. I dont mean to crash your post but there is a lot of them already open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexwhittemore View Post
Pardon the inflammatory title, I'm legitimately just curious. There are a bunch of different N52 variations, Wikipedia lists 218, 230, 258, 265, and 272hp versions. For example, the Z4 3.0si is still an n52, but it's the 265hp version, while my 328i is the 230hp version, while the X3 3.0si gets the 272hp version.

My question is, what are the differences between them and what's stopping me from modifying my engine as assembled in my car to be the 272hp version from an X3?

wikipedia offers the vague and un-cited


The first bit seems to refer to DISA - is that to say that my 2009 328 doesn't have a DISA enabled manifold? Could I bolt one on and code? Would that require a new engine controller taken off, perhaps, an x3? What are the other bits? where does the fact that my engine is actually an N51 fit in - what are the differences?

I guess what I'm asking is, if there are like 5 different N52 variations all the way up to 272hp, why is it that everyone seems to claim that 'modding an n52 is nigh on impossible' and 'no matter what you do you'll never get more power out of it'?

Not to say that I'm considering anything, I'm quite pleased with my current power. But I'm curious.

Edit: I did just find this: so that explains the 3 stage manifold mods. But when someone says 3stage manifold, does that imply DISA as well?
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      04-24-2013, 02:22 AM   #3
alexwhittemore
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Although that's not the only thing I'm asking about, as far as I know.
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      04-24-2013, 07:46 AM   #4
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you already found ur anwswer on wiki, mix combination of intake n exhaust part n w matching tune created those differernt power out put.

n51 does already came with disa, but w detuned dme software n slightly less comprision.
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      04-24-2013, 09:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc5988 View Post
you already found ur anwswer on wiki, mix combination of intake n exhaust part n w matching tune created those differernt power out put.

n51 does already came with disa, but w detuned dme software n slightly less comprision.
+1

All bmw did was play with the intake tune and exhaust's between the n52 lines.
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      04-24-2013, 09:48 AM   #6
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Get a 3 stage manifold, exhaust and a tune. You'll be right up there around 260 crank.
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      04-24-2013, 11:50 AM   #7
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      04-24-2013, 11:52 AM   #8
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      04-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #9
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So wait, what are the exact differences between the X3 3.0si's engine and ours? It seems like for us to get near 270 we need the 3 stage manifold and then a performance tune, exhaust, intake, and all the works as far as that goes.

Could it be that the X3's engine is already tuned as much as possible? What if I took a 272hp X3 and then modded it and put a tune on it?
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      04-24-2013, 02:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by inline6ix View Post
So wait, what are the exact differences between the X3 3.0si's engine and ours? It seems like for us to get near 270 we need the 3 stage manifold and then a performance tune, exhaust, intake, and all the works as far as that goes.

Could it be that the X3's engine is already tuned as much as possible? What if I took a 272hp X3 and then modded it and put a tune on it?
X3 and Z4 has twin pipe leading to muffler, our only go single one after the mid resonator, also intake design are different then ours.

Euro 272hp probably is same as our 265hp version, DIN power rating are slightly higher then SAE. also they dont have secondary cat.
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      04-24-2013, 10:41 PM   #11
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As others have said, it's not that n52's are impossible to tune: throw a euro intake, a second cat delete and race exhaust, a 3 stage manifold, and a tune in their and you're sitting on 275-ish hp at the crank. Put on a new pair of headers and you're looking at closer to 285. However, all of these mods together add up to more than 2 grand and you still don't have the potential that you would if you got a 335, for instance. An n54 engine you can mod so much and get so much more power out of it because you can upgrade the turbo parts. Unfortunately, our 328's don't have that potential, at least not until Gavin finishes that supercharger--but that's a whole other story.
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      04-24-2013, 10:49 PM   #12
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N51 has DISA, check what engine you have

N52 comes in all flavours with dme/ecu chnage in 2007, and also I think SAE is now used to measure HP level vs somethign else.
So euro 130i 330i 2006 makes 265 vs 255 for 2007 euro 130i 330i ( all of them have DISA)

ECU tuning is really the key, more so than secondary cats in the exhaust(removing helps too, but perhaps it is good to keep them if you get headers)

Euro ECU mappers push the n52 to 280 hp, mostly fore pre 2007 n52's. 2007+ seem to top out at 275. Only UK mappers , from what i know, offer remote tuning, hense why i tried the Evolve. Hope to dyno soon and ask them to retune/edit the tune
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      04-24-2013, 11:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
N51 has DISA, check what engine you have

N52 comes in all flavours with dme/ecu chnage in 2007, and also I think SAE is now used to measure HP level vs somethign else.
So euro 130i 330i 2006 makes 265 vs 255 for 2007 euro 130i 330i ( all of them have DISA)

ECU tuning is really the key, more so than secondary cats in the exhaust(removing helps too, but perhaps it is good to keep them if you get headers)

Euro ECU mappers push the n52 to 280 hp, mostly fore pre 2007 n52's. 2007+ seem to top out at 275. Only UK mappers , from what i know, offer remote tuning, hense why i tried the Evolve. Hope to dyno soon and ask them to retune/edit the tune
Would like to see those numbers, I got the N51 so that is DISAed and it has the 3IM too I take it? I'm definitely opting for a dedicated dyno tune once I do power train and exhaust.
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      04-25-2013, 12:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Would like to see those numbers, I got the N51 so that is DISAed and it has the 3IM too I take it? I'm definitely opting for a dedicated dyno tune once I do power train and exhaust.
Just do what I did today.
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      04-25-2013, 12:13 AM   #15
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Just do what I did today.
What are you gains? LOL!
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      04-25-2013, 12:18 AM   #16
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What are you gains? LOL!
A pissed off wife haha. Dyno I'll find out in a week or 2. This set up is ridiculously boomy.
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      04-25-2013, 12:23 AM   #17
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A pissed off wife haha. Dyno I'll find out in a week or 2. This set up is ridiculously boomy.
LOL, well where I stand is that it's a BMW and it still needs to be classy so I don't think I'll do a full-on delete like that LOL!
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      04-25-2013, 12:47 AM   #18
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LOL, well where I stand is that it's a BMW and it still needs to be classy so I don't think I'll do a full-on delete like that LOL!
Nah I'll be adding titanium burnt tips to it.
Here's your other dream set up
Eisenmann just chillin'
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      04-25-2013, 12:48 AM   #19
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Nah I'll be adding titanium burnt tips to it.
Here's your other dream set up
Eisenmann just chillin'
Ahahaha! Must hold off on that for now. Gotta do a bunch of other stuff before working on the fart pipes.
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      04-25-2013, 01:31 AM   #20
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Nah I'll be adding titanium burnt tips to it.
Here's your other dream set up
Eisenmann just chillin'

I'm but what CSL style trunk boot do you have? Any more pics?
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      04-25-2013, 02:41 AM   #21
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I'm but what CSL style trunk boot do you have? Any more pics?
it's a ad-on I've seen one on e92-lighting.com, I think I've seen some on eBay too.
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      04-25-2013, 10:29 AM   #22
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Sorry to thread jack OP, I'm trying to set up my car too to find baseline dyno's soon.
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Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
Ahahaha! Must hold off on that for now. Gotta do a bunch of other stuff before working on the fart pipes.
Word, if I ever sell this complete set it's going for $1400 though.
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I'm but what CSL style trunk boot do you have? Any more pics?
I bought it with the car, my buddies say the kick is just as high as karbonwerke but whoever installed mine sucks.
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it's a ad-on I've seen one on e92-lighting.com, I think I've seen some on eBay too.
Yep
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