E90Post
 


N54Tuning.com
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > First Look: Helix FMIC Prototype



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-21-2007, 03:43 PM   #1
eric@helix
eric@helix's Avatar
United_States
135
Rep
1,168
Posts

Drives: 01 M Coupe, 08 135i, '12 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

First Look: Helix FMIC Prototype

Here are a couple of pics of the new Helix Front Mount Intercooler prototype. It is the first of two that we are testing. This intercooler design is unique in that it has a bigger frontal ambient face combined with thicker-than-stock core that seals off to the radiator fan/shroud. The cast end tanks have factory mounting points and factory charge pipe angles. We will be testing intercoolers with varying ambient and charge fin heights so we can sell the intercooler that will provide the best results. The intercooler pictured has 3/8” ambient fin height and ¼” charge fin height with 10 charge rows. the other intercooler will have ¼” ambient fin height and ¼” charge row height with 14 charge rows. Whatever variation provides the best results in temperature drop, pressure drop and recovery is the cooler we will sell.






Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 03:52 PM   #2
retrodrive
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
103
Rep
1,938
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (8)

looking forward to testing results. looks pretty cool.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 04:17 PM   #3
LKNDC
Second Lieutenant
United_States
3
Rep
260
Posts

Drives: F06 640i
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

What do you think the cost will be around?
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 04:19 PM   #4
E90Russ
Banned
9
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i Sedan (E90)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: PHX, AZ

iTrader: (0)

I remember you guys from the MINI tuning world. Definitely interested as you guys have a great reputation.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 05:27 PM   #5
AR230WAKEBOARDER
Private First Class
2
Rep
144
Posts

Drives: MONTEGO BLUE 335I
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Why?

iTrader: (0)

Looks great! I had helix test pipes on my SC g35. They had great figment and were very reasonable.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 05:45 PM   #6
1clean335i
Perf BMW mag issue 147, 159
1clean335i's Avatar
Vietnam
233
Rep
6,801
Posts

Drives: Project Estoril
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (31)

Garage List
interesting design. cant say that i've seen one like that before but will be looking forward to seeing the results
__________________
'13 Estoril Blue 335i M-sport
*Don't PM me!* Message me here- http://www.facebook.com/ProjectEstoril
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 07:25 PM   #7
dmm325
First Lieutenant
United_States
4
Rep
353
Posts

Drives: Titanium Silver E90 335i
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (6)

Send a message via AIM to dmm325
what kind of modifications, if any, will there be to get it as the front mount?
__________________
2007 E90 335i / Titanium Silver / 6-Speed / ZSP / 6FL / Turbo Tuner / Blacklines / 19 inch 5 Zigen Black with Polished Lip Sports Engines / 25% Tint
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 08:53 PM   #8
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management
Major
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management's Avatar
53
Rep
1,284
Posts

Drives: 2012 Abarth 500
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (3)

no modifications, direct bolt on!
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 08:53 PM   #9
Mattscott
Major General
Mattscott's Avatar
United_States
85
Rep
8,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i E90
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Beaumont, CA

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to Mattscott
Looks sweet guys!
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 08:54 PM   #10
BzzzBom
Major
62
Rep
1,214
Posts

Drives: 05 R53 MINI / 09 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Eric at Helix is awesome. Helix is one of the best names in the MINI tuning world. Give Eric a call. He is a super nice guy and their products are top notch.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 09:04 PM   #11
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management
Major
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management's Avatar
53
Rep
1,284
Posts

Drives: 2012 Abarth 500
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1clean335i View Post
interesting design. cant say that i've seen one like that before but will be looking forward to seeing the results
That's because you haven't seen one like that before When we were looking at the car's available captive area this idea jumped out at me as it was the only way to allow for more frontal area, increased core size and maintain the factory like seal in the radiator shroud/fan.

Last edited by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management; 09-22-2007 at 06:49 AM.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2007, 11:18 PM   #12
doba_s
Major General
doba_s's Avatar
United_States
224
Rep
6,100
Posts

Drives: GT3RS l M2 l E30 M3 l E46 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (26)

Send a message via Skype™ to doba_s
Do you have any pics with it on your car ? I would like to see some numbers ...
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2007, 02:05 AM   #13
sambonator
Samtaro!
sambonator's Avatar
United_States
63
Rep
2,563
Posts

Drives: 2014 F32 N55 Alpinweiß
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Newport Beach, CA, USA

iTrader: (6)

Looks very promising!
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2007, 03:38 PM   #14
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management
Major
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management's Avatar
53
Rep
1,284
Posts

Drives: 2012 Abarth 500
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (3)

thanks for all the great comments guys, we'll get some installed pics this week and will begin testing the 1st core once that is done we will test the 2nd core and release the data of the intercooler we will release against the stock intercooler.

Last edited by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management; 09-22-2007 at 05:29 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2007, 04:20 PM   #15
Boostin335
Major
United_States
41
Rep
1,299
Posts

Drives: sl600 z06 supra sti 996tt m3
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: North/Central NJ

iTrader: (2)

looks good
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2007, 11:09 PM   #16
Bimmer335i07
BK Employee of the month! / Moderator
Bimmer335i07's Avatar
United_States
313
Rep
15,793
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i Sedan
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ...

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Let me know if you need a e90 beta tester for any of your products. Seems like I take a drive to Philly pretty often these days. Just got back from the Philadelphia zoo today.

I would have stopped by and said hi, but I took the Navigator today and did not have your address in my nav.

See you guys soon!

Scott
__________________

Sponsored by: Pics of the ---> Barbera Beast <---
Martino Auto Concepts (Like them on Facebook MAC) Factory Trained & Authorized by BMW of North America

Matt@Camber-Toe (Like them on Facebook Camber-Toe)
LuxAngelEyes (Like them on Facebook LuxAngelEyes)
LTBMW (Like them on Facebook LTBMW)
OEMconcepts (Like them on Facebook OEMconcepts)
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2007, 03:43 AM   #17
Cadillac Johnson
Free taco with stolen base
Cadillac Johnson's Avatar
15
Rep
639
Posts

Drives: 335i? GTR? RS5?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Milwaukee

iTrader: (0)

Sorry, but that's a terrible design.

Increasing the thickness really does nothing for cooling. All this intercooler looks like it will do is increase lag and add weight.

The second half of any core (thickness) does only 1/4 of the work of cooling the charge air. Adding thickness to the core does improve efficiency, but the gains are less and less as the core gets thicker, and the downside is that it becomes harder to get the air to pass through the core. Since the same (or lesser) volume of (cooling) air passes through the core, the air first contacts and transfers heat out of the front of the intercooler, and thus is hotter by the time it reaches the back half of the intercooler's thickness, and has less (or no) capacity to absorb out additional heat from the intercooler. It also moves more slowly through the core due to the increased thickness, compared to a 3" or 3.5" thick core.
__________________
lllM
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2007, 04:00 AM   #18
LKNDC
Second Lieutenant
United_States
3
Rep
260
Posts

Drives: F06 640i
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

We will just have to wait and see the results.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2007, 04:37 AM   #19
bnj
Banned
14
Rep
1,137
Posts

Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Helsinki

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson View Post
Sorry, but that's a terrible design.

Increasing the thickness really does nothing for cooling. All this intercooler looks like it will do is increase lag and add weight.

The second half of any core (thickness) does only 1/4 of the work of cooling the charge air. Adding thickness to the core does improve efficiency, but the gains are less and less as the core gets thicker, and the downside is that it becomes harder to get the air to pass through the core. Since the same (or lesser) volume of (cooling) air passes through the core, the air first contacts and transfers heat out of the front of the intercooler, and thus is hotter by the time it reaches the back half of the intercooler's thickness, and has less (or no) capacity to absorb out additional heat from the intercooler. It also moves more slowly through the core due to the increased thickness, compared to a 3" or 3.5" thick core.
How much is the frontal area and thickness increased compared to stock? I think your assumption about the changes in the dimensions are wrong.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2007, 07:37 AM   #20
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management
Major
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management's Avatar
53
Rep
1,284
Posts

Drives: 2012 Abarth 500
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson View Post
Sorry, but that's a terrible design.

Increasing the thickness really does nothing for cooling. All this intercooler looks like it will do is increase lag and add weight.

The second half of any core (thickness) does only 1/4 of the work of cooling the charge air. Adding thickness to the core does improve efficiency, but the gains are less and less as the core gets thicker, and the downside is that it becomes harder to get the air to pass through the core. Since the same (or lesser) volume of (cooling) air passes through the core, the air first contacts and transfers heat out of the front of the intercooler, and thus is hotter by the time it reaches the back half of the intercooler's thickness, and has less (or no) capacity to absorb out additional heat from the intercooler. It also moves more slowly through the core due to the increased thickness, compared to a 3" or 3.5" thick core.
This is not merely a thicker direct fit intercooler. we increased frontal area by 56% over stock and its ambient face is bigger than the other direct fits

so by your analogy if we increase front 1/2 thickness by 56% back half thickness should have 56% less of a heat removal job to do and become 56% more effective right? keeping the back half factory like was a design element we wanted to keep as we didn't want to lose the advantage of the factory draw through fan and shroud.

increased weight? an intercooler is a heat sink if you have a cold mass of higher weight it has more of an ability to absorb heat. keeping this mass cool can be achieved in 2 ways:
increased frontal area *check*
a draw through fan *check*

moving air through the core more slowly or quickly is one design element you play with in an intercooler design, you only have the chance to cool the charge down while its IN the core, thats why we are testing 2 different cores of varying fin geometries and releasing the best design!

Last edited by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management; 09-23-2007 at 08:07 AM.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2007, 07:54 AM   #21
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management
Major
TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management's Avatar
53
Rep
1,284
Posts

Drives: 2012 Abarth 500
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnj View Post
How much is the frontal area and thickness increased compared to stock? I think your assumption about the changes in the dimensions are wrong.
frontal area and core volume are increased by approximately 56%.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2007, 10:45 AM   #22
DrH
Private
United_States
7
Rep
98
Posts

Drives: 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Decatur, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson View Post
Sorry, but that's a terrible design.

Increasing the thickness really does nothing for cooling. All this intercooler looks like it will do is increase lag and add weight.

The second half of any core (thickness) does only 1/4 of the work of cooling the charge air. Adding thickness to the core does improve efficiency, but the gains are less and less as the core gets thicker, and the downside is that it becomes harder to get the air to pass through the core. Since the same (or lesser) volume of (cooling) air passes through the core, the air first contacts and transfers heat out of the front of the intercooler, and thus is hotter by the time it reaches the back half of the intercooler's thickness, and has less (or no) capacity to absorb out additional heat from the intercooler. It also moves more slowly through the core due to the increased thickness, compared to a 3" or 3.5" thick core.
His logic seems sound.. Only results to the contrary will prove him wrong
__________________

'07 E92 335i Coupe | Monaco Blue
A/T | Paddle shifters | Sports package
| Black/Aluminum Trim
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST