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      05-07-2013, 06:42 AM   #1
bigandy
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335i long crank - not HPFP. Ideas???

So,

My car developed the textbook HPFP symptoms. After replacing the pump at the weekend it still has a long crank - no effect at all.

All was not lost though as changing the HPFP gave me an opportunity to look at the inlet valves and boy was I glad I did. Will upload a photo later but safe to say they were well overdue some attention! It runs so much smoother at idle and start up now, not sure if that's just due to the valves or a combination of pump and valves.

Either way, I still have a long crank when the engine is cold, anybody got any ideas?

Cheers
Andy
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      05-07-2013, 07:01 AM   #2
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Could be the Low Pressure Fuel Pump.

Does it run fine otherwise - any codes?
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      05-10-2013, 01:48 AM   #3
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Yes it drives fine now.

It did used to have a slight misfire/stutter when the car was cold first thing in the morning for a minute or so. It also had a rough idle. Both of these seem to have gone after changing the HPFP/cleaning the valves. The only thing I'm left with is a long crank, albeit, slightly shorter than before.

Low pressure pump - I realised today that it only primes for a fraction of a second when unlocking. Is this right? Every other car I've had has primed for at least a second, more like two.
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      05-10-2013, 04:25 AM   #4
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Yes you are right... It primes when you unlock the car.


Did you get your inlet valves done then?
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      05-10-2013, 02:21 PM   #5
bigandy
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Yeah I know it's right for it to prime on unlocking but it seems like it is a very short prime compared to previous cars I've owned.

Yes I did the valves while the inlet was off.
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      05-10-2013, 02:39 PM   #6
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I had the long crank problem which turned out to be a faulty oxygen sensor. Replaced under warranty and haven't had the issue since.
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      05-10-2013, 04:13 PM   #7
bigandy
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How long should the pump prime for on unlocking?
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      05-10-2013, 08:08 PM   #8
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Mines will go at least a second I think. Haven't timed it
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      05-11-2013, 01:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigandy View Post
How long should the pump prime for on unlocking?
Mine is 4-5 seconds after an overnight stand.
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      05-11-2013, 06:03 AM   #10
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Could be caused by faulty crankshaft sensor, therefore meaning engine has to turn over for longer to allow the camshaft sensor to know the positions of the pistons

Mike
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      05-11-2013, 03:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88
I had the long crank problem which turned out to be a faulty oxygen sensor. Replaced under warranty and haven't had the issue since.
How did a faulty 02 sensor cause your cold start up problems? I thought they were out of play until the engine is warm?

I'm having similar problems along with part throttle engine surges when cold & hot so had ruled out 02 sensors.

Are we sayin faulty 02 sensors on our cars can also cause cold engine issues?
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      05-11-2013, 04:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i E92 View Post
How did a faulty 02 sensor cause your cold start up problems? I thought they were out of play until the engine is warm?

I'm having similar problems along with part throttle engine surges when cold & hot so had ruled out 02 sensors.

Are we sayin faulty 02 sensors on our cars can also cause cold engine issues?
Faulty oxygen sensor causing slight over fuelling, which caused the engine to crank longer in order to burn off excess fuel (or something along those lines), sorry I cannot quite remember the technical explanation I was given.

My engine took up to 4 seconds to crank, since oxygen sensor was replaced last November, not had the problem since, so surely a possibility.
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      05-11-2013, 05:12 PM   #13
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The O2 sensor is not relative on a stone cold engine.
It's running in open loop fuelling until the O2 sensor heats up - they cannot work cold.

Most common long crank issue and rough idle for a few seconds or until blipping is
a weeping fuel injector.

They drip fuel into the cylinder(s) overnight leaving a wet mess to try and clear/start.
If you shut it off a few seconds after starting, run the rear and see if it stinks of fuel at the exhaust.
You may well see the excessive black smoke if you get someone else to turn the key in the morning.

Replaced two of mine.
This also caused a cascade of errors in the log too - misfires and O2 failures (it wasn't that).

Steve
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      07-10-2013, 04:00 PM   #14
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Well bugger me sideways! I've been out of he country s fair bit with work so not been able to get time to look at this till now.

On the advice of the post above I pulled the spark plugs out, sure enough cylinder ones plug was coked up and obviously not running right. To rule out coils I swapped it with cylinder and ran the car for a day or two. When I checked the plugs again it was still cylinder 1. So yesterday I pulled all the injectors out and found cyl 1 was coked up again.

Today I ordered a new one but while they're all out I cleaned the others by soaking the head in a bath of carb cleaner. Thought I might ask ell do cylinder 1 at the same time to see how we'll it came out. It cleaned up spotlessly like the others.

I was killing time tonight so refitted injectors 2-6 along with new plugs then thought I might as well throw injector 1 back in as we'll and see how it runs cleaned up. It's fixed my long crank and cold start idle. So after paying for a new hpfp it turns out all I needed to spend was 5 on some carb cleaner (and 30 on new injector seals). Still at least I have piece of mind that I have a new hpfp, clean inlet valves and new plugs.

It's post isn't much use to anyone but me but hopefully it might get read by some people experiencing 'textbook hpfp symptoms' as I was told when actually it's a far simpler and cheaper fix.
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      12-06-2013, 10:30 PM   #15
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Long crank

I too am plagued with this. Seems to be mostly in the morning. I love my 335i 2008 52k miles. Took it to the dealer and they had it for 3days and said it wasn't the hpfs. Pissed me off cause it cost me $160 for nothing done.

I'm thinking along the lines mentioned here about spark plugs but not very familiar with BMW maint on plugs, injectors etc.

Can someone give me advice on what I need to change here with more detail or point me to something. I have mechanical experience but with Lexus and Mitsubishi.

Thanks. I want my car to run smoothly again.

Regards

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigandy View Post
Well bugger me sideways! I've been out of he country s fair bit with work so not been able to get time to look at this till now.

On the advice of the post above I pulled the spark plugs out, sure enough cylinder ones plug was coked up and obviously not running right. To rule out coils I swapped it with cylinder and ran the car for a day or two. When I checked the plugs again it was still cylinder 1. So yesterday I pulled all the injectors out and found cyl 1 was coked up again.

Today I ordered a new one but while they're all out I cleaned the others by soaking the head in a bath of carb cleaner. Thought I might ask ell do cylinder 1 at the same time to see how we'll it came out. It cleaned up spotlessly like the others.

I was killing time tonight so refitted injectors 2-6 along with new plugs then thought I might as well throw injector 1 back in as we'll and see how it runs cleaned up. It's fixed my long crank and cold start idle. So after paying for a new hpfp it turns out all I needed to spend was 5 on some carb cleaner (and 30 on new injector seals). Still at least I have piece of mind that I have a new hpfp, clean inlet valves and new plugs.

It's post isn't much use to anyone but me but hopefully it might get read by some people experiencing 'textbook hpfp symptoms' as I was told when actually it's a far simpler and cheaper fix.
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      12-10-2013, 10:06 AM   #16
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Sitting at my dealer now because of this same issue (long crank) and I noticed low power as i drove it it this morning, so I came straight here. I'm told it's the crank shaft sensor. They said it starts off of the cam shaft sensor and that has to turn more (cam rotates 2 or 3x to one rotation of the crank shaft) that's why it started, but had poor performance. Total repair is about $500... luckily I'm still under warranty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djarami View Post
I too am plagued with this. Seems to be mostly in the morning. I love my 335i 2008 52k miles. Took it to the dealer and they had it for 3days and said it wasn't the hpfs. Pissed me off cause it cost me $160 for nothing done.

I'm thinking along the lines mentioned here about spark plugs but not very familiar with BMW maint on plugs, injectors etc.

Can someone give me advice on what I need to change here with more detail or point me to something. I have mechanical experience but with Lexus and Mitsubishi.

Thanks. I want my car to run smoothly again.

Regards
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      12-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #17
gaza01
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Same here....not a long crank but rough idle at cold starts. After about 2 mins of driving i turn off the restart...car runs like a dream!
So how difficult is it to remove the injectors?
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      12-10-2013, 01:44 PM   #18
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Found this diy. Looks easy enough except dor the coding! Will the car drive for a while without the coding being done?...least that way i can get it to someone who can code the new injectors

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=Diy+injector
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      12-10-2013, 02:46 PM   #19
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It's not so much 'coding', more like calibrating of the ECU. The car will run fine without the new injector being coded, but not 'perfect'. If you have a leaking or sticking injector then you will definitely see a big improvement even without having the new one coded. If you have a friendly parts supplier they might be able to cherry-pick the injector which has the closest flow rate to the removed injector.

And yes, it's an easy job. The most time consuming part is getting the scuttle panel out so you can get the plug cover off. You might aswell do the spark plugs while you're in there if they haven't already been done recently.
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      12-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #20
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Ok thanks.
Ive done all the plugs and then coils 1 2 & 3 as these are the problem ones. Will get injectors next
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