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      05-08-2013, 02:14 AM   #1
mistryn
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Pagid pads

Recently I had my front pads changed to pagid pads from ECP (normal pagid not the fast road etc ones) and my BMW OEM discs were ok no lip etc

However I am quite dissapointed with them, braking feels loose not as sharp as before - not loose in dangerous loose i,e. brake pedal applied no braking but just feel the lack of bite my old ones gave

my old pads were BMW pads and they felt a lot sharper under heavy braking, I have driven over 500 miles on the pagid ones as I thought it was a bedding in issue but still they lack the bite to previous pads

has anyone else noticed this with pagid pads?
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      05-08-2013, 02:47 AM   #2
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I tried pagid pad once and had a similar experience. Now I always go either ATE or TEXTAR. Likewise with discs. ATE do some great discs for reasonable prices.
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      05-08-2013, 04:05 AM   #3
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Looks like i will be changing these very sooon again as not impressed by these
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      05-08-2013, 04:40 AM   #4
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I thought the same on my X5 when I changed to Pagid. Feel isn't as good but after a good few miles I'm used to it and the braking is plenty good enough, just doesn't feel as firm.
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      05-08-2013, 05:46 AM   #5
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Hmm interesting I've only done my rears with new pagid dics and pads. I wonder if it could be the mixture of old and new. As you done over 500 miles it should be fine by now.

Out of interest when was your brake fluid last changed
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      05-08-2013, 06:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by magic77 View Post
Hmm interesting I've only done my rears with new pagid dics and pads. I wonder if it could be the mixture of old and new. As you done over 500 miles it should be fine by now.

Out of interest when was your brake fluid last changed
brake fluid was changed 10months ago
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      05-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #7
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So still well within its life span. Haven't run pagid at front for a while but they are good pads so no reason why they should be worse if anything should be better than textar. I would think certainly in past never had any complaints about them when fitted to my or other cars I did.

The only thing I could speculate is the discs. In theory OEM discs and pagid pads shouldn't matter but at same time BMW do suggest always changing front discs with pads.

Its usually 1 to 1 on the front and 2 pads to 1 disc for rears. This is according to my sources and dealer info as they advise same.

What mileage had the front discs done IMO for sake of few ££ if not doing dealer prices I would have changed discs and pads at same time. Might be worth measuring the discs and see where they are in relation to min /max thickness. I reckon that would be a good start.

Then if you still not happy worth changing both pads and discs.

Also with weather being warmer maybe find some quiet roads and give it a good hard drive to get the pads nice and warm to bed in better and take it from there

Short of something major with the brake system I cant think of anything.

Other thing also is take it to a MOT garage and get them to run a brake test to get idea where it sits on efficiency.
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      05-08-2013, 03:50 PM   #8
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Pagid do a million types of pad material. Some are superb and some are not, just like brembo, carbonne lorraine etc. Pagid race pads are very good. Discs unlikely to have any effect on pedal feel or braking effort although pad material can. I assume you bled the brakes after pushing the pistons back in?
If its braking effort rather than feel this can be lack of bedding in or you have moved some air around or the pad material is not as aggressive.
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      05-08-2013, 04:51 PM   #9
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So still well within its life span. Haven't run pagid at front for a while but they are good pads so no reason why they should be worse if anything should be better than textar. I would think certainly in past never had any complaints about them when fitted to my or other cars I did.

The only thing I could speculate is the discs. In theory OEM discs and pagid pads shouldn't matter but at same time BMW do suggest always changing front discs with pads.

Its usually 1 to 1 on the front and 2 pads to 1 disc for rears. This is according to my sources and dealer info as they advise same.

What mileage had the front discs done IMO for sake of few ££ if not doing dealer prices I would have changed discs and pads at same time. Might be worth measuring the discs and see where they are in relation to min /max thickness. I reckon that would be a good start.

Then if you still not happy worth changing both pads and discs.

Also with weather being warmer maybe find some quiet roads and give it a good hard drive to get the pads nice and warm to bed in better and take it from there

Short of something major with the brake system I cant think of anything.

Other thing also is take it to a MOT garage and get them to run a brake test to get idea where it sits on efficiency.

thanks for the info, i have always gone by the idea of getting 2 pad cycles out of 1 disc front and back unless the discs are bad. i have recently had a service and was quoted the pads to be low but discs were fine after measurements hence why i did not replace the pads

i think the front discs have done 30k maybe slighlty less but when i had the pads replaced the mechanic took the measurement thickness and said they were fine.

I will see for a few more miles how they fair then if the same will proably replace the pads and discs again - will pribably get the discs from bmw and may go for the yellow ebc pads in the group buy

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Pagid do a million types of pad material. Some are superb and some are not, just like brembo, carbonne lorraine etc. Pagid race pads are very good. Discs unlikely to have any effect on pedal feel or braking effort although pad material can. I assume you bled the brakes after pushing the pistons back in?
If its braking effort rather than feel this can be lack of bedding in or you have moved some air around or the pad material is not as aggressive.
I had them replaced by a garage but the brakes were not bled
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      05-08-2013, 05:31 PM   #10
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OEM pads always get high ratings and seem to be the recommended option
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      05-08-2013, 05:50 PM   #11
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The brakes should not need bleeding just for replacing pads or disc's as its a sealed system
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      05-08-2013, 06:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic77 View Post
Its usually 1 to 1 on the front and 2 pads to 1 disc for rears. This is according to my sources and dealer info as they advise same.
I spoke to two dealers and got my car inspected for front pads and discs. One said you need to change both but they very dodgy so I wouldn't really trust them. Then I took my car to Sytner Sunningdale for a service, and they said discs are fine well over the limit so only pads need changing (I trust this branch). So either, my dealer is messing up or your dealer is messing up. Can you tell me your sources?
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      05-08-2013, 06:19 PM   #13
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If you switched pads and not rotors you should hone the rotor surface for best performance.

Also, which pad model did you get? Big variation depending on that...
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      05-09-2013, 01:16 AM   #14
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But you're buying OE spec pads, so it's irrelevant if they're pagid, textar, jurid, hang-sung or whatever.

They'll be designed to a mass volume low cost spec.

Pagid aren't going to say "oh well we make race pads, so let's make our boggo cheap pads extra special too"

As ever, pay peanuts......

If you want better brakes then forget OE spec pads.
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      05-09-2013, 01:34 AM   #15
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If it was me and the disc's are within tolerance then they would get used again. If I was a hard driver and worn a set of disc's to one set off pads, then I would changed both.

To be honest when I got my e90 330d I was not impressed with the brakes at all! I thought the pedal feel was dull, just never gave me confidence. However I have realised when i bought the car it had newpads and discs. Can't remember which axle, but I have give it some real hard brakes down country lanes and the brakes feel better. Maybe yours need time to bed in some more. I have done 2500 miles since pads was changed and still was not impressed! Until recently.

Once mine have worn out I will go ebc pads and a different set of disks.
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      05-09-2013, 04:12 AM   #16
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This is helpful as I need new front pads, what you guys recommend then? was thinking EBC greens, as they seem similar price to pagid or do you think EBC reds?
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      05-09-2013, 06:24 AM   #17
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Not reds for sure, they're awful, need to be hot before they work.

Yellows are great as an upgrade. Great bite from cold and no squealing etc.

Greens are an OE replacement, so not much point.
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      05-09-2013, 06:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
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The brakes should not need bleeding just for replacing pads or disc's as its a sealed system
We all agree they need bleeding. Why not do it while you are on your knees with the calipers in your hand. To be really technical when you change the pads they take a while to take the shape of the discs. This slight lack of performance is often noticeable even with good pads. The fluid has water and air in it which migrates to the caliper. Giving them a bleed at the same time restores some performance that you are going to lack with the new pads. Thats why I do it.

They also need bedding in which involves getting the pads up to a high enough temp to transfer a layer of pad material to the disc. This doesnt happen with every day use. If you want to be really on the ball you clean the disc surface of the old pad material first if swapping to a different type.

Some pads seem to give a longer pedal than others and I have swapped pads out due to this. Ive always assumed that some material is more compressible than others although Im no expert.

On my rally car I use pagid blue rs4 front and ds3000 rear. On my road car I am running bmw oem on 335 brakes as I already had some. They are good for about 5 laps of oulton before they give up. I dont think Ive ever tried ebc in any car so couldnt comment.
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      05-10-2013, 03:34 AM   #19
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ade146,

Yes, it might make a sense to bleed / change fluid yourself when you have the thing in bits, but there is no reason to do it, no service requirement to do it and no garage or work spec would ask for it.

Bleeding is only any use if you bleed right through and fill the whole system with new fluid. Moisture only gets in at the reservoir breather up top and migrates slowy through the fluid over time.

If you just bleed 'a little bit' then all you do is move the worst fluid (that in the reservoir in contact with air/moisture) down the system into the cylinder, ABS valves / pumps and lines towards the caliper, making it all much worse than before. The fluid in the caliper is sealed from the outside world and it is furthest from any atmosphere, so short of it having been boiled or too old, it will be the dryest fluid in the system.

If air was removed when the system was last bled/filled then there will be no air in the caliper, certainly withing a 2 year filling cycle.

But I agree, if its convenient, then yes change the fluid too - but no need if you don't want to, and don't just bleed 'a little bit'
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      05-10-2013, 05:04 AM   #20
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I posit that caliper seals aren't perfectly hermetic and that the wettest environment is at the wheels, not under the hood...
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      05-10-2013, 05:50 AM   #21
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I agree, the only time for me to change brake fluid and would be a full change is every two years. Brake fluid in everyday life is fine and will never get close to boiling up.

I can see why you would do it while your there, as you have the wheel off and it's easier but there is no need to if you changing brake pads or disc's it's not a must do. More of a this is what I do sort of thing.

Each to there own really, it's like oil services some people follow the CBS on the computer others do it on interval, I personal do it on interval rather than the computer more for peace of mind. Keeps the engine and turbo happy for longer!
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      05-10-2013, 06:37 AM   #22
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Very true at same time the CBS kind a does this for you as will reduce the length to service on driving style I've seen my range to service drop a lot post trips to ring and tracks.
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