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      06-17-2013, 11:09 AM   #1
FRMTL2_335i
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bms 100% e85 no meth = :(

so after getting the bms flash i started upping the e85 mix slowly and watching fuel pressure.

i went from 50/50 walbro pump no flash to
65/35 plus flash
75/25
90/10
100

i believe 75% felt the best, after that hpfp started dropping, especially at 100% e85. car runs good but it is not as strong as it was at 75 or below. terry said the fuel looks OK. but i feel like the car is pretty slow now.

i know adding meth will help, but is it really worth the upgrade for the gain? has anyone done it? is it that noticeable?


i included both logs here. 75 and 100
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      06-17-2013, 11:21 AM   #2
FRMTL2_335i
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this was 65% and the hpfp looks SOLID!
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12.3 @ 117mph (2.3 60' lol)
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      06-17-2013, 11:24 AM   #3
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how much power difference did you notice from the flash going from 50 too 75%?
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      06-17-2013, 11:39 AM   #4
FRMTL2_335i
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it was noticeable enough, car run a lot better and sounded different after loading the flash and going 65-75%
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12.3 @ 117mph (2.3 60' lol)
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      06-17-2013, 08:47 PM   #5
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I'm sticking with 75% - easy to calculate and my logs look fantastic.
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      06-17-2013, 08:50 PM   #6
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You really need the post timing correction. And why aren't you meeting your boost targets?
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      06-17-2013, 10:24 PM   #7
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I picked up around 20 whp with meth on top of 100% e85. But, I was also hitting 16.5 deg of timing at 6000 rpm and 20.5 psi at 4000 rpm. If you haven't made tuning corrections to support the change in Ethanol content, then you need to do so before you'll see any benefit of running 100% e85...
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      06-17-2013, 10:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I picked up around 20 whp with meth on top of 100% e85. But, I was also hitting 16.5 deg of timing at 6000 rpm and 20.5 psi at 4000 rpm. If you haven't made tuning corrections to support the change in Ethanol content, then you need to do so before you'll see any benefit of running 100% e85...
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      06-18-2013, 12:45 PM   #9
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Wow, you picked up HP by spraying meth over 100% e85? That is interesting as that doesn't happen on most other platforms. I wonder if it is due to the small FMIC and the meth is cooling the intake charge? E85 won't get to do that much in a DI application like the 335 as compared to most others.
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      06-18-2013, 02:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn View Post
Wow, you picked up HP by spraying meth over 100% e85? That is interesting as that doesn't happen on most other platforms. I wonder if it is due to the small FMIC and the meth is cooling the intake charge? E85 won't get to do that much in a DI application like the 335 as compared to most others.
Id imagine its mostly a result of the charge cooling, at e85 you have plenty of octane to work with. Its the frustrating thing about e85, it does a great job of in cylinder cooling, but it cant do squat for CATs, so in the Summer your DME will still want to pull out timing even if the conditions in cylinder are great. So meth becomes the bandaid there.
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      06-18-2013, 03:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I picked up around 20 whp with meth on top of 100% e85.
Is this with Cobb or your previous tune? Were you able to simply run more timing advance with meth because the DME was not reducing timing based on CAT compensations?
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      06-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn View Post
Wow, you picked up HP by spraying meth over 100% e85? That is interesting as that doesn't happen on most other platforms. I wonder if it is due to the small FMIC and the meth is cooling the intake charge? E85 won't get to do that much in a DI application like the 335 as compared to most others.
I'm running a 7" Bar & Plate HPF FMIC. Not what you would call a small FMIC...

I think the cooling on the IC is the big gain. If you have ever ran meth on this car you would know what I'm talking about as the car just responds well to meth. Things just feel so much smoother when spraying.
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      06-18-2013, 04:09 PM   #13
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No reason not see some gains on Methanol. The Intake temps drop nearly to ambient. That in turns lowers EGT's even more allowing for more potential ignition and boost accordingly.
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      06-18-2013, 04:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biz77 View Post
Is this with Cobb or your previous tune? Were you able to simply run more timing advance with meth because the DME was not reducing timing based on CAT compensations?
This was with the PROcede, but shouldn't be any different than what you would do with COBB or G5 ISO. Key is log, log, log... Small changes, log, log, log... You can make really good power with just E85, but you don't have the drop in AIT readings like you do when spraying meth which could cause the DME to pull timing even with a large FMIC.

It will be interesting with the COBB as I ramp up the car again. Terry set the bar after Shift Sector with a stock turbo car, which I think I already was higher, but I don't have a DynoJet pull to dispute his claim. But 422whp on a mustang is no joke. It really showed in my trap speeds at Shift Sector.
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      06-18-2013, 04:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
This was with the PROcede, but shouldn't be any different than what you would do with COBB or G5 ISO. Key is log, log, log... Small changes, log, log, log... You can make really good power with just E85, but you don't have the drop in AIT readings like you do when spraying meth which could cause the DME to pull timing even with a large FMIC.

It will be interesting with the COBB as I ramp up the car again. Terry set the bar after Shift Sector with a stock turbo car, which I think I already was higher, but I don't have a DynoJet pull to dispute his claim. But 422whp on a mustang is no joke. It really showed in my trap speeds at Shift Sector.
Would be interesting to see what can be done with 100% E85 and tweaking the CAT compensation tables in ATR would gain you relative to spraying meth.
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      06-18-2013, 04:58 PM   #16
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422 wheel on a Mustang is fierce on stock snails. Wow.
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      06-18-2013, 07:34 PM   #17
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422 wheel on a Mustang is fierce on stock snails. Wow.
Spanked a GTR at Shift S3ctor in April. Car was running well on Saturday.

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      06-19-2013, 08:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54gte View Post
You really need the post timing correction. And why aren't you meeting your boost targets?

which button will that be? i thought it was "Ign Advance" as i posted
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12.3 @ 117mph (2.3 60' lol)
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      06-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I picked up around 20 whp with meth on top of 100% e85. But, I was also hitting 16.5 deg of timing at 6000 rpm and 20.5 psi at 4000 rpm. If you haven't made tuning corrections to support the change in Ethanol content, then you need to do so before you'll see any benefit of running 100% e85...
there is so much i can do
im running jb4 iso with bms flash. im very limited to what i can do unless terry changes it from his end
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12.3 @ 117mph (2.3 60' lol)
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      06-19-2013, 08:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I picked up around 20 whp with meth on top of 100% e85. But, I was also hitting 16.5 deg of timing at 6000 rpm and 20.5 psi at 4000 rpm. If you haven't made tuning corrections to support the change in Ethanol content, then you need to do so before you'll see any benefit of running 100% e85...
so far map 7 is doing okay. map 5 even after a lot of pulls it will only boost 15-16psi with any mixture above 70%
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12.3 @ 117mph (2.3 60' lol)
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      06-19-2013, 12:40 PM   #21
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Without meth you are a bit limited in what you can do. 60-70% E85 is normally suggested instead of 100% E85 for those looking for a max effort as its enough to max out the system and keeps some stress off the fuel system. If you happen to have meth then you'll pickup some addl power from the lower intake temperatures and less IAT based timing reduction. Since you are a manual trans using no lift shift things are a bit different as well compared to say an automatic trans with regard to timing post shift. Overall your map 7 logs using E60+ look fine to me. If you really want more power you're going to need larger turbos.

In terms of what the N54 is capable of stock turbos I think 460rw is really the upper limit. You might be able to run 16.5degrees of advance on a single gear dyno but as soon the transmission shifts the DME is going to drop that down significantly. I'd love to see someone with a log holding 16.5 degrees of advance post shift just to know if its even possible.

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      06-19-2013, 02:20 PM   #22
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I have been contemplating Walbro or inline.. I think Terry and I are finally satisfied with my setup. 65% mix with flash and Dp's only. You can tell I am in need of an upgraded I/C, however. Here is a JPG log.
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