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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > What is the best 4-door streetable track car?



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      05-27-2013, 04:01 PM   #1
not2fast
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What is the best 4-door streetable track car?

I currently have 2007 335i and love it as a daily driver and always thought it would be great to track, but the stories of the limp mode have me thinking this is a bad idea. I currently have a 93 MR2 Turbo I use as a track car and it is setup pretty well but where is rocks in handling it comes up short on power and high speed stability.

I am thinking I want to combine the 335i and and MR2 into a single summer car. One that I can throw a spring/strut combo on, wheels/tires, intake exhaust, and use it as a summer car and track car. I would buy an SUV for the winter months and for utility purposes.



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      05-27-2013, 04:09 PM   #2
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Probably an STi or an Evo depending on which camp you prefer. If you've got serious bank to spend the Cadillac CTS-V is a great option.
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      05-27-2013, 04:14 PM   #3
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      05-27-2013, 04:38 PM   #4
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I am not sure I want the boy racer of the Evo and STI. The E36 is a consideration, but they are on the old side. I am wondering if a E90 328i would be okay or if I would long for my 335i. I would love an E90 M3, but I wouldn't feel comfortable tracking it. It is just so disappointing the 335 can't take tracking without some many concerns.

Last edited by not2fast; 05-27-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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      05-27-2013, 06:25 PM   #5
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I think E90 M3 is one of the best dual-duty cars out there. You can track this basically out of the box, except maybe some track pads and fluid. If you're worried about crashing, track insurances can help you out for a reasonable cost. If you're worried about reliability, CPO or third party warranty.

That said, have you tracked your 335i? If so, have you come across overheating? If not, you should try it and see what happens. Everyone's driving style differs, and there are good & bad batches of 335i's, so I think it's worth a try to save all that time and money to get another car.

335i can be a beast at the track. A good driver will wipe the smiles off of many M owners' faces.
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      05-27-2013, 07:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not2fast View Post
I am not sure I want the boy racer of the Evo and STI. The E36 is a consideration, but they are on the old side. I am wondering if a E90 328i would be okay or if I would long for my 335i. I would love an E90 M3, but I wouldn't feel comfortable tracking it. It is just so disappointing the 335 can't take tracking without some many concerns.
Lexus ISF. E90 328I has overheating issues. In fact all cars do, so you'll need to slap an aftermarket oil cooler on the ISF.
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      05-27-2013, 09:11 PM   #7
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I didn't think a E90 328i would need a cooler. I would think NA wouldn't require it. It seems so off that my 20 year old MR2 Turbo pushing 250rwhp doesn't overheat in 20 minute sessions. I would think the cooling would be so much hard with it being mid engine.
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      05-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonho View Post
I think E90 M3 is one of the best dual-duty cars out there. You can track this basically out of the box, except maybe some track pads and fluid. If you're worried about crashing, track insurances can help you out for a reasonable cost. If you're worried about reliability, CPO or third party warranty.

That said, have you tracked your 335i? If so, have you come across overheating? If not, you should try it and see what happens. Everyone's driving style differs, and there are good & bad batches of 335i's, so I think it's worth a try to save all that time and money to get another car.

335i can be a beast at the track. A good driver will wipe the smiles off of many M owners' faces.
It is an auto so I have not tried it. I was thinking of selling it and finding a manual.
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      05-27-2013, 11:22 PM   #9
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From my experience the n52 does not suffer from overheating issues on the track auto or manual... Unfortunately on the track I find myself somewhat bored with the lack of power from the N52 even worse on the street...
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      05-28-2013, 09:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90 87ss View Post
From my experience the n52 does not suffer from overheating issues on the track auto or manual... Unfortunately on the track I find myself somewhat bored with the lack of power from the N52 even worse on the street...
He's just full throttle 95% of the time
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      05-28-2013, 10:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not2fast View Post
I didn't think a E90 328i would need a cooler. I would think NA wouldn't require it. It seems so off that my 20 year old MR2 Turbo pushing 250rwhp doesn't overheat in 20 minute sessions. I would think the cooling would be so much hard with it being mid engine.
My E92 328i certainly needs one.
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      05-28-2013, 11:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOM E92 View Post
My E92 328i certainly needs one.
+1! I don't know what people are talking about, but I saw a 328I overheat a few months ago at black hawk farms when it was 50F out!
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      05-28-2013, 12:06 PM   #13
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      05-28-2013, 12:12 PM   #14
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FYI, Most if not all stock vehicle will over heat at the track, if you don't put an aftermarket oil cooler, or upgrade the stock one. 370Z, Current Mustang GT, C6 Z06, ZRI, Lexus ISF, GTR, E46 M3, you name it. Vehicle cooling systems these days are just underengineered from the factory. Manufactureres have been upping power, while leaving cooling systems untouched. Only a few stock vehicles I've seen have been ok, like the C5/C5 Z06, or the E90 M3
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      05-29-2013, 09:51 AM   #15
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Killerfish not really sure about that. Unless its an extremely hot day and you are really pushing your car each lap without cool down laps any stock non-turbo should be fine especially if you have a manual trans.

Not saying that it's not wise to upgrade your cooling system, but its relatively misleading to make such a broad overarching generalization without any empirical data or proof... and anecdotes certainly do count as proof...
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      05-29-2013, 11:54 AM   #16
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      05-29-2013, 11:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90 87ss View Post
Killerfish not really sure about that. Unless its an extremely hot day and you are really pushing your car each lap without cool down laps any stock non-turbo should be fine especially if you have a manual trans.

Not saying that it's not wise to upgrade your cooling system, but its relatively misleading to make such a broad overarching generalization without any empirical data or proof... and anecdotes certainly do count as proof...
Well lets be clear here. As long as we're talking summer day time temps, with hard driving in intermediate to advanced groups for 20-30 minutes, all the cars listed will over heat. In fact I've seen those specific cars experience very high oil temps in person. Stock 2011 Mustang GT?-300F oil temp, stock 370Z? 290F-oil temp and limp mode, stock E46 M3-285F-oil temp, stock GTR?Limp mode ?oil temp, and the list goes on. Most owners pull out their cars when they start seeing these oil temps, but I guess you could keep racing if that specific model didn't go into limp mode, but most do.
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      05-29-2013, 11:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
FYI, Most if not all stock vehicle will over heat at the track, if you don't put an aftermarket oil cooler, or upgrade the stock one. 370Z, Current Mustang GT, C6 Z06, ZRI, Lexus ISF, GTR, E46 M3, you name it. Vehicle cooling systems these days are just underengineered from the factory. Manufactureres have been upping power, while leaving cooling systems untouched. Only a few stock vehicles I've seen have been ok, like the C5/C5 Z06, or the E90 M3
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Originally Posted by E90 87ss View Post
Killerfish not really sure about that. Unless its an extremely hot day and you are really pushing your car each lap without cool down laps any stock non-turbo should be fine especially if you have a manual trans.

Not saying that it's not wise to upgrade your cooling system, but its relatively misleading to make such a broad overarching generalization without any empirical data or proof... and anecdotes certainly do count as proof...
My experience correlates with his. All of my Corvettes were woefully undercooled from the factory, and in the AutoX/R section of CF, the front page is littered with reminders that radiator upgrades are paramount in any tracked C4,5,6. Ron Davis radiators got a lot of my money Same with the LS based GTO, my 996 Turbo, and now, my 328. 300* oil temps get your attention in a hurry.

I agree that sweeping generalizations are a bad idea, but unfortunately, in this case, my personal experience won't disagree with Killerfish.
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      05-29-2013, 01:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by FOM E92 View Post
My experience correlates with his. All of my Corvettes were woefully undercooled from the factory, and in the AutoX/R section of CF, the front page is littered with reminders that radiator upgrades are paramount in any tracked C4,5,6. Ron Davis radiators got a lot of my money Same with the LS based GTO, my 996 Turbo, and now, my 328. 300* oil temps get your attention in a hurry.

I agree that sweeping generalizations are a bad idea, but unfortunately, in this case, my personal experience won't disagree with Killerfish.
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      05-30-2013, 11:31 AM   #20
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I have not looked hard, but do STI's have this problem? I could see an STI HB.
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      05-30-2013, 01:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not2fast View Post
I have not looked hard, but do STI's have this problem? I could see an STI HB.
Yes...unfortunately.

And regarding NA overheating issue, it does happen. I was instructing a student in a Lamborghini Gallardo earlier this month. The ambient temp got up to upper 90s. My student was not pushing very hard, and the car overheated, and went into limp mode. When we exited the track, coolant was pouring out of the bottom of the car.
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      05-30-2013, 03:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwong View Post
Yes...unfortunately.

And regarding NA overheating issue, it does happen. I was instructing a student in a Lamborghini Gallardo earlier this month. The ambient temp got up to upper 90s. My student was not pushing very hard, and the car overheated, and went into limp mode. When we exited the track, coolant was pouring out of the bottom of the car.
+1, last fall, saw 2 lamborghini diablos over heat in person @ gingerman raceway.
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