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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > performance camshafts



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      10-07-2007, 03:09 PM   #1
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performance camshafts

would it be a good idea on 335i engine ?


have camshafts a good hp gain potential on FI engines ??


is there already a company selling them ???? thanks
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      10-07-2007, 04:11 PM   #2
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Bigger cams would benefit any type of car with supporting mods...... Its only a matter of time till a pair will be available for the N54
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      10-07-2007, 04:24 PM   #3
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i saw a set of cams at Irvine BMW in the parts department gallery, dont know what they were for though, probably the E46
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      10-07-2007, 06:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost_Nation View Post
i saw a set of cams at Irvine BMW in the parts department gallery, dont know what they were for though, probably the E46
They were for the E46 with the M54
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      10-07-2007, 07:44 PM   #5
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Bigger cams should open up the top end quite a bit on this car. I'll put them in when they are avaliable. Your MPG would go to shlt though.
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      10-08-2007, 11:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1clean335i View Post
Bigger cams would benefit any type of car with supporting mods...... Its only a matter of time till a pair will be available for the N54
What's the goal of a "performance camshaft" on an engine with double-VANOS already installed? Is it just to get more lift?
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      10-08-2007, 12:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retrodrive View Post
Your MPG would go to shlt though.
meaning??
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      10-08-2007, 03:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panoz View Post
meaning??
You would get bad gas mileage.....
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      10-08-2007, 06:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tintivilus View Post
What's the goal of a "performance camshaft" on an engine with double-VANOS already installed? Is it just to get more lift?
Why upgrade camshafts on a Honda that already has VTEC?
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      10-08-2007, 06:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1clean335i View Post
Why upgrade camshafts on a Honda that already has VTEC?
Yes, that would be an equivalent question. What's the answer?
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      10-08-2007, 07:37 PM   #11
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Because VANOS and Vtec control timing.

Larger cams will increase lift and duration.

I contacted Schrick and Kelleners a while back about cams for the N54, and both said they were working on them and should be out sometime this year. I would guess that we wont see any cams until sometime next year however.

One thing to think about though is that with these tiny little turbos your not going to see much of a gain with cams. With larger turbos there is going to be more of a difference.
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      10-08-2007, 07:47 PM   #12
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Ditto. Vanos controls only timing. Valvetronic on the N52 (not on the turbo) controls lift. Duration has to be in the grind of the cam.

Why was Valvetronic left off the N54 BTW?
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      10-08-2007, 07:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMD View Post
Ditto. Vanos controls only timing. Valvetronic on the N52 (not on the turbo) controls lift. Duration has to be in the grind of the cam.

Why was Valvetronic left off the N54 BTW?
official word was that there was no room
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      10-08-2007, 07:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson View Post
Because VANOS and Vtec control timing.

Larger cams will increase lift and duration.
So if the valves are open higher/longer (I'm guessing both have roughly equivalent functionality of letting more charge in / exhaust out?) and you get more charge into the cylinder... Shouldn't we already be running near-optimal? Is the "performance" cam allowing more intake/exhaust overlap -- hence the "MPG goes to crap" comment above?

I understand the basic geometry of how a camshaft works, but I can't picture in my head how changing the lift/dwell/timing values changes engine performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMD View Post
Valvetronic on the N52 (not on the turbo) controls lift. Duration has to be in the grind of the cam.

Why was Valvetronic left off the N54 BTW?
Everything I read sounded something like "mumble mumble marketspeak it's a turbo!" so I'm thinking they just decided it wasn't a cost-effective performance boost vs tweaking the turbo parameters a little bit.
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      10-08-2007, 08:03 PM   #15
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I think a cam would sacrifice the great driveability of the N54 engine.

Also I think the improvements to a FI engine through a differet cam would be very limited... it would be much more effective to increase boost to increase air flow to the engine.
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      10-08-2007, 08:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tintivilus View Post
I understand the basic geometry of how a camshaft works, but I can't picture in my head how changing the lift/dwell/timing values changes engine performance.

The lobes for intake/exhaust on aftermarket upgrade cams are bigger giving the cam more degree. Give the car a little more umph over stock.

Yea stock cams are pretty optimal in performance but for a 50K car theres always room for improvement.
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      10-08-2007, 08:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sambonator View Post
I think a cam would sacrifice the great driveability of the N54 engine.

Also I think the improvements to a FI engine through a differet cam would be very limited... it would be much more effective to increase boost to increase air flow to the engine.
You'd be surprised. I picked up about 30hp on my Evo with some Comp 272's and a tune for them. Some of the big turbo Evo's would pick up a lot more with some good high lift cams.

I would go for a turbo replacement before the cams on this car though.
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      10-08-2007, 08:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson View Post
Because VANOS and Vtec control timing.

Larger cams will increase lift and duration.

I contacted Schrick and Kelleners a while back about cams for the N54, and both said they were working on them and should be out sometime this year. I would guess that we wont see any cams until sometime next year however.

One thing to think about though is that with these tiny little turbos your not going to see much of a gain with cams. With larger turbos there is going to be more of a difference.
VTEC has controlled lift and duration since 1989 by using a more aggressive lobe on the same camshaft. That's OT to Vanos in our engine, though.

Still, I agree cams would be a waste on the N54.
The Evo VIII needed cams to make power. The Evo IX did not, though. With Mivec (cam timing) manipulation, my IX made 60 wheel torque on the stock cams more than my VIII did with aggressive cams. It also made the same power as a cammed VIII. This was with a Vishnu tuned IX to optimize Mivec. And Mivec on the IX is only on the intake cam.

Vanos manipulation will do heaps more for this car than aftermarket cams will. Plus it won't make it idle like crap, which is really undesirable in a BMW that is also a daily driver, IMO.
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      10-08-2007, 08:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noize View Post
VTEC has controlled lift and duration since 1989 by using a more aggressive lobe on the same camshaft. That's OT to Vanos in our engine, though.

Still, I agree cams would be a waste on the N54.
The Evo VIII needed cams to make power. The Evo IX did not, though. With Mivec (cam timing) manipulation, my IX made 60 wheel torque on the stock cams more than my VIII did with aggressive cams. It also made the same power as a cammed VIII. This was with a Vishnu tuned IX to optimize Mivec. And Mivec on the IX is only on the intake cam.

Vanos manipulation will do heaps more for this car than aftermarket cams will. Plus it won't make it idle like crap, which is really undesirable in a BMW that is also a daily driver, IMO.
I actually miss the lopey idle a bit, don't know why.
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      10-08-2007, 08:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
I actually miss the lopey idle a bit, don't know why.
Gosh, I don't. I drove a 280/272 VIII on Friday and I was glad I had the IX in between then and now.

But I think its kind of acceptable on a trackstar like an Evo. I don't even want to put an exhaust on this car yet. Maybe that'll change sometime.
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      10-08-2007, 08:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noize View Post
Gosh, I don't. I drove a 280/272 VIII on Friday and I was glad I had the IX in between then and now.

But I think its kind of acceptable on a trackstar like an Evo. I don't even want to put an exhaust on this car yet. Maybe that'll change sometime.
Yeah, I agree the lopey idle doesn't really fit this car but, I still occasionally miss it for some reason.

I have no aversion to putting an exhaust on. I just haven't heard one I like for this car yet.

Hey, on a side note is Shiv letting Andrew do custom tunes on these cars like he was for the Exede's?
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      10-08-2007, 09:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post

Hey, on a side note is Shiv letting Andrew do custom tunes on these cars like he was for the Exede's?
Not at this point. All cars are using the same maps, since the BMW ECU is so adaptable. Plus, most cars are similarly modded now, unlike Evo world. Who knows what will happen as the N54 aftermarket expands?

We are doing the Mazdapseed3 PROcede, though. Its pretty cool.
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