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      05-26-2013, 08:05 PM   #1
tennis_pr0
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How stubborn will the insurance company be?

So a guy backed into my car in the parking lot the other day. Just a fender bender, but my car was accident free up until this. I got a trade in quote form bmw for my car with no accidents and with one accident one it, and it looks like the value is going down about 4k. This sounds right to me as I know anything on car fax effects the car resale value a good bit.

I sent the insurance a copy of the car fax showing the car is accident free as well as the trade in appraisal the bmw wrote up for me. I know the insurance company isn't going to make this an easy process and I'm just wondering if anyone knows or has experience with this. Thanks.
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      05-26-2013, 08:50 PM   #2
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Make what an easy process? Their job is to replace parts that were damaged, not to make you whole on any future diminished value from the accident. You'll never get them to pay for that. That's why they're called "accidents" and why they suck. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
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      05-27-2013, 07:48 AM   #3
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Make what an easy process? Their job is to replace parts that were damaged, not to make you whole on any future diminished value from the accident. You'll never get them to pay for that. That's why they're called "accidents" and why they suck. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
In Georgia it's law that insurance companies have to pay you diminished value after an accident. My car was involved in a fender bender that had to have the quarter panel replaced and insurance paid me about $700. I don't know how fair that is and I don't know how it works in your state either. Good luck.
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      05-27-2013, 08:04 AM   #4
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In Georgia it's law that insurance companies have to pay you diminished value after an accident. My car was involved in a fender bender that had to have the quarter panel replaced and insurance paid me about $700. I don't know how fair that is and I don't know how it works in your state either. Good luck.
That's why our process is so broken, and now we get used parts on a repair.

Think about it from an economist's standpoint--two vehicles are involved in an accident. there is value that will be lost forever, as both vehicles are in a condition, repaired or not, that is significantly worse than before the accident.

Now, insurance has to make both parties whole again?

What is very strange, is that short of fraud, when something happens in a home, or in personal liability, the policyholder fully expects to lose monetarily in a significant fashion. Yet, often with a car, they expect something to the contrary....
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      05-27-2013, 11:22 AM   #5
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In Georgia it's law that insurance companies have to pay you diminished value after an accident.
Washington State is the same as well. When I was hit in my E46, I collected most of the repair damage costs (long story ending in a lawsuit against that 'good neighbor" company") as well as ~4K in diminished value claim. You have to ask for it, and may need a lawyer, but you should be able to get it if you are not the at-fault party.

Some really good information here (Washington State focused, but still a good read).

http://hauryscollision.com/

Go to the insurance tab.

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      05-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #6
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I believe most states are silent on this issue and thus it becomes a contractual matter between the insurance company and you. As far as I know, no insurance company would willingly allow diminished value claims for both economic and practical reasons. The economic reasons should be obvious. The practical reasons have to do with the subjective difficultly of figuring out diminished value.

I absolutely disagree though that a small finder bender would cause your BMW to diminish in value by $4K, if property repaired. I have sold several cars that had little accidents and had no discernible issue. This is assuming the vehicle is being sold when it is about 4 years old. Obviously diminished value is going to be a greater concern if a new car is going to be resold while it is still very new.
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      05-27-2013, 11:51 AM   #7
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I absolutely disagree though that a small finder bender would cause your BMW to diminish in value by $4K, if property repaired. I have sold several cars that had little accidents and had no discernible issue. This is assuming the vehicle is being sold when it is about 4 years old. Obviously diminished value is going to be a greater concern if a new car is going to be resold while it is still very new.
Tell this to the Porsche guys. That is probably the level at which it's night and day. Hit = not desirable.

What I find about body work that is mind boggling, is that when you look at a repair, when a panel is sparkling clean, in sunlight, AND at an angle, you see the repair in almost every case. The texture does not match the factory.
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      05-27-2013, 01:03 PM   #8
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BMW Northwest crashed one of my cars a couple years ago. They fixed it after having the car for 3 weeks. I got no loaner, no discount on the work that the car was there for. Not even a free oil change. A couple years later, I was using this same car as a trade in at BMW Northwest. We agreed on the trade in value but then while doing the paperwork they found that it had their accident on the record. They wanted to give me 3500 less on trade in because they would be at risk for not being able to sell it with accident history....
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      05-27-2013, 03:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
Tell this to the Porsche guys. That is probably the level at which it's night and day. Hit = not desirable.

What I find about body work that is mind boggling, is that when you look at a repair, when a panel is sparkling clean, in sunlight, AND at an angle, you see the repair in almost every case. The texture does not match the factory.
I think a lot of this depends on several factors. Some paint colors are harder to blend than others. Also, the location on the car of the repair, the materials being repaired and the age of the car are very important factors. Also, if the repair is simply using bondo or replacing the entire component, makes a major difference in the final out come.

The repairs that I have personally had done were always bumpers that were completely replaced. I was asked on a couple of occasions if I wanted to save some money be repairing the existing bumper. I always opted to replace the bumper, mainly because the other guys insurance paid for the repairs.

Also, I cannot emphasize enough that there is a huge difference in "Joe's Paint and Body" and the very best guys out there. The best will not let a car leave without the paint being perfect. The charge twice as much though.
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      05-27-2013, 03:14 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Malibu1 View Post
BMW Northwest crashed one of my cars a couple years ago. They fixed it after having the car for 3 weeks. I got no loaner, no discount on the work that the car was there for. Not even a free oil change. A couple years later, I was using this same car as a trade in at BMW Northwest. We agreed on the trade in value but then while doing the paperwork they found that it had their accident on the record. They wanted to give me 3500 less on trade in because they would be at risk for not being able to sell it with accident history....
No offense but it sounds like you did not insist on getting what you were entitled to. Why didn't you get a loaner?

As far as the trade is concerned, of course they are going to "try" to use the repair as an excuse to get you to sell them your car for less. Their job is to "buy low" and "sell high." They have to come up with a reason to rip you off. You don't have to accept it. Dealers like this I walk away from. They don't all do this. I find dealers who want to develop relationships. If I like the cars, service and price, I will buy several vehicles from them.

I always research the resale value of my trade. I set the stage properly and tell the dealer exactly what I will and will not do. I don't hide anything. It is an up or down deal. I never traded a car when I bought American cars. The dealers always F***ed around. But most of the high-end dealers understand that haggling work against them. I have traded several cars to these guys and got exactly what was fair.
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      05-29-2013, 08:43 AM   #11
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So my insurance company got back to me abut the diminished value, and they said they used something called "ccc vin report" and see two accidents on there. I have a carfax that shows no accident, does anyone know what's going on here? I'm pretty sure these guys are giving me the run around...
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      05-29-2013, 08:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis_pr0
So my insurance company got back to me abut the diminished value, and they said they used something called "ccc vin report" and see two accidents on there. I have a carfax that shows no accident, does anyone know what's going on here? I'm pretty sure these guys are giving me the run around...
Carfax is notoriously inaccurate for some types of records. CCCIS is a more detailed vin search that insurance companies use.

www.cccis.com

I doubt they are giving you the runaround, but to be sure, ask them to send you a copy of the report so you can see for yourself. They'd have to produce it in court if it ever got that far, so they shouldn't have an issue sending it to you.

If they don't want to show you the evidence they are using to make their decision, I'd then be suspicious.
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      05-29-2013, 10:01 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by tennis_pr0 View Post
So my insurance company got back to me abut the diminished value, and they said they used something called "ccc vin report" and see two accidents on there. I have a carfax that shows no accident, does anyone know what's going on here? I'm pretty sure these guys are giving me the run around...
give me your vin, I'll check
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      05-29-2013, 12:40 PM   #14
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My odometer reading is 34k, but on this thing that sinruacne company sent me it reads 48k as the highest recorded mileage. All the work that was done on this car was reported on carfax from bmw, and it shows the car having 31k on it before I bought it, yet this other source is saying 48k miles. I'm am confused about this.
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      05-29-2013, 12:58 PM   #15
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give me your vin, I'll check
wbawb73557p032526

On carfax it is showing the highest ever mileage of 33k, on this other report, it is saying 48k. My car has 34k miles on it...
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      05-29-2013, 03:13 PM   #16
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Autocheck shows an odometer reading of 48,812 as of 4/9/2013, with no accidents reported.
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      05-29-2013, 09:08 PM   #17
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Autocheck shows an odometer reading of 48,812 as of 4/9/2013, with no accidents reported.
I was the owner of the car 4/9/13 and I took it into the bmw dealership on this date and my odometer read 33k miles....what is going on here?
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      05-29-2013, 09:29 PM   #18
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carfax shows 33k, how can carfax show 33k on 1/28/13 and this other sourve show 48k in april?
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      05-29-2013, 09:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis_pr0 View Post
I was the owner of the car 4/9/13 and I took it into the bmw dealership on this date and my odometer read 33k miles....what is going on here?
thats interesting- so you say you took it in on the date that shows the higher mileage? maybe they entered the mi wrong on this date and thats why its reflecting that. otherwise why else would there be that date with the odometer reading- it has to be some reported event and all fingers point to the dealer. does it list the dealer that you brought it to on the report with the higher mileage? if it is your dealer you should talk to them and get them to correct that so that it reflects the proper mileage. does the carfax show the correct mileage at that same date? I have noticed that carfax will often take many months to report incidents or changes to the car report- autocheck is better. the other service mentioned here maybe even better.
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      05-30-2013, 09:31 AM   #20
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Just because you have a bumper replace or minor damage it does not mean it will show up in a carfax report not all accident repairs are reported or recorded such that Carfax can get the information. Carfax many times get their information from public records like the DMV. If state does not require minor accidents to be report than it maybe never know the car had repairs.

I had an accident with a raccoon family and had my front bumper replaced, insurance paid for it but it does not show up anywhere other than the shop which did the repair. It was never reported to the state or anything.
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      05-30-2013, 09:55 AM   #21
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short answer - very stubborn

if the loss in value is that important to you, then seek legal consultation
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