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      05-06-2013, 03:39 AM   #45
Thurman Murch
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I went from F10 M5 back to E9X M3 enough said

I went from a very powerful and luxurious boat back to surgical precision

While I do believe each successive generation does improve I think the market crash of 2008 woke up all facets of business to focus on the bottom line hence quicker LCIs and steel over aluminum etc

It's like you have to spend more to get the level of the previous

I do think there are some improvements in the F3X but think that BMW focused on the wrong ones I feel it's trying to recoup lost money in this generation

I have hope for the F8X and F22M but feel BMW stepped back a notch in some ways and others leaped forward

I do admire BMW engineering prowess and would like to se it get back to its roots but understand current economy and saving resources and stringent Euro standards
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      05-06-2013, 09:19 AM   #46
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In my opinion, I think manufacturers of all sorts hit a plateau, then they ride it for a time while in the background they're pounding their heads against their desks thinking of something new and innovative. We as enthusiasts and not just consumers love to see new stuff one right after the other. Unfortunately it doesn't happen that way. BMW won't tank anytime soon, even when these "4-bangers" hit the streets and then one of these days, they'll offer up something new that will wow us and make our wallets cry! It's just a matter of time.
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      05-13-2013, 09:05 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Today, BMW can't even decisively win a comparo with their brand new F30.
Another example of a CLEAR win for the F30 against the competition, key is-the 328 does a good job of waving the BMW flag.

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html
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      05-13-2013, 09:39 AM   #48
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AOL is a creditable news source? I know car magazines aren't exactly Pulitzer quality, but pulling Edmunds in to defend something is a bit of a stretch.
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      05-13-2013, 11:34 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
AOL is a creditable news source? I know car magazines aren't exactly Pulitzer quality, but pulling Edmunds in to defend something is a bit of a stretch.
Really? You are entitled to your opinion.

Edmunds is one of the better sources out there, they do proper track testing, dyno, and give reasonable opinion that does not reek of bias.

My daily check includes: C&D, Motortend, Edmunds/Insideline, and Autoblog.
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      05-13-2013, 11:42 AM   #50
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I like them, and try to ignore the AOL connection, but they are a tertiary news source (I also liked them more when Inside Line was separate from Edmunds, not buried in the main site). The simple fact remains that with the 3er and 5er, the heart and soul of BMW, recent trends are that they just don't dominate the driving experience like they traditionally have. They're still terrific cars, but they're no longer clearly the drivers choice that they used to be.

I do agree with your assessment that the 328i has a clearer advantage on its direct competition than the 335i does, but the simple fact is that the competition is getting better with each generation while BMW has made some questionable moves recently.
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      05-13-2013, 11:54 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I like them, and try to ignore the AOL connection, but they are a tertiary news source (I also liked them more when Inside Line was separate from Edmunds, not buried in the main site). The simple fact remains that with the 3er and 5er, the heart and soul of BMW, recent trends are that they just don't dominate the driving experience like they traditionally have. They're still terrific cars, but they're no longer clearly the drivers choice that they used to be.

I do agree with your assessment that the 328i has a clearer advantage on its direct competition than the 335i does, but the simple fact is that the competition is getting better with each generation while BMW has made some questionable moves recently.
I agree, I liked it better as Inside Line.

The 5 series started the trend, as it is too much of a 7 series light. But the F30 is not as an extreme desensitizing. It also gained a lot along the way, with F10 matching rear seat legroom.

I will say the F30 gave up about 10-20% of what made the E90 a drivers car. This comes from my own personal experience.

BUT

I feel (328 to 328) it gained 20% in terms of performance, 40% in aftermarket tunability, 20% in terms of fuel economy, 20% in terms of standard equipment/vs price, 20% in terms of overallsize/packaging

So yeah, I mourn the loss of that first 10-20% and work to get much of it back(light wheels+PSS, springs, swaybars, and hope for a TSB on the steering rack coding/hardware) but I feel like you get a good amount of other things in return.

There were always reasons why I would test drive an E90 and never put money down on one. I am not the only person to find the mix appealing in the F30 in comparison.
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      05-13-2013, 01:57 PM   #52
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Ha - Edmunds picks an IS250 and complains about the power and tires where as you could spec an IS 350 with sport wheels and tires for the same price as the 328i. I think the winner of that comparison would have been different.
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      05-13-2013, 02:05 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ptack View Post
Ha - Edmunds picks an IS250 and complains about the power and tires where as you could spec an IS 350 with sport wheels and tires for the same price as the 328i. I think the winner of that comparison would have been different.
More power does not automatically mean better. For the price stated, you could bring an 335i to this fight, it would be faster still than everything. But we saw the 335 vs IS350 vs ATS 3.6 comparo, and guess what, it was faster by a long shot and did NOT win.

It used to be that BMWs were so far from pony cars like Mustangs and Camaros. They were not about straightline, or the most power, but handling.

Now everyone wants to talk about the 335 and how it out muscles its competition in a straight line but gives up to them in steering and handling. Oh-how times have changed.

In this test, they did not just talk about the muscle aspect, the cars were judged and it was not just the straightline advantage of the BMW, it sounds like the 328 was appreciated as an overall package. Which is how people who spend MONEY and not buy magazines or forum bash select cars.
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      05-14-2013, 01:20 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biohazard29 View Post
I personally feel we have seen the best and things are getting cheap.
I share this opinion. E39 540i M-sport 6MT was the best BMW I ever owned, operated, and arguably the most timeless design. Regret trading it in. So do my parents (they would have bought it).
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      05-15-2013, 10:29 AM   #55
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I thought the base interior on 328i f30 appeared cheap, or similar to base $25k cars out there. You need to check off extra boxes to feel the quality.

In the past, I felt the extra premium I paid for the BMW was justified because there were no other options that came close to delivering that intangible driving experience.

After driving the ATS, this is no longer the case. Not sure how cheap the BMW is now, but I no longer feel inclined to pay that premium over the great competition out there now.
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      05-15-2013, 07:51 PM   #56
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I'm saving my opinion until I see and drive the F8X M3. I'll admit I'm a little worried about the six cylinder. I will also be curious to see the response from the Audi RS and Mercedes AMG models.
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      05-17-2013, 01:52 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane
I'm saving my opinion until I see and drive the F8X M3. I'll admit I'm a little worried about the six cylinder. I will also be curious to see the response from the Audi RS and Mercedes AMG models.
I think AMG still won't have a proper response. Those cars just don't seem to do much for people. Sure they look great on paper, but there's really no soul behind them. The M badge has power in and of itself, the AMG badge is just Mercedes trying to play catch up.
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      05-17-2013, 02:08 PM   #58
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No. BMW reacts to the ever changing customer and progress within the industry.
It is the customer that drives the decisions in the auto industry and manufacturers have to react to the changes.

Whether in customers expectations or in diminishing features , manufacturers have no choice but to react to what happens.
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      05-17-2013, 09:27 PM   #59
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A Timely Thread for a Prospective Buyer of a 2013 E93.

Hi Everybody!

First, I have finally joined this forum after "lurking" for years. What a great forum! Thank you all for the great contributions and drool-worthy photos!

This thread is indeed a timely one for me. My 2007 E92 335i needs new brakes, new tires, a new battery, etc. I am on the verge of trading it in and getting a new E93. BMW Corporate and the dealerships are really trying to move the E92 and E93 inventory to clear the deck for their successors. This is making for some great deals! My target vehicle is a loaded E93 335i (Le Mans Blue, Oyster/Black, Black Anthracite, M Sport, 19" Star Spoke wheels, all options/packages) at $500 over invoice plus the $2250 corporate incentive. I love this body style and have enjoyed the vert every time the dealership had one available as a loaner.

So, my only concern is that I will regret the purchase when the new platform debuts. But, I think the E92 and E93 body styles are beautiful and the N55 engine an engineering marvel.

But, I really dislike the "uni-brow" look of the lights merging with the kidney grills on the F30. Am I alone in this reaction? BMW should call it the Anthony Davis Edition (that reference will only make fans of American basketball chuckle). I would imagine the new coupe and vert will incorporate this style. That may be a small consideration for some, but it might be the deciding factor in my decision...along with the $7k discount!

Thoughts?

1) On pulling the trigger on the last of the E93 Mohicans, and

2) The particular combination I'm looking at.

Final comment in this rambling first post. I agree with those who still look lovingly at the E46. I had a beautiful 2000 540i 6MT. It was my last stick and it was unbelievably fun to drive! That is my favorite body style for the 5 series. It still works! Unfortunately that steed met with a tragic end. It was out of warranty and suffered some serious engine problems. I willingly forked over the $5000 to bring her back to life. Less than 5 minutes out of the shop I was rear-ended at high speed and the insurance company pronounced her DOA. In the blink of an eye I lost $5k and a beautiful car. Arrrghhh.

Cheers,

Bill
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      05-19-2013, 01:33 PM   #60
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Unhappy BMW fading!

Latest Car and Driver comparo rates Lexus IS 350 F Sport over BMW 335i M Sport, calls it the upset of the year. Worst of all, the Lexus is more fun to drive.

Why? BMW met EU demands and got lazy about improving its new cars.

The Ultimate Touring Machine?

Sad, I have a 2007 335i coupe, which I love. I predict its replacement, the new 4 series coupe, will also be inferior!
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      05-21-2013, 12:35 PM   #61
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Nope.

1 series has way better quality & fit & finish, 3 series is on-par with the previous generation in fit & finish. 5 series has WAY better quality & fit & finish than the previous generations.
You know what, I remember people saying the very same thing when E46 M3 was released! Some were saying "M3 is not fun anymore, it's just another GT" !!!
A few years ago, if you look at the M5, M3 forums here, you would find people complaining about the gas mileage of M5 or M3, lack of torque in lower revs, dull interior, transmission-in M5, etc. All of these problems have been solved!
I really think the new M3/M4 will be pretty amazing. For years, the main complaint about the M3 was that it was getting heavier. So now, it will be lighter. There is always a compromise.
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      05-21-2013, 09:21 PM   #62
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My E92 had better fit/finish than F30 hence one of the main reasons why I got the F10.
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      05-22-2013, 02:14 AM   #63
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At least you can still buy E92 M3 with hydraulic power steering and naturally aspirated engine. Its close to a proper M car!
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      05-22-2013, 08:55 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COBBTT View Post
After driving an F30 I feel like maybe the 3 series has lost its quality feel. That being said, if you drove a new M5, I think we'd be singing a different tune.
I couldn't agree more. When BMW bought back my 2012 135i in March of last year I leased a fully loaded 2012 328i Sport Line which I absolutely hated and traded in 8 months later for a 2013 e92 335i M-Sport. I did like the technology and features in the F30 but I felt the actual driving dynamics were dull and lacked any excitement. The electric power steering was awful and had such a lack of feedback and responsiveness that it felt like it was floating. The real icing on the cake was that in the first month and a half I had the car it was towed into the dealer three times and in the shop for a total of three weeks because the car was so new there weren't any parts available yet. I personally feel that BMW may be forgetting it's heritage of making the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and only focusing on quantity over quality now.

Last edited by GT1281; 05-22-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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      05-22-2013, 09:13 AM   #65
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I love when people refer to a previous car and it's subjective feeling as "proper". Just like those from the past who didn't like seatbelts.

Time marches on, technology changes ever faster, car's "progress" - sometimes not for the better (Bangle), but it moves us forward so at least everyone is safer. Having just enjoyed feeling my e38's airbags and now having the chance to move into a e89 (picking it up this weekend), I'll appreciate the car for what it is, not what it was or could have been...
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      05-22-2013, 12:21 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher View Post
I love when people refer to a previous car and it's subjective feeling as "proper". Just like those from the past who didn't like seatbelts.

Time marches on, technology changes ever faster, car's "progress" - sometimes not for the better (Bangle), but it moves us forward so at least everyone is safer. Having just enjoyed feeling my e38's airbags and now having the chance to move into a e89 (picking it up this weekend), I'll appreciate the car for what it is, not what it was or could have been...
Well considering this is e90post.com most people are talking about the 3 series. If you drove an e9x compared to an F30 you'd be disappointed too. If you're inferring that change isn't welcome, that's ridiculous. Forward thinking is what makes a company great. But once you start contradicting your original business plan of making a real driver's car, your loyal client base will find other vices such as your competitors cars, to fill the void you have created. Remember the e92/e93 are still in production, so I don't agree with your statement inferring that it is a car of the past. The electric steering is what seems to be the problem. I bet if they switched back to hydrolic, you'd hear a lot less complaints.
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