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      06-29-2013, 08:20 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
So when it comes time for me to go with some thing else as a replacement for E92 N54 335i cobb tuned it will be a tough choice. I am disappointed in 435i so that is out. At this time C7 Stingray appeals to me the most as an overall great bargain.
I'm actually thinking maybe E46 or even E36 M3. Or a 3.0 coupe. Or just keep the damn thing.

By the time my car is paid off hopefully it will still have enough value left in it that I wouldn't have to kick in too much money to buy an M-car or 3.0. I actually like my ex's E46 330 better than my car in some ways (but the Cobb does go a long way to make up for that) but for me, I didn't want to drop all my money on a car at once and the financing rates were low. I really do think that unless BMW turns it around and someday we'll be looking back and fighting over whether the E46 or the E9x was the last "real" 3er.
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      06-29-2013, 08:22 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Snaggletooth View Post
*stuff*
You know, I think if we were actually talking about this stuff in person we'd have a lot of common ground. And I'd buy you a beer. But I am an elitist, no Budweiser for me... it's worth a few extra pennies to not put shit in my body that tastes like the underside of an old pickup truck and makes it hurt the next day.
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      06-29-2013, 08:42 PM   #157
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You know, I think if we were actually talking about this stuff in person we'd have a lot of common ground. And I'd buy you a beer. But I am an elitist, no Budweiser for me... it's worth a few extra pennies to not put shit in my body that tastes like the underside of an old pickup truck and makes it hurt the next day.
Undoubtedly.

I hope I touched someone today with my words in all the wrong places.

I'll drink pabst or rolling rock if i'm slumming it. If not, its gut inducing IPA's and german pilsners.
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      06-29-2013, 11:24 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Snaggletooth View Post
Undoubtedly.

I hope I touched someone today with my words in all the wrong places.

I'll drink pabst or rolling rock if i'm slumming it. If not, its gut inducing IPA's and german pilsners.
Yuengling for me, best of the Pennsylvania based mass market beers IMHO.

I still remember when RR went from being a decent cheap beer to a "microbrew" and my head asploded.
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      06-30-2013, 06:39 AM   #159
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Yuengling for me, best of the Pennsylvania based mass market beers IMHO.

I still remember when RR went from being a decent cheap beer to a "microbrew" and my head asploded.
LOL- Budwizzer bought RR, stopped brewing it in Latrobe, and killed it. In a sense Latrobe RR was a microbrew...
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      06-30-2013, 10:48 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by doublevanosrc View Post
We are in an era where all marques are making very good cars, from Ford to Honda. Unfortunately BMW doesn't have the advantage it did back then(unless you go with an M). Most of today's cars all have the same recipe of turbo charged, DI, xenons, yada yada. BMW's main selling points still are rwd, great handling and of course badge snobbery comes standard. So it's not really a downgrade more of a change.
Exactly. Also I have a question for all those that say they will never own japanese... have you actally driven or owned a japanese car? I have owned 4 (3 hondas and a subaru). Nothing luxurious about the subaru (sti) but the hondas were great and ahead of their class for the time. I still have a hard time finding a new car for under 30k that can compete with my 99 Acura TL that I bought for $6k.
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      06-30-2013, 11:10 AM   #161
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Exactly. Also I have a question for all those that say they will never own japanese... have you actally driven or owned a japanese car? I have owned 4 (3 hondas and a subaru). Nothing luxurious about the subaru (sti) but the hondas were great and ahead of their class for the time. I still have a hard time finding a new car for under 30k that can compete with my 99 Acura TL that I bought for $6k.
I just can't get used to the Japanese car aesthetic... when I sit in one it just feels all wrong, whereas when I sit in a German car - especially a late 60's/early 70's one - it just feels perfect.

I'd say that the original Porsche 911 dashboard is about as damn near perfect as a dashboard can be. Honorable mention - 1956-61 Studebaker Hawk.

Also, it appears that Japanese mechanics have smaller hands than I do... I had no problems working on all my old beater VWs but just doing an oil change on an old Sentra required not only gloves but sleeves as well to keep from getting cut/scraped/burned by everything in the way.
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      06-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by N8N View Post
I just can't get used to the Japanese car aesthetic... when I sit in one it just feels all wrong, whereas when I sit in a German car - especially a late 60's/early 70's one - it just feels perfect.

I'd say that the original Porsche 911 dashboard is about as damn near perfect as a dashboard can be. Honorable mention - 1956-61 Studebaker Hawk.

Also, it appears that Japanese mechanics have smaller hands than I do... I had no problems working on all my old beater VWs but just doing an oil change on an old Sentra required not only gloves but sleeves as well to keep from getting cut/scraped/burned by everything in the way.
not all japanese cars feel the same. miatas, s2ks, nsx have great driving positions and dynamics. there's good cars and bad cars from all regions and brands.
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      06-30-2013, 12:12 PM   #163
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not all japanese cars feel the same. miatas, s2ks, nsx have great driving positions and dynamics. there's good cars and bad cars from all regions and brands.
I agree... but they still LOOK Japanese. Angular, plasticky, gimmicky, overstyled. I much prefer the understated, functional, traditional German look.

However I will say that the newer Japanese cars have much improved styling, whereas the newer German cars are appropriating some of the gimmicks etc. from other manufacturers. Pretty soon just like people our cars will all be a uniform shade of beige
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      06-30-2013, 12:16 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by N8N View Post
I agree... but they still LOOK Japanese. Angular, plasticky, gimmicky, overstyled. I much prefer the understated, functional, traditional German look.

However I will say that the newer Japanese cars have much improved styling, whereas the newer German cars are appropriating some of the gimmicks etc. from other manufacturers. Pretty soon just like people our cars will all be a uniform shade of beige
huh? angular? plasticky? gimmicky? overstyled?

what japanese cars are your talking about?
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      06-30-2013, 12:39 PM   #165
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huh? angular? plasticky? gimmicky? overstyled?

what japanese cars are your talking about?
Here's an extreme example of what I don't like about Japanese cars. There's nothing actually wrong with the car, it's a legitimately good car, but especially the interior makes me itch and vomit.

http://www.toyoland.com/cars/supra.html

This, on the other hand, is so beautiful that I have a hard time looking directly at it, because everything goes all blurry from the copious weeping:

http://bringatrailer.com/2009/01/19/...-30cs-hot-rod/

It's really just a personal aesthetic preference.
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      06-30-2013, 02:22 PM   #166
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Here's an extreme example of what I don't like about Japanese cars. There's nothing actually wrong with the car, it's a legitimately good car, but especially the interior makes me itch and vomit.

http://www.toyoland.com/cars/supra.html

This, on the other hand, is so beautiful that I have a hard time looking directly at it, because everything goes all blurry from the copious weeping:

http://bringatrailer.com/2009/01/19/...-30cs-hot-rod/

It's really just a personal aesthetic preference.
While I understand where you are coming from, your example is extreme; those are cars from different eras. For many, the 80's were a rough time from a design standpoint.

This Toyota is more like your BMW example:

and i think it's safe to say this dash on the bottom from citroen is pretty abominable

And yes, in the end, it all comes down to personal preference

-c
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      06-30-2013, 02:37 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
huh? angular? plasticky? gimmicky? overstyled?

what japanese cars are your talking about?
Here's an extreme example of what I don't like about Japanese cars. There's nothing actually wrong with the car, it's a legitimately good car, but especially the interior makes me itch and vomit.

http://www.toyoland.com/cars/supra.html

This, on the other hand, is so beautiful that I have a hard time looking directly at it, because everything goes all blurry from the copious weeping:

http://bringatrailer.com/2009/01/19/...-30cs-hot-rod/

It's really just a personal aesthetic preference.
But I will agree about the generalized unnecessary clutter and complexity of most Japanese interiors; our MDX has about 43 buttons too many on its dash

My S2k on the other hand, has no cup holders, glove box, and the radio is hidden behind a little door

-c
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      06-30-2013, 02:48 PM   #168
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While I understand where you are coming from, your example is extreme; those are cars from different eras. For many, the 80's were a rough time from a design standpoint.

This Toyota is more like your BMW example:

and i think it's safe to say this dash on the bottom from citroen is pretty abominable

And yes, in the end, it all comes down to personal preference

-c
Agree with everything you say, but the Krauts rode out the 80's better than just about everyone else (in my opinion of course) even the most angular, black-plastic Giugiaro inspired interior designs from VW or BMW were still ages better than what was coming out of Japan. And let's not even talk about American cars... color-keyed interiors and crushed velour, *shudder* no wonder everyone went to imports back then!

I find it odd that a culture that seemingly sweats the little details so much consistently gets them wrong, at least to my eye... even on something like an air vent, on an older German or especially Italian car, it will be light, elegant, and while likely actually made of plastic will appear to be metal with chrome accents. A Japanese car however will have the same part, even if similarly styled and made, done in thick, chunky plastic so a similar style that works on the Euro car will look overdone on the Japanese car. I'm thinking that it's not actually sloppy design but that there is a different aesthetic that I just don't get for some reason.

Really, the very old Japanese high end cars (like the 2000GT you posted, or even the original 240Z) I think were better styled inside while they were still mimicking Euro designs, then they kind of came into their own it seems and while it might be perfectly acceptable to Japanese tastes (and I do respect having one's own design rather than just copying something else) it doesn't work for me at all.

Edit: and what the hell kind of Citroen is that anyway? It's not only an affront to good taste, it looks like an ergonomic disaster as well.
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      06-30-2013, 05:05 PM   #169
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Agree with everything you say, but the Krauts rode out the 80's better than just about everyone else (in my opinion of course) even the most angular, black-plastic Giugiaro inspired interior designs from VW or BMW were still ages better than what was coming out of Japan. And let's not even talk about American cars... color-keyed interiors and crushed velour, *shudder* no wonder everyone went to imports back then!

I find it odd that a culture that seemingly sweats the little details so much consistently gets them wrong, at least to my eye... even on something like an air vent, on an older German or especially Italian car, it will be light, elegant, and while likely actually made of plastic will appear to be metal with chrome accents. A Japanese car however will have the same part, even if similarly styled and made, done in thick, chunky plastic so a similar style that works on the Euro car will look overdone on the Japanese car. I'm thinking that it's not actually sloppy design but that there is a different aesthetic that I just don't get for some reason.

Really, the very old Japanese high end cars (like the 2000GT you posted, or even the original 240Z) I think were better styled inside while they were still mimicking Euro designs, then they kind of came into their own it seems and while it might be perfectly acceptable to Japanese tastes (and I do respect having one's own design rather than just copying something else) it doesn't work for me at all.

Edit: and what the hell kind of Citroen is that anyway? It's not only an affront to good taste, it looks like an ergonomic disaster as well.
I absolutely agree with what you are saying; there is just something inherently different with the Japanese design aesthetic. and yes, most of us here will agree that there was/is an element of mimicry of Italian/German design...

I have no clue what model Citroen that is..google jalopnik worst car interiors/dashboards. it was a very entertaining read. some really craptastic designs...

-c
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      06-30-2013, 07:46 PM   #170
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I don't understand why you all are stuck talking about cars that were made 30 years ago and using those feelings to justify how you feel about modern cars. BMW doesn't make cars like they did in the 80s anymore. Neither does Honda, Ford, Toyota, Ferrari etc etc. Some for the better others for the worse. If everyone wrote off whole marques for 80s styling cues most car companies would have went bankrupt and closed their doors years ago.

Times have changed. This is my first BMW and I think it is a great car. A better all around car than any I have had previously but there are things that I like better about my previous cars and none of them were luxurious. When it comes time to get rid of this one if another BMW catches my eye then so be it but it could just as well be another car from a different manufacturer. Until I make it into a 7 series/S class or whatever I don't think I can legitimately worry about "downgrading".
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      06-30-2013, 08:13 PM   #171
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Non Luxury Car

Sorry, I think of my BMW as a performance car, not a luxury car. My 335i sedan is my daily driver, and I have a much more performance-oriented car for weekend use. My previous daily driver was an Infiniti G35. So to answer the question, Yes, I would go back to my Infiniti G35 if the 335i does not meet my needs. As a matter of fact, My G35i was one of the best cars I have owned.

Would I go back to a front wheel drive car, say a Honda Accord? Not likely unless I were to move to snow country. For southern locations, I will always favor the better driving performance and dynamics of RWD. Likewise, I would not go to a 4WD car.

What is the chance that the 335i will not meet my needs? The 335i still seems over-engineered to me, and I am an engineer by profession. Specific dislikes:
  1. Having to register the battery on this car. This is ridiculous and an insult to the owners intelligence.
  2. Cost of repair after the warranty expires. Even now the HPFP problem prevails. I am pretty sure that my 2011 is afflicted with this problem.
  3. Chassis could use 60 to 100 more HP, it is available but cannot be accessed without voiding the warranty.
  4. Professional audio system is crap. Unless the owner is deaf, $1500 to $2500 must be spent to upgrade the system to achieve decent sound.

Of course, the F30 is worse than the E90 in many respects. If I lost my 335i tomorrow, I would not purchase an F30 to replace it. I might purchase an Infiniti G37, if I could find a 6MT. That is the rub. I do believe that BMW will produce a better car than the F30 someday, but that is not today, or tomorrow.

Just my 2 cents.
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      06-30-2013, 10:40 PM   #172
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I would be happy with the first generation TSX manual. It is a euro Accord and besides the front wheel drive it is a fun car.

I think BMW's new strategy is to make 98% mass market vehicles and develop M models and special editions (i.e. 1M) for track junkies. P did this when they started making Cayenne and Panamera but they still offer GT3 RS etc. Unfortunately, the price may be higher than ever before.

What I like about E90 the most is chassis, steering, brakes and the potential to mod it and make it even better. There aren't many 4 door cars out there that can be modded so heavily and still be usable on street and perform well on track. This is the value of the Ultimate Driving Machine. However, new models coming out are nothing more than "above-average" appliances. When I see E30, E36, E46, E9x I know instantly it's a BMW. E39 525, 530i the same. The F3x reminds me more and more of other brands.

If BMW really wants to maintain it's leadership they need to make an LFA competitor instead of "i" citi car and stop cost cutting. Their greed for $$ and market share at the cost of poorly designed cars is disturbing. They are starting to look and feel like Toyota Co.
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      07-01-2013, 01:26 AM   #173
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Yes I had an R33 GTR and wouldn't mind going back to JDM with a 2015 R36... It's not a luxury car just expensive....
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      07-01-2013, 12:33 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtaccord View Post
I don't understand why you all are stuck talking about cars that were made 30 years ago and using those feelings to justify how you feel about modern cars. BMW doesn't make cars like they did in the 80s anymore. Neither does Honda, Ford, Toyota, Ferrari etc etc. Some for the better others for the worse. If everyone wrote off whole marques for 80s styling cues most car companies would have went bankrupt and closed their doors years ago.

Times have changed. This is my first BMW and I think it is a great car. A better all around car than any I have had previously but there are things that I like better about my previous cars and none of them were luxurious. When it comes time to get rid of this one if another BMW catches my eye then so be it but it could just as well be another car from a different manufacturer. Until I make it into a 7 series/S class or whatever I don't think I can legitimately worry about "downgrading".
Meh... when I drive my 335i it quite reminds me of the E28 535i that I had ages and ages ago. They're not the same car, no, but you can feel that they have the same DNA.

Unfortunately I have not driven a F3x yet, but from what I hear it sounds like the newer cars don't have as much of what I liked about the ones I had and have...
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