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      12-12-2015, 01:50 PM   #1
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MMP Outlets Product Thread - new product annoucement

MMP Turbo Outlets Product Thread

MMP is announcing new Turbo Outlets for the N54. These pipes have a flow through area more than 2x bigger than the stock pipes on the N54 connecting the turbos to the intercooler.

We have all seen the incredible gains from MMP Turbo Inlets setting records on the dyno and track, now we all need to up our game and upgrade the highly restrictive turbo outlets to maximize power on our N54s!


Picture comparing the stock restrictive turbo outlets to the free flowing MMP outlets that are 2x as big!


picture of custom machined stock turbo vband adapter




picture of vband adapter attached to stock turbo compressor housings




The kit comes complete in the box with all T-bolt clamps, custom silicone adapters, aluminum pipes, and machined expansion nozzles with vband interface and O-ring to be a direct bolt on replacement to your restrictive OEM hotside pipes. No cutting up of your stock pipes, bead rolling, or bead welding required.

NEW LOW PRICE IS $199, limited stock selling fast, just waiting on some inventory to arrive before I mark them as in stock on my website. They are available for pre purchase.

You can view the product page on my website here
http://mmp-e.com/products/bmw-n54-up...ercooler-pipes


These upgraded pipes work with stock turbos or any upgraded hybrid turbochargers in stock housings. They will also work with the large TD04 compressor housings on MMP turbos simply by removing the machined adapter for stock turbos.

Install is as easy as removing your Downpipes, removing your restrictive OEM hotside chargepipes, installing new high flow MMP hotside chargepipes, and let her rip! Does not require dropping the sub frame or anything more difficult then the basic steps above. The kit will include detailed install instructions with it.

Bench flow testing results, THEY FLOW 10X better THAN STOCK!!


Here is the proven bench flow testing extrapolated out to maximum stock turbo flow levels and higher for upgraded stock frame turbos.



fitment pics



















discussion of dyno proven results

here is the dyno graph gains



1) here is the post discussing the gains
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=51

2) here is the post discussing the difference in boost curves
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=50

The above posts show 3rd party dyno testing results same car same dyno days apart with minimal tuning that the outlets made +30whp gain around peak torque, +25whp gain on the top end and +10whp gain at max power and +34wtq gain ALL WITHOUT pushing the tune to optimize for the outlets because it made these gains with 2 PSI LESS BOOST and LESS WGDC!

with an optimized tune and taking advantage of the freed up WGDC and boost, gains would be SIGNIFICANTLY improved! We have not seen what MMP outlets can actually do if tuned to take advantage of the freed up boost and WGDC.

3) here are the bench flow testing results
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...72&postcount=7

from the bench flow testing done by a third party you can see that at 500whp SCFM levels (around 700 SCFM) the MMP outlets flow 10x better if extrapolated out. Within the measured data points you can see that even at 200 SCFM levels which is pretty low horsepower even within the stock factory hp levels and tuning the outlets have a 1psi pressure loss while the MMP outlets have a 0.1psi pressure loss, showing 10x better flow.

Seeing how bad the stock outlets flow on the flowbench even at flow rates as low as 200 SCFM! I did not reuse ANY part of the stock outlets as they have proven to flow very badly.

Last edited by MM Performance; 01-27-2016 at 11:36 PM.
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      12-12-2015, 02:10 PM   #2
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Good concept. But as many have already stated on the other forum, that flow chart is seriously misleading.

You can't just extrapolated data like that...
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      12-12-2015, 02:15 PM   #3
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I talked to the aeropsace engineer who owns the flow bench and he said it is limited to 1 psi pressure drop and very few flow benches go beyond that and they get very expensive and are used for internal R&D at large corporations.

Within the limitations of the flow bench where the data points are shown the pipes are still showing more than 300% better flow even at those low flow levels. Engineering extrapolation is shown as an indication of what might be expected at max turbo flow levels understanding that it is just an estimate based on data and are not actual measurements at the high flow rate due to limitations of the equipment itself.

Last edited by MM Performance; 12-12-2015 at 02:54 PM.
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      12-12-2015, 02:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
Good concept. But as many have already stated on the other forum, that flow chart is seriously misleading.

You can't just extrapolated data like that...
I talked to the aeropsace engineer who owns the flow bench and he said it is limited to 1 psi pressure drop and very few flow benches go beyond that and they get very expensive and are used for internal R&D at large corporations.

Within the limitations of the flow bench where the data points are shown the pipes are still showing more than 300% better flow even at those low flow levels. Engineering extrapolation is shown as an indication of what might be expected at max turbo flow levels understanding that it is just an estimate based on data and are not actual measurements at the high flow rate due to limitations of the equipment itself.
Look, I will admit fluid dynamic is not my field. But I come from an academic background, data like yours is simply unscientific and not publishable in any peer review journals.

You can speculate all you want, but unless you have some very good flow modeling, which you don't (and quite a few people have pointed out these aftermarket pipes will have more turbulence due to the sudden diameter change from silicone connectors), you cannot extrapolate a data set by >500% like this.

Put down some dyno number instead... These charts do nothing to sell these products.
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      12-12-2015, 02:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
Good concept. But as many have already stated on the other forum, that flow chart is seriously misleading.

You can't just extrapolated data like that...
I talked to the aeropsace engineer who owns the flow bench and he said it is limited to 1 psi pressure drop and very few flow benches go beyond that and they get very expensive and are used for internal R&D at large corporations.

Within the limitations of the flow bench where the data points are shown the pipes are still showing more than 300% better flow even at those low flow levels. Engineering extrapolation is shown as an indication of what might be expected at max turbo flow levels understanding that it is just an estimate based on data and are not actual measurements at the high flow rate due to limitations of the equipment itself.
Look, I will admit fluid dynamic is not my field. But I come from an academic background, data like yours is simply unscientific and not publishable in any peer review journals.

You can speculate all you want, but unless you have some very good flow modeling, which you don't (and quite a few people have pointed out these aftermarket pipes will have more turbulence due to the sudden diameter change from silicone connectors), you cannot extrapolate a data set by >500% like this.
Like I said, just look at the data that was measured (data points on the plot) showing 300%+ better flow since you have so much issue with the extrapolation.

I am not publishing a peer review journal here
You extrapolate the stock flow by 6x. Please tell what evidence do you have that the actual will conformal to what you are trying to claim. I am not trying to pull you leg here, so please educate me on this if I am missing anything.

In the end, I can also extrapolate the curve to be linear instead of exponential. There is just not enough data point. I remember you said you have an engineering background, seriously, would you pull this off in your line of work?
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      12-12-2015, 02:29 PM   #6
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I do agree that a before and after dyno would convince people to buy.
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      12-12-2015, 02:34 PM   #7
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Here are the actual datapoints from the test, I just inverted and extrapolated with a very good equation fit with R value of .99 (almost perfect curve fit to the measured data.

Here is the data capture and actually measured during the test, even just with this alone you can see 300% better flow
SCFM vs pressure loss



Here is the data with R value displayed to show how well the curve fits the test data and extrapolated to 900 SCFM

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      12-12-2015, 02:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Performance
Here are the actual datapoints from the test, I just inverted and extrapolated with a very good equation fit with R value of .99 (almost perfect curve fit to the measured data.

Here is the data capture and actually measured during the test, even just with this alone you can see 300% better flow
SCFM vs pressure loss

[IMG]http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1449945140[/IMG]

Here is the data with R value displayed to show how well the curve fits the test data and extrapolated to 900 SCFM

[IMG]http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1449945140[/IMG]
Your R^2 means very little in this case, because you have very little data. I can draw any trends I want and still end with a decent fitting as long as the initial 10% of the extrapolated data matches with your limited data points. And how accurate is your data to begin with really? With that limited actual data range, even 5% uncertainty will play a huge part with the ways you extend the extrapolation. And what is the actual Y axis of your first plot... If you do this as an actual engineer, I am going to shoot myself.

You can spin it whatever way you wants. But I said what needs to be said. I think anyone with an elementary understanding of statistics would see the flaw your data presentation here.
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      12-12-2015, 03:22 PM   #9
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R-squared only tells you how good the curve fits to the existing data. It has absolutely nothing to do with extrapolation. The extrapolation simply extends the curve fit so it does not consider physical limitations. I'm betting the pipes chokes long before you get to the end of your extrapolation. You extrapolate the stock pipe data more than 4 fold, that is terrible practice and is laughable to anyone with an engineering background.

ALSO, as I mentioned on n54tech, the data you present was for your pipes WITHOUT the restrictive nozzles. You are comparing apples to oranges here buddy. You said you were going to retest with the nozzles... what ever happened with that?
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      12-12-2015, 03:24 PM   #10
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Who the fuck cares?

These obviously flow much better than stock and that's all that matters. If you need a graph to show you that, than that's on you.
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      12-12-2015, 03:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Who the fuck cares?

These obviously flow much better than stock and that's all that matters. If you need a graph to show you that, than that's on you.
Would you buy products from someone who is intentionally trying to mislead their customers? I know I wouldn't.

The sad part is that OP could have just made a simple dyno comparison and call it a day. Instead of this BS.
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      12-12-2015, 03:28 PM   #12
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I wouldn't say he is misleading. He is making an informed and educated guess based on the data he has. Its no different that someone posting up a dyno with no baseline imo.

You know they flow significantly more than stock.
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      12-12-2015, 03:57 PM   #13
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Why is a before and after dyno not a possibility. It will shut people up and sell kits.
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      12-12-2015, 04:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yournamehere90
Why is a before and after dyno not a possibility. It will shut people up and sell kits.
That will come later. My car has upgraded turbos that don't use stock outlets so can't do it on my car. Looking for a good local tester with the right setup to test them out on the Dyno and get a free set for the efforts.
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      12-12-2015, 05:00 PM   #15
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I'll try some out haha I'll have hexon rr600s installed in the next couple of weeks. Just got your inlets in the mail today also
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      12-12-2015, 06:57 PM   #16
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I'll be very interested to see what kind of gains this makes on an FBO stock twins car.

I volunteer as tribute if it includes free pipes and labor.
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      12-12-2015, 08:04 PM   #17
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Shoot if i get a set for free and dyno you can take me car for months lol.
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      12-12-2015, 09:37 PM   #18
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Wouldn't larger pipes lead to more turbo lag and pressure loss because it has a larger volume to fill after the turbos? (Just like larger-core intercoolers)
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      12-12-2015, 09:54 PM   #19
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Let's get some Dyno before and afters!!
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      12-12-2015, 10:17 PM   #20
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Will these fit rhd?
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      12-12-2015, 10:40 PM   #21
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They flow 10x better than stock? So we can expect to make 10x more HP right? What's up with the BS flow chart? Where's the dyno numbers?
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      12-12-2015, 11:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happytaco
They flow 10x better than stock? So we can expect to make 10x more HP right? What's up with the BS flow chart? Where's the dyno numbers?
Thats not how it works, Its about reducing pressure Loss in the piping.

For examine, MMP inlets flow 5x better than stock but net +45whp gain with max effort tune.

It would be more accurate to say they have 10x less pressure loss in the pipe, which is extrapolated so it's a guess based on data. From the measured data you can see it ha 3x less pressure loss than stock pipes.

Outlets don't make power, they just flow better to reduce pressure loss so that the engine breathes better and the turbos to get the maximum power out of the turbos and reduce the pressure losses in the system.
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