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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wheels and Tires Forum Sponsored by The Tire Rack > Issues running a 10mm spacer with out a hub lip?!?



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      04-24-2013, 11:59 AM   #1
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Issues running a 10mm spacer with out a hub lip?!?

I just bought a pair of 10 mm spacers for my rear tires but when they arrived they didn't have an extended lip. I though all spacers needed to have this lip so lateral forces are transferred directly to the hub instead of letting the bolts/studs take the force. Doing some homework it looks like 12mm is the smallest spacer you can get that comes with this extended lip. Does that mean I shouldn't run these spacers?
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      04-24-2013, 12:25 PM   #2
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I personally wouldnt run them as you run the extra force against the bolts. Which in tern can snap a bolt and or allow for play which could cause vibration.
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      04-24-2013, 01:31 PM   #3
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You have a few options.

1.) Size down your spacer to expose the existing hub
2.) Size up the spacer so it will have a machined hub
3.) Stud conversion and use the existing spacers

I wouldn't bother trying to install the spacers if they don't have that lip on them. Your wheels are not going to be centered properly, which will cause vibrations, or worse.
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      04-24-2013, 01:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMRWheels View Post
You have a few options.

1.) Size down your spacer to expose the existing hub
2.) Size up the spacer so it will have a machined hub
3.) Stud conversion and use the existing spacers

I wouldn't bother trying to install the spacers if they don't have that lip on them. Your wheels are not going to be centered properly, which will cause vibrations, or worse.
I got the spacers with a stud conversion kit. Can you explain why a stud kit negates the need for an extended lip on the hub?
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      04-24-2013, 02:14 PM   #5
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You can run spacers without hubs. You just have to make sure that the force(s) clamping down on the hub surface and the back of the wheel is applied evenly. Instead of tightening straight to 88 ft-lbs, tighten the lug bolts in a star pattern to ~40lbs, then to 65lbs, then to 88lbs. It's a little bit more involved, but once tightened, the lug bolts will center the wheel because of the conical shape of the base of the bolts, and especially since the wheels are in the rear, you shouldn't experience any vibration.

Once tightened, the only thing experiencing any sheer force should just be the threads on the bolts (which would be the same with or without hub extenders for the wheel to sit on) and the conical surface that mates to the wheels. When installed and tightened properly, a 10mm spacer isn't in any more danger of chopping the lug bolts off than a 15mm with hub extenders.
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      04-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Once tightened, the only thing experiencing any sheer force should just be the threads on the bolts (which would be the same with or without hub extenders for the wheel to sit on) and the conical surface that mates to the wheels. When installed and tightened properly, a 10mm spacer isn't in any more danger of chopping the lug bolts off than a 15mm with hub extenders.
I would have thought that the hub lip would help add strength to resist lateral forces but you mention it has no added effect. Care to explain?
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      04-24-2013, 04:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
I would have thought that the hub lip would help add strength to resist lateral forces but you mention it has no added effect. Care to explain?
Once tightened, the ONLY thing supplying any sort of force are the conical surface of the lug bolts and its associated mating surface of the wheel, and the threads engaged in the hub.

I once took a car with a hub size of 57.1mm, put on wheels with hub bore of 64.1mm SANS centering rings, and an 8mm spacer to Sears Point. IF the hub lip is integral or added any strength to resist lateral forces I would have been in a wall. There was a 3.5mm space between the hub "lip" and the wheel bore, plus a spacer in between on all 4 wheels.

Trust me. The extender on the hub is mainly to allow you to center the wheel so you can easily bolt on lug bolts. Once properly tightened, the hub lip experiences nearly ZERO road force. The problem here, of course, is without said centering of the wheel, there's no way to know for sure if your bolts are experiencing any sheer force while being tightened. That's why you have to tighten it half of the way first, then another half of the way, then all the way to 88 ft-lbs so the bolts will have a chance to properly and gradually center the wheels.
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      04-24-2013, 05:00 PM   #8
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THE HACK very good info. Alot of people don't really realize the true facts of spacers and the hubcentric rings.

Adam I explained everything in my email please check it and let me know what you want to do.

Thanks
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      04-24-2013, 10:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Once tightened, the ONLY thing supplying any sort of force are the conical surface of the lug bolts and its associated mating surface of the wheel, and the threads engaged in the hub.

I once took a car with a hub size of 57.1mm, put on wheels with hub bore of 64.1mm SANS centering rings, and an 8mm spacer to Sears Point. IF the hub lip is integral or added any strength to resist lateral forces I would have been in a wall. There was a 3.5mm space between the hub "lip" and the wheel bore, plus a spacer in between on all 4 wheels.

Trust me. The extender on the hub is mainly to allow you to center the wheel so you can easily bolt on lug bolts. Once properly tightened, the hub lip experiences nearly ZERO road force. The problem here, of course, is without said centering of the wheel, there's no way to know for sure if your bolts are experiencing any sheer force while being tightened. That's why you have to tighten it half of the way first, then another half of the way, then all the way to 88 ft-lbs so the bolts will have a chance to properly and gradually center the wheels.
Thanks for the concise info!! I just finished installing everything and followed your advice, haven't had the chance to take it out but I now feel confident that everything will be good to go!

And if anyone wants some hookups on spacers, lugs and studs PM Project335i! He is great to work with and knows his stuff, very attentive too with quick responses to emails!
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      04-24-2013, 11:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
Thanks for the concise info!! I just finished installing everything and followed your advice, haven't had the chance to take it out but I now feel confident that everything will be good to go!

And if anyone wants some hookups on spacers, lugs and studs PM Project335i! He is great to work with and knows his stuff, very attentive too with quick responses to emails!
Thanks Adam I really appreciate the kind words I am glad you are now happy and don't have any concerns.

As for the 82mm instead of the 75mm, was I right when saying they would protrude equally as the 90mm you are running in the rear. My offer still stands on everything we talked about via email
Post pics of everything in my thread so others can see. Thanks

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=821293

And also for us locals as well.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=821278
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      04-24-2013, 11:38 PM   #11
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Oh and anyone needing studs converison kits or spacers feel free to PM me for quotes

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