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      07-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #89
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I wouldn't mind this atrocity if BMW was still proposing exciting RWD coupes, sedans and wagon but given the turn taken by the recent 1, 3, 4 and 5 series I highly doubt so since they don't seem capable to engineer a decent electric power steering, unlike Mazda.

BMW made its reputation on driving dynamics, it used to be a company managed by enthusiasts, not the Marketing czars have take over and I am not sure it will be a success on the long run. Don't feed me with the usual "oh 90% of the customers don't even care", even if that's the case, that usually backfires when you forget where you come from, simply because you became like everyone else...

And by the way I am in Marketing
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      07-12-2013, 02:11 PM   #90
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I have something that needs to be applied to this dismal offering from BMW........

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      07-12-2013, 02:42 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Matski View Post
Maybe it's just the US market that irks me.. you only tend to get the premium models, yet I doubt it's cheaper to get to those levels in a BMW anywhere else in the world, the brand, and a consumers view of it are both on different levels compared to RoW.. I guess maybe Americans are as dumbfounded by Europeans seemingly welcoming nature to these new cars are we might be of your intolerance towards them. I don't know really, it's late.. I'm going to bed.
That is part of the frustration I think...

We are used to BMW being an affordable premium brand that is very luxurious. Leather is standard on BMWs over here, on many cars a lot of features are standard. This is what we got used to, and this is how BMW established themselves in the US - an affordable premium sport/luxury brand.

The reason so many Americans are getting upset over their adding of these new models is it is altering in a very significant way their brand image in the US. I say it a lot but BMWs used to have this feeling of exclusivity associated with them... it was perceived exclusivity more than anything, but it felt special getting into one. They were the kind of car that people aspire to own.

The problem is now they are reaching into every little market... there is no more exclusivity because they have a model that appeals to everyone and their brother. They are no longer dedicated sports driver's cars with a luxury feel. Instead of making customers come to them, they went to the customer, and long-term I think this trying to appeal to everyone WILL hurt them, at least in the US. These cars have a sort of status symbol in the US, I think most people who would buy a $100,000 7 series would change their mind if BMW is selling a minivan alongside it in a showroom... then all these potential buyers migrate to Mercedes or Audi who are maintaining their luxury name.

Just seems to me BMW is sacrificing high-end sales of quality cars in exchange for low-end sales of quantity of cars. It seems to me this will more likely than not grow the business short term but hurt it long term
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      07-12-2013, 03:09 PM   #92
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That is part of the frustration I think...

We are used to BMW being an affordable premium brand that is very luxurious. Leather is standard on BMWs over here, on many cars a lot of features are standard. This is what we got used to, and this is how BMW established themselves in the US - an affordable premium sport/luxury brand.

The reason so many Americans are getting upset over their adding of these new models is it is altering in a very significant way their brand image in the US. I say it a lot but BMWs used to have this feeling of exclusivity associated with them... it was perceived exclusivity more than anything, but it felt special getting into one. They were the kind of car that people aspire to own.

The problem is now they are reaching into every little market... there is no more exclusivity because they have a model that appeals to everyone and their brother. They are no longer dedicated sports driver's cars with a luxury feel. Instead of making customers come to them, they went to the customer, and long-term I think this trying to appeal to everyone WILL hurt them, at least in the US. These cars have a sort of status symbol in the US, I think most people who would buy a $100,000 7 series would change their mind if BMW is selling a minivan alongside it in a showroom... then all these potential buyers migrate to Mercedes or Audi who are maintaining their luxury name.

Just seems to me BMW is sacrificing high-end sales of quality cars in exchange for low-end sales of quantity of cars. It seems to me this will more likely than not grow the business short term but hurt it long term
Well if that's your perspective than I can kind of understand, but again the view over here is different... the fact that a 120,000 Audi R8 Spider, may be sat next to a 12,700 Audi A1 doesn't seem to but buyers off over here, same with the Mercedes A class, starting at 16,500 being sold alongside the SLS for 170,000.. Bimmers over here start at about 18,000, so they still have the highest entry level price, and the most expensive car would be an M6GC or 760Li at around 100,000.

I guess the perception of Luxury is not something we worry so much about, more the quality of the product, maybe Americans should worry less about how they appear, and more about what they are.

In this respect, I do worry for BMW, sustaining quality across such a rapidly expanding range of models will be difficult, and if quality starts to suffer, then I think they'll start to loose their reputation, that's the danger to me. But I think BMW are taking it seriously, the Project i thing has already had a big impact on the next range of vehicles that are already being spied (G generation 5's and 7s), the next M3/M4 they've taken a brave step to stop adding power and start doing things in a more efficient manner (lighter, more torque etc.)
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      07-12-2013, 03:19 PM   #93
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I don't mind this car, in fact the original 1-Series GT concept is well designed and I don't mind the FWD architecture on such a vehicle.

However this "Outdoor" version is ridiculous. I expected an SUV-ish version of the 1-Series GT but instead we got the EXACT SAME CAR, the only difference ITS ABILITY TO FIT TWO BICYCLES INSIDE!!!

Really, hipsters you don't need a car when you want to cycle, just ride your bikes already!

And BMW, you DON'T NEED TO DESIGN A CAR FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF...TRANSPORTING TWO BICYCLES!!! There are many ways to do that with none of this dramatic shit.

I repeat, the design and drivetrain architecture is fine with me, the reasoning behind this design however is bordering imbecile.
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      07-12-2013, 04:14 PM   #94
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I don't mind this car, in fact the original 1-Series GT concept is well designed and I don't mind the FWD architecture on such a vehicle.

However this "Outdoor" version is ridiculous. I expected an SUV-ish version of the 1-Series GT but instead we got the EXACT SAME CAR, the only difference ITS ABILITY TO FIT TWO BICYCLES INSIDE!!!

Really, hipsters you don't need a car when you want to cycle, just ride your bikes already!

And BMW, you DON'T NEED TO DESIGN A CAR FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF...TRANSPORTING TWO BICYCLES!!! There are many ways to do that with none of this dramatic shit.

I repeat, the design and drivetrain architecture is fine with me, the reasoning behind this design however is bordering imbecile.
Lol, yeah, I agree with this, not so much a bout the bike storage thing since I could almost see me using that kind of thing... but really I think this was unveiled just to keep interest going.. I genuinely thought it would be the XL/7 Seat/LWB version when it was announced...
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      07-12-2013, 04:51 PM   #95
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This is just getting from bad to worse.

This car is perfect! For older wealthy couples who like biking, and care nothing about driving dynamics, BMWs or cars in general.
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      07-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #96
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For those that are concerned regarding exclusivity? You should watch that CNBC documentary inside BMW because you get the answer .
It is not the answer you may want to hear but it is the official answer.

The Active Tourer will come to the USA as there is an established segment, there will be further FWD BMWs offered as well as you are beginning to see a more expansive BMW market in the US with recently launched cars such as the 320i and of course further inclusion of diesel.
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      07-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #97
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The Active Tourer will come to the USA as there is an established segment, there will be further FWD BMWs offered as well as you are beginning to see a more expansive BMW market in the US with recently launched cars such as the 320i and of course further inclusion of diesel.
SCOTT, is the plan still to launch all of these FWD products with a 1 Series badge? Or can the modular matrix accommodate a wide range of vehicle sizes, the larger of which possibly fitting better in the 3 Series lineup (or others)?

Already the 1 AT XL seems like it is getting fairly big as compared to an F20 for example. And in some markets, particularly the US, I can see larger seven-seat BMWs being in high demand. Obviously you can build RWD seven seaters too, but the FWD layout has clear advantages in space efficiency.

I guess what I am saying is, it seems that at some point in time, larger FWD BMWs will be inevitable.
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      07-12-2013, 07:18 PM   #98
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For those that are concerned regarding exclusivity? You should watch that CNBC documentary inside BMW because you get the answer .
It is not the answer you may want to hear but it is the official answer.

The Active Tourer will come to the USA as there is an established segment, there will be further FWD BMWs offered as well as you are beginning to see a more expansive BMW market in the US with recently launched cars such as the 320i and of course further inclusion of diesel.
I have seen that documentary several times. What the guy said was that customers didn't care as long as the product was good. Thats all well and good, but you have custmers that are complaining about the lack of exclusivity as well as the product itself. Refering us to a guy whose job to paint a rosy picture of BMW is actually a little bit insulting.
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      07-12-2013, 07:45 PM   #99
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This car is perfect! For older wealthy couples who like biking, and care nothing about driving dynamics, BMWs or cars in general.

I guess. But I don't like that BMW is offering something like this. Car companies are all about amount of sales nowadays...
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      07-12-2013, 09:12 PM   #100
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I guess. But I don't like that BMW is offering something like this. Car companies are all about amount of sales nowadays...
Everywhere else in the world, BMW, MB, Audi sell a huge range of vehicles. I don't have any problems with them doing the same here in the USA. As has already been said, people over the rest of the world don't have a problem with a very expensive car sitting next to an inexpensive one in a showroom. I don't buy a vehicle to one-up my neighbor...I buy one because it fits my needs. I could care less what others think about it. If you've got lots of expendable income, and want to get noticed, buy something like a Bently, or for a little more flare, maybe a Lambo, both of which have needed to be bailed out because of market swings and issues, that, bar GM and Chrysler who were making crappy cars, most other big car companies cater to a much larger market range. People screamed bloody murder when Porsche came out with their suv, and their lower end cars...long live the 911 - to the 'purists', that is the only model they should have ever made...if they did, they'd be out of business now.

The goal should be good quality and as long as you can maintain that, why not bring it to more people with different needs and expectations.
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      07-13-2013, 04:25 PM   #101
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Everywhere else in the world, BMW, MB, Audi sell a huge range of vehicles. I don't have any problems with them doing the same here in the USA. As has already been said, people over the rest of the world don't have a problem with a very expensive car sitting next to an inexpensive one in a showroom. I don't buy a vehicle to one-up my neighbor...I buy one because it fits my needs. I could care less what others think about it. If you've got lots of expendable income, and want to get noticed, buy something like a Bently, or for a little more flare, maybe a Lambo, both of which have needed to be bailed out because of market swings and issues, that, bar GM and Chrysler who were making crappy cars, most other big car companies cater to a much larger market range. People screamed bloody murder when Porsche came out with their suv, and their lower end cars...long live the 911 - to the 'purists', that is the only model they should have ever made...if they did, they'd be out of business now.

The goal should be good quality and as long as you can maintain that, why not bring it to more people with different needs and expectations.

Overall, that's true. But I don't like that BMW, MB and Audi are trying to make a vehicle for everyone out there. The main reason for that though is to sell less powerful and more efficient engines to meet the average fleet consumptions that are required in the EU and also in the US soon. By raising the amount of different models (mostly lower end models) they can lower the fleet MPG while still offering V8's in the M division. So if it takes BMW Vans so that we can still enjoy the M's, so be it.
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      07-13-2013, 08:06 PM   #102
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Overall, that's true. But I don't like that BMW, MB and Audi are trying to make a vehicle for everyone out there. The main reason for that though is to sell less powerful and more efficient engines to meet the average fleet consumptions that are required in the EU and also in the US soon. By raising the amount of different models (mostly lower end models) they can lower the fleet MPG while still offering V8's in the M division. So if it takes BMW Vans so that we can still enjoy the M's, so be it.
They've been doing it since inception in Europe and the rest of the world...they decided to market as a premium sedan here, which kept them from competing with things like a Pinto, Vega, etc. which, back then, was also burdened with a hefty import duty. Competing close on price point, is one thing, offering a similar car (albeit, probably significantly better build quality) at the low end meant it was MUCH easier to establish themselves here only in the premium range where there wasn't really much competition - American cars, built for our flat, wide, roads and low speed limits, just didn't and still doesn't need the engineering required to run flat out at max speed for hours on the Autobahn. As US manufacturers try to really become global with (as close as possible) the same model, we're starting to push, but for the most part, are still a ways apart leaving BMW, Audi, MB their opening. Snob appeal is one thing, good for the right technical reasons is another. Over the years, they've been expanding both down and up-range. It should be no surprise if you think about it.
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      07-14-2013, 01:53 PM   #103
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      07-14-2013, 04:46 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgroschi View Post
Overall, that's true. But I don't like that BMW, MB and Audi are trying to make a vehicle for everyone out there. The main reason for that though is to sell less powerful and more efficient engines to meet the average fleet consumptions that are required in the EU and also in the US soon. By raising the amount of different models (mostly lower end models) they can lower the fleet MPG while still offering V8's in the M division. So if it takes BMW Vans so that we can still enjoy the M's, so be it.
Emissions is definitely part of the reason why, but BMW sells quite a few non-M cars for every M car they sell, and with their 4 cylinder turbo and other efficient powerplants in their non-Ms, they are doing well at keeping their emissions average low. For every one M3 they sell I imagine they have to sell at least 2-3 non-Ms.

So as far as I can tell the biggest reason for doing this is still just to try to reach more markets. It will certainly give them a bigger buffer to be selling more and more high-efficiency cars, but I dont think thats a sole driving force behind this move to niche markets.

And Mini is factored into BMW's emissions as well.
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      07-14-2013, 05:07 PM   #105
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Quote:
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Two bikes and camping gear for two people for two weeks...

Why would you put it on the roof if you can put it in the boot?
So that people with kids can take them along as opposed, say, not taking them along, or having them ride on the roof...
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      07-15-2013, 10:26 AM   #106
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      07-15-2013, 10:31 AM   #107
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There is something quite funny about carrying two rear wheel drive devices around in a front wheel drive car... The RWD is there in spirit
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      07-15-2013, 10:53 AM   #108
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with every day passing by I feel great switching to Audi....
Enjoy your VW
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      07-15-2013, 11:00 AM   #109
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I think it looks great, from the exterior to the interior. It seems purposeful, I'm not bicyclists but I like the setup. I've always had an issue with the way BMW designs their radio and hvac areas; this looks fantastic. It's a shame it wont be exactly like this when released though.

I do understand where some of you are coming from, wondering what direction BMW is going. But, if any of you own a business or understand business, you should understand the need for BMW to explore other avenues. At the end of the day they are in business to make money for themselves and the shareholders. It is what it is!
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      07-15-2013, 02:58 PM   #110
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I actually think it looks great!
Much better so than the 1 series.
But, how big is this thing, like something in between a 1 and, almost a 1GT?
This could do well imo.
As for the bilde hinge, i'm on the fence on that one.
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